IRC log of forms on 2015-10-21

Timestamps are in UTC.

12:56:04 [RRSAgent]
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logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/10/21-forms-irc
12:56:06 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
12:56:06 [Zakim]
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12:56:08 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be
12:56:08 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
12:56:09 [trackbot]
Meeting: XForms Users Community Group Teleconference
12:56:09 [trackbot]
Date: 21 October 2015
12:56:25 [Steven_]
Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2015Oct/0016
12:56:53 [Steven_]
Steven_ has changed the topic to: Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2015Oct/0016
12:56:58 [Steven_]
Chair: Steven
13:01:33 [alain]
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13:03:17 [Steven_]
Present: Steven, Erik, Alain, Nick, Philip, Mark
13:03:53 [Steven_]
Steven: Welcome Mark
13:04:26 [Steven_]
Mark: I'm in a noisy environment
13:05:07 [Steven_]
... I was a WG member some time ago, from the life assurance industry. Now I'm in archeology, but still working with forms and apps
13:05:26 [Steven_]
... Steven asked me to get involved with the user group.
13:05:33 [Steven_]
... I'm based in Edinburgh
13:05:54 [Steven_]
Topic: XForms day 5th Nov
13:05:54 [Steven_]
http://xmlamsterdam.com/2015/pre-conference
13:06:09 [Steven_]
Steven: still ongoing, looks good; you are all welcome! :-)
13:06:39 [Steven_]
Topic: Community Wiki
13:06:39 [Steven_]
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2015Oct/0015.html
13:07:44 [Steven_]
Steven: How easy is it to move? Copy and paste?
13:08:02 [Steven_]
Erik: Yes, we can just create a copy of the content, same wiki engine.
13:08:14 [Steven_]
... moving the history would be hard
13:08:32 [Steven_]
Steven: We'll make sure the old wiki remains
13:08:46 [Steven_]
Nick: We would also have to change the scripts to generate the specs
13:09:15 [Steven_]
... that is not a trivial operation
13:09:27 [Steven_]
... it may be just hardcoding the URL
13:09:31 [Steven_]
... it needs looking at
13:09:48 [Steven_]
Steven: Can I ask you to do that?
13:09:59 [Steven_]
Nick: I have a big deadline at the moment
13:10:12 [Steven_]
Steven: There's no rush for that at the moment.
13:10:29 [Steven_]
Nick: After the deadline I'll take a look at him
13:10:53 [Steven_]
ACTION: Nick to look at scripts for generating spec, and change URL for source wiki
13:10:53 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-2037 - Look at scripts for generating spec, and change url for source wiki [on Nick Van Den Bleeken - due 2015-10-28].
13:11:11 [Steven_]
ACTION: Steven to move content to new wiki
13:11:12 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-2038 - Move content to new wiki [on Steven Pemberton - due 2015-10-28].
13:11:38 [Steven_]
Topic: public-xformsusers
13:12:32 [Steven_]
Steven: Mark is nominally chair of the Users Group
13:12:49 [Steven_]
Mark: I think a list of implementations would be a good first publication. I have made a start
13:12:59 [Steven_]
... removing dead projects.
13:13:25 [Steven_]
... In November I'll have more time to work on it, but it would be good to have information about how the implementations are being used.
13:13:55 [Steven_]
... I have a list based on what was sent me earlier
13:14:04 [Steven_]
Steven: Do you have that list to hand?
13:14:25 [Steven_]
Mark: I don't have it with me
13:14:31 [Steven_]
Steven: Can you send it to us?
13:14:37 [Steven_]
Mark: Sure.
13:14:54 [Steven_]
ACTION: Mark to send list of implementations
13:14:54 [trackbot]
'Mark' is an ambiguous username. Please try a different identifier, such as family name or username (e.g., tingenek, mseaborn4).
13:15:04 [Steven_]
ACTION: MarkS to send list of implementations
13:15:04 [trackbot]
Error finding 'MarkS'. You can review and register nicknames at <https://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/xforms/users>.
13:15:36 [Steven_]
ACTION: mseaborn4 to send list of implementation
13:15:36 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-2039 - Send list of implementation [on Mark Seaborne - due 2015-10-28].
13:16:18 [Steven_]
Mark: I thought it would be good to ddocument some projects where XForms are used.
13:16:23 [Steven_]
s/dd/
13:16:33 [Steven_]
Mark: It would be good to document the diversity of usage
13:16:57 [Steven_]
... it is clearly still being used, and we should document those.
13:17:22 [Steven_]
Steven: How could we approach that? Send some examples?
13:18:29 [Steven_]
Mark: Yes. Just a bald statement of which projects we know about would be a good start, and we could fill that in.
13:18:59 [Steven_]
... It would be a good idea to put the XForms day on the wiki, maybe I should that first.
13:19:04 [Steven_]
... I shall do that.
13:19:24 [Steven_]
Steven: Any other ideas from anybody?
