Arabic Layout Task Force Teleconference

Behnam: Opening the meeting with checking the action items.

<Behnam> http://www.w3.org/International/groups/arabic-layout/track/actions/open

<Behnam> najib, can you hear us?

Behnam: First action is action-7 for Najib.

Najib: For glossary it was to move the translations from Azzedine's list to our main glossary sheet
... it's not always copy/paste. Adaptation is needed.

<najib> run-in heading vs running heads ?

Najib: there are some confusions about some of the terms; e.g. "running heading", "running head"

Status review of action items from previous meeting

Richard: "running head": header of the page, "running heading": beginning of the paragraph.

Najib: For doing the pull request, there is some instructions needed.

<najib> If special instructions are needed...

Action for Shervin to write Github pull request instruction

<trackbot> Error finding 'for'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/International/groups/arabic-layout/track/users>.

Action Shervin to write Github pull request instruction

<trackbot> Created ACTION-38 - Write github pull request instruction [on Shervin Afshar - due 2015-12-15].

<Behnam> So, we can go with this order: http://www.w3.org/International/groups/arabic-layout/track/actions/open?sort=owner

<Behnam> ScribeNick: Behnam

<Shervin> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1nSxYKQm_mKroCmxU4fyJ-g70Eo1_mF89yHZg8YNOuzc/edit

Shervin: Still working on ACTION-16
... Re ACTION-29, I've been working on the Persian side.
... can convert it to HTML sometime next time
... Still working on the other actions

<Shervin> ScribeNick: Shervin

Waseem: I connected with a friend in the region. Going to receive hard copies in the mail.

<Behnam> close action-22

<trackbot> Closed action-22.

Behnam: Going to send pull request for Action-23.

<mostafa> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1TSA1Ju70FaMzUD2EXTgMnZtjszPKBeGj5O8FtXy9SqA/edit#

Mostafa: Action-24 drafting in progress. The only missing part is the ligatures.

<Behnam> close action-34

<trackbot> Closed action-34.

Mostafa: Action-34 can be closed as he put the comments on Github.

Behnam: General comment for everybody; agree on a font to use and have it for all the examples.
... Which font Mostafa is using in his examples?

Mostafa: It's Mitra for the images.
... On Github issue there are comments in this regard.
... We can change the typeface when we agree on the font.

Behnam: We can discuss the Github issues later.

Richard: To Mostafa regarding ligatures section. There are some controversy regarding what is a ligature or not; Lam-Alef being a ligature or not.

Mostafa: Heard things about it. Not sure how to address that.
... All the technical documents call it "ligature".

Shervin: Mandatory vs. Optional ligature, but all ligatures. We can note that.

Richard: Ligated forms?

Mostafa: Optional ligatures are not in my plan.

Shervin: Thinks we should follow what other communities are calling them "ligature".
... For those experts who don't think these are ligatures we can have a note.

Behnam: Not sure we are all on the same page; we can call them all ligatures, but not sure that we are on the same page regarding optional vs. mandatory.

<Behnam> Shervin: I agree. The intention is not to call any of the ligatures mandatory, and that's a different discussion.

<Behnam> 1+

Mostafa: We need to denote mandatory vs. optional in details. Depends on font, etc.

Behnam: We have a consensus on calling these ligatures and have a note in regards to issues of definition.

<Behnam> close action-20

<trackbot> Closed action-20.

Glossary status

Behnam: Opening glossary status topics

Richard: Regarding diacritic in the glossary; for those audience who can read Arabic letters, but can not pronounce it.
... It's extra work, but it would be useful for some experts.

Najib: Not inclined to put the diacritic on all the letters. It overloads the words and writing. In Arabic text is marked with full diacritic when it's in Quran.
... scholarly books to be read by people who are not native Arabic speakers.
... For ambiguity we put the specific diacritics on letters needed.

<Waseem> +1

Richard: Not talking about general text. Just about the keywords in the glossary.
... Transliteration might be easier.
... just key glossary terms and not the text.

Najib: Which are key words?

Richard: Only the terms in the glossary.

Behnam: For all the terms and not a subset?

Richard: Correct.

<r12a> q

Behnam: Kind of agreeing with Najib. Separate column for pronounciation.
... Not much hard in having them.
... for native speakers it's not usual.

Richard: How dictionaries look like in Persian?

