XForms Users Community Group Teleconference -- 21 Oct 2015

<trackbot> Date: 21 October 2015

Steven: Welcome Mark

Mark: I'm in a noisy environment
... I was a WG member some time ago, from the life assurance industry. Now I'm in archeology, but still working with forms and apps
... Steven asked me to get involved with the user group.
... I'm based in Edinburgh

XForms day 5th Nov

http://xmlamsterdam.com/2015/pre-conference

Steven: still ongoing, looks good; you are all welcome! :-)

Community Wiki

https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2015Oct/0015.html

Steven: How easy is it to move? Copy and paste?

Erik: Yes, we can just create a copy of the content, same wiki engine.
... moving the history would be hard

Steven: We'll make sure the old wiki remains

Nick: We would also have to change the scripts to generate the specs
... that is not a trivial operation
... it may be just hardcoding the URL
... it needs looking at

Steven: Can I ask you to do that?

Nick: I have a big deadline at the moment

Steven: There's no rush for that at the moment.

Nick: After the deadline I'll take a look at him

<scribe> ACTION: Nick to look at scripts for generating spec, and change URL for source wiki [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/10/21-forms-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-2037 - Look at scripts for generating spec, and change url for source wiki [on Nick Van Den Bleeken - due 2015-10-28].

<scribe> ACTION: Steven to move content to new wiki [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/10/21-forms-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-2038 - Move content to new wiki [on Steven Pemberton - due 2015-10-28].

public-xformsusers

Steven: Mark is nominally chair of the Users Group

Mark: I think a list of implementations would be a good first publication. I have made a start
... removing dead projects.
... In November I'll have more time to work on it, but it would be good to have information about how the implementations are being used.
... I have a list based on what was sent me earlier

Steven: Do you have that list to hand?

Mark: I don't have it with me

Steven: Can you send it to us?

Mark: Sure.

<scribe> ACTION: Mark to send list of implementations [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/10/21-forms-minutes.html#action03]

<trackbot> 'Mark' is an ambiguous username. Please try a different identifier, such as family name or username (e.g., tingenek, mseaborn4).

<scribe> ACTION: MarkS to send list of implementations [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/10/21-forms-minutes.html#action04]

<trackbot> Error finding 'MarkS'. You can review and register nicknames at <https://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/xforms/users>.

<scribe> ACTION: mseaborn4 to send list of implementation [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/10/21-forms-minutes.html#action05]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-2039 - Send list of implementation [on Mark Seaborne - due 2015-10-28].

Mark: I thought it would be good to ocument some projects where XForms are used.
... It would be good to document the diversity of usage
... it is clearly still being used, and we should document those.

Steven: How could we approach that? Send some examples?

Mark: Yes. Just a bald statement of which projects we know about would be a good start, and we could fill that in.
... It would be a good idea to put the XForms day on the wiki, maybe I should that first.
... I shall do that.

Steven: Any other ideas from anybody?

Mark: Some design patterns, for managing common problems.

Philip: I agree. Two projects I'm involved with, you see a range of solving problems, I could get involved with providing some input for that.

Steven: Maybe if we all send a list of patterns and techniques we would like to see documented.

<nvdbleek> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2015Apr/0008

<nvdbleek> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2014Oct/0044.html

Backwards compatibility

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2014Oct/0044.html

Nick: What do we do if XPath 2 produces different results? Do we need a way to switch to XPath 1 compatibility mode?
... We have a flag maybe in XForms 2.0 to use XPath 1, maybe, let me check

<nvdbleek> https://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/wiki/XPath_Expressions_Module#xpath-version-attribute

Nick: Yes, there is a flag, see link

Steven: Would this solve it?

Nick: I think so.

Erik: I've never used XPath 1.0 with XForms! So I'm not quite sure what people expect, but it would be good to have compatibility.
... So we allow the use of an XPath 1 implementation, or XPath 2 in compatibility mode. We should try to maximise the compatibility.
... In XForms 2, we get type information from the instance, but in XForms 1 we often have to cast to the type we want.
... my suggestion is that in XPath 2 backwards compatible mode that we do NOT provide the type information, so that it would be MORE backwards compatible
... and we shoukd add something to that effect

ACTION Erik; To add wording about XPath 2 backwards comaptibility mode not providing type information

<trackbot> Error finding 'Erik;'. You can review and register nicknames at <https://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/xforms/users>.

ACTION Eric; To add wording about XPath 2 backwards compatibility mode not providing type information

<trackbot> Error finding 'Eric;'. You can review and register nicknames at <https://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/xforms/users>.

<scribe> ACTION: Erik To add wording about XPath 2 backwards compatibility mode not providing type information [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/10/21-forms-minutes.html#action06]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-2040 - Add wording about xpath 2 backwards compatibility mode not providing type information [on Erik Bruchez - due 2015-10-28].

https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2014Oct/0041.html

includenamespaceprefixes

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2014Oct/0041.html

Steven: Did we deal with this?

Nick: I remember an action item for it
... but I have an issue
... I sent a reply
... not sure if I can find it

Erik: It was about element creation, but this is a different issue

http://www.w3.org/2014/11/12-forms-minutes.html#item02

ACTION-1986?

<trackbot> ACTION-1986 -- Erik Bruchez to Investigate dealing with excess namespace nodes in section 3.2 the instance element -- due 2014-11-19 -- OPEN

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/xforms/actions/1986

Steven: So I found the earlier discussion, and we didn't resolve it, which is why it's still here.

Erik: We have made the changes; "If the initial instance data is given by inline content, then instance data is obtained as follows:

A detached copy of the first child element of the instance element is created and placed within a new document node. The copied element becomes the root element of a new XML document.

If needed, namespace nodes are copied to that detached root element as described below."

<ebruchez> https://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/wiki/XForms_2.0#The_instance_Element

Close ACTION-1986

<trackbot> Closed ACTION-1986.

Steven: So we are done; we solved it.

Erik: I don't know if this answers Alain's question

Alain: Yes

Steven: Then we are done for today.

[ADJOURN]

- DRAFT -

XForms Users Community Group Teleconference

21 Oct 2015

Attendees

Contents

XForms day 5th Nov

Community Wiki

public-xformsusers

Backwards compatibility

includenamespaceprefixes

Summary of Action Items

Scribe.perl diagnostic output