13:19:46 [Steven_]
Mark: Some design patterns, for managing common problems.
13:20:44 [Steven_]
Philip: I agree. Two projects I'm involved with, you see a range of solving problems, I could get involved with providing some input for that.
13:21:15 [Steven_]
Steven: Maybe if we all send a list of patterns and techniques we would like to see documented.
13:27:15 [nvdbleek]
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13:27:25 [nvdbleek]
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2015Apr/0008
13:28:07 [nvdbleek]
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2014Oct/0044.html
13:28:19 [Steven_]
Topic: Backwards compatibility
13:28:19 [Steven_]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2014Oct/0044.html
13:29:39 [Steven_]
Nick: What do we do if XPath 2 produces different results? Do we need a way to switch to XPath 1 compatibility mode?
13:30:14 [Steven_]
... We have a flag maybe in XForms 2.0 to use XPath 1, maybe, let me check
13:30:40 [nvdbleek]
https://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/wiki/XPath_Expressions_Module#xpath-version-attribute
13:31:32 [Steven_]
Nick: Yes, there is a flag, see link
13:31:37 [Steven_]
Steven: Would this solve it?
13:31:43 [Steven_]
Nick: I think so.
13:32:34 [Steven_]
Erik: I've never used XPath 1.0 with XForms! So I'm not quite sure what people expect, but it would be god to have compatibility.
13:32:42 [Steven_]
s/god/good/
13:33:34 [Steven_]
Erik: So we allow the use of an XPath 1 implementation, or XPath 2 in compatibility mode. We shpould try to maximise the compatibility.
13:33:41 [Steven_]
s/shp/sh
13:35:04 [Steven_]
Erik: In XForms 2, we get type information from the instance, but in XForms 1 we often have to cast to the type we want.
13:36:19 [Steven_]
... my suggestion is that in XPath 2 backwards compatible mode that we do NOT provide the type information, so that it would be MORE backwards compatible
13:36:33 [Steven_]
... and we shoukd add something to that effect
13:36:56 [Steven_]
ACTION Erik; To add working about XPath 2 backwards comaptibility mode not providing type information
13:36:56 [trackbot]
Error finding 'Erik;'. You can review and register nicknames at <https://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/xforms/users>.
13:37:03 [Steven_]
s/working/wording/
13:37:28 [Steven_]
ACTION Eric; To add wording about XPath 2 backwards compatibility mode not providing type information
13:37:28 [trackbot]
Error finding 'Eric;'. You can review and register nicknames at <https://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/xforms/users>.
13:37:50 [Steven_]
ACTION: Erik To add wording about XPath 2 backwards compatibility mode not providing type information
13:37:50 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-2040 - Add wording about xpath 2 backwards compatibility mode not providing type information [on Erik Bruchez - due 2015-10-28].
13:39:14 [Steven_]
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2014Oct/0041.html
13:39:37 [Steven_]
Topic: includenamespaceprefixes
13:39:37 [Steven_]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2014Oct/0041.html
13:39:44 [Steven_]
Steven: Did we deal with this?
13:39:55 [Steven_]
Nick: I remember an action item for it
13:39:59 [Steven_]
... but I have an issue
13:40:20 [Steven_]
... I sent a reply
13:41:03 [Steven_]
... not sure if I can find it
13:41:22 [Steven_]
Erik: It was about element creation, but this is a different issue
13:42:46 [Steven_]
http://www.w3.org/2014/11/12-forms-minutes.html#item02
13:43:14 [Steven_]
ACTION-1986?
13:43:14 [trackbot]
ACTION-1986 -- Erik Bruchez to Investigate dealing with excess namespace nodes in section 3.2 the instance element -- due 2014-11-19 -- OPEN
13:43:14 [trackbot]
https://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/xforms/actions/1986
13:47:22 [Steven_]
Steven: So I found the earlier discussion, and we didn't resolve it, which is why it's still here.
13:49:41 [Steven_]
Erik: We have made the changes; "If the initial instance data is given by inline content, then instance data is obtained as follows:
13:49:41 [Steven_]
A detached copy of the first child element of the instance element is created and placed within a new document node. The copied element becomes the root element of a new XML document.
13:49:41 [Steven_]
If needed, namespace nodes are copied to that detached root element as described below."
13:49:42 [ebruchez]
https://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/wiki/XForms_2.0#The_instance_Element
13:49:55 [Steven_]
Close ACTION-1986
13:49:55 [trackbot]
Closed ACTION-1986.
13:50:08 [Steven_]
Steven: So we are done; we solved it.
13:51:17 [Steven_]
Erik: I don't know if this answers Alain's question
13:51:51 [Steven_]
Alain: Yes
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13:52:56 [Steven_]
Steven: Then we are done for today.
13:53:00 [Steven_]
[ADJOURN]
13:53:06 [Steven_]
rrsagent, make minutes
13:53:06 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/10/21-forms-minutes.html Steven_
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