Behnam: The word comes first and the the diacritic separately.

<Behnam> http://parsi.wiki/dehkhodasearchresult-fa.html?searchtype=0&word=2LXZhtmF

http://www.vajehyab.com/?q=%D8%B9%D9%85%D8%B1

Richard: It would be easier to have transliterations.

Shervin: Talking about the common trends for documenting pronounciation

Richard: In comparison to only letters with diacritics, transliteration is preferred.
... If the main use-case is to have it for people who don't speak Arabic, transliteration is better.

<najib> +1 to Richard

Waseem: Agrees regarding having transliterations. We can cover a larger audience.
... It would be easier for them to use this glossary.

Behnam: Have a consensus regarding having transliteration.

Shervin: I need to look at semi-automatic solution.

<r12a> http://r12a.github.io/pickers/arabic/

Mostafa: Agrees with the approach on scripting, having two entries in case of ambiguity.

Richard: Have a tool for producing transliterations.
... Need to have diacritics.
... we need to be consistent about the method of transliteration.

Behnam: Anyone wants to take an action for this?
... The action we want to have is for add a column for transliteration.

<Behnam> Shervin: Can we agree on finishing the glossary work for now and then get to the transliteration step?

<Behnam> +1

<najib> +1

Behnam: priority is first finish the glossary for priority one and two.

<Behnam> ACTION: Najib to lead the discussion on having transliteration/pronunciation columns in the glossary [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/12/08-alreq-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-39 - Lead the discussion on having transliteration/pronunciation columns in the glossary [on Najib Tounsi - due 2015-12-15].

<mostafa> +1

Review of Github issues

https://github.com/w3c/alreq/issues/

Behnam: Going through GH issues.
... Issue 21 and 16 are related.
... Discussing Issue 15.

Najib: Still working on the draft. Trying to add a section on the font and relation to typography.

Behnam: Discussing Issue 14.

Mostafa: Being drafted.

Behnam: Discussing Issue 13.

Mostafa: Ongoing discussion. To gather style issues.

Behnam: Discussing Issue 12.
... Should we keep this open?

Richard: We can close Issue 12.

Behnam: Issue 10. Keeping open for when we get to special cases.
... Issue 9 is dupe. Should be marked.

<Behnam> Behnam: Issue 8, any updates on the data source, CLDR or something else?

Shervin: Still ongoing. Going to do a pull request.

Richard: Issue with Kaf with dots.

Shervin: Please file an issue and Shervin will look into the details.

Mostafa: Issue 5, 4, 3 are to discuss topics.
... Close after we added the content.

+1

Behnam: Moving to next agenda item.

Drafting status

Behnam: Drafting topic.

Mostafa: Two chapters are close to pull request.
... Not going to pay much attention to the style
... We can adopt the style when we have a consenus.

Behnam: General direction of images. Better to keep the direction of images left to right.

Mostafa: There are cases that it can be a problem.'

<mostafa> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1TSA1Ju70FaMzUD2EXTgMnZtjszPKBeGj5O8FtXy9SqA/edit#

Mostafa: In last image in joining section, having them from left to right doesn't make much sense.

Behnam: We might need to change equal sign to arrow or something.

Waseem: Wanted to start a different topic. Not having much time to contribute. I would like to contribute to a topic.
... Bidi text in UI and best practices and problems and issues.
... It's common to see a mixture of Arabic and English in UIs. Wanted to cover a topic for that>

Richard: The group can use me as a resource for the bidi issues.
... Mostafa's example is confusing to understand if we're composing or decomposing.
... My experience is it's better to go right to left for examples and images; even with arrows.
... Consistency matters as usual.
... Regarding what Waseem mentioned;
... I'm totally interested to hearing those, but the document might not be a good place for these.
... A little concerned the right thing for this document.

Najib: The example with equal sign might be confusing.
... Add arrow.

Waseem: Regarding Richard's observation. We can discuss the topic on next call.

<Behnam> http://unicode.org/reports/tr9/

Behnam: Step away from transferring information with arrow or equal sign.
... Be explicit in draft and write things down.

Mostafa: Regarding what Waseem mentioned. The UI is important but currently not in the list of topics. It's similar to issue of Quran (special pages).

<Behnam> +1

Mostafa: It might need it's own section or adding a topic to current list of topics.

Behnam: Closing the meeting.