W3C

- MINUTES -

Education and Outreach Working Group Teleconference

17 Jul 2015

Summary

EOWG met to discuss the comments that participants submitted this week and to resolve any outstanding issues. Discussion led to the following resolutions:

  1. Showcase with videos task force work statement is approved as amended (with clarification of TF member roles).
  2. Include most of the Tips for Design. Exceptions were to omit tip about images of text and to table tip on alt text for images until other Tips are complete and final determination can be made.
  3. Include an example for Spacing and Headings (Designing) and leave the current draft open to refine and improve.
  4. For the QuickRef prototype, retain design that has panel on left with tab for content and tab for filters.
Additional comments included Shawn's reminder to stay on top of the EO Work for this Week to help Kevin determine which ideas to proceed with. There were also shouts of "Bravo" for updates to QuickRef.

Agenda

Attendees

Present
Brent, Sharron, Kevin, Vicki, EricE, Shadi, Shawn, George, Andrew
Regrets
Emmanuelle, Reinaldo, Lydia, Paul, MaryJo, Sylvie, AnnaBelle, Wayne
Chair
Shawn
Scribe
Sharron

Contents


Showcase Task Force

Shawn: Last week we had unanimous approval of work statement

<shawn> survey results: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35532/EOWG-29June2015/results#xq1

Shadi: All comments in the survey have been addressed. There were just a few comments, mostly to do with the approach. Added the fact of working with video production company, group will not be doing the actual filming, and a few other things that clarify the way the group will work.

<shadi> http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/2015/showcase-tf.html

RESOLUTION: Showcase with videos task force work statement is approved as amended.

Shadi: And to remind everyone that any EO members who have background in video production and are willing to add this work to your EO portfolio, we welcome your participation. Or if you know of others who may be interested in helping please contact the TF Faciltator, Brent Bakken or myself. And EO will review everything before it is finalized.

Shawn: Join the TF to do specific work on that in addition to your weekly EO duties. Anything else on this?

Tips requirements Analysis

<shawn> fyi update note about change from roles to tasks https://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/Quick_Start_Guides/Requirements_Analysis#Updates

<shawn> 2.2. criteria/considerations for what tips to include https://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/Quick_Start_Guides/Requirements_Analysis#Criteria_for_Tips

Shawn: Tasks rather than roles, update note
... Now looking for shared understanding on what Tips to inlcude. Looking at criteria,

<shawn> objectives:

<shawn> Help ease readers into accessibility.

<shawn> Provide tips based on audience role, e.g. designer.

<shawn> Provide practical and actionable tips that will help readers improve the accessibility of their deliverables.

<shawn> Avoid overwhelming users with too much information, but ensure they have enough to understand what they need to do.

<shawn> Direct readers to additional more in-depth resources.

<shawn> Provide a reminder for those who have a little bit more experience.

<shawn> Provide a resource for advocates, trainers, and consultants to direct people to.

<shawn> Considerations for potential tips:

<shawn> How often do you think that this issue occurs in practice?

<shawn> How much of an impact does the tip have on real-world accessibility?

<shawn> How relevant is the tip to this task versus other tasks? (e.g., Designing versus Writing)

<shawn> What is the priority of this tip related to the other tips?

Shawn: Comments or clarification on the criteria that help us determine what Tips should be included?

Brent: I am not sure if this is something that can be edited based on feedback, but seems that we could publish a draft and see what the response is and to consider adding more tips as requested.

Shawn: We will release version 1 of the Tips as soon as EO thinks it is ready. We would plan for time to address public comments. We always welcome comments on EO documents and always try to address them as soon as time permits.
... we could add a note that encourages input even more than is usual when we make the announcement.
... clarification of the fact that we would actively seek comments and schedule time to address them.

Kevin: there is a small panel that encourages feedback in the tutorials, something like that?

Shawn: We can decide later how it is presented but the main point is to actively schedule time to address comments that do come in. Any additional comments on the criteria?

Tips on Designing

<shawn> http://w3c.github.io/wai-quick-start/designing.html

<shawn> Tip: Provide controls for content that starts automatically

Shawn: Last week we had a couple of resolution, kevin has implemented those and ready for review. First one

<shawn> http://w3c.github.io/wai-quick-start/designing.html#provide-controls-for-content-that-starts-automatically

Shawn: Great addition, Kevin from my perspective. Will we add an example?

Kevin: Sure once we agree to add this, I will

Shawn: And I can work on that with you.

Jon: Should we add an intro, some fluffy bit of context about why it is important?
... it seems like a recommendation with no context.

Shawn: in the EasyChecks we did a lot of why it's important for accessibility, but in the Tips, we are aiming for very short, focused instruction and agreed not to put rationalizations for each item.

<shawn> Recent changes - fyi

3.2 recent changes FYI

Shawn: Wanted to make sure that you are aware of the changes and have an opportunity to review and comment if you are so inspired. Questions?

Rating survey results

<shawn> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35532/EOWG13July2015/results#xq1

Shawn: Based on survey results, some things are fairly clear. Proposal is to include all tips except a couple. One is images of text, any comment?

RESOLUTION: Omit tip on images of text

Shawn: Next one is to discuss is alternative text for images, which is still TBD. Other wise, all other tips will be included. Comments or objections?

Jon: Why is contrast more relevant to a designer than images of text?

Shawn: If you review the objectives and the criteria for inclusion, we agreed that this is primarily geared to those who know nothing about accessibility and are approaching for the first time. We hope others will find them useful but that is our primary target.

Jon: It seems contrast has become the new a11y buzzword, where alt text used to be.

Shawn: It is one of the clearest and most obvious tips, one that is useful to many.
... we can clarify that the rating is to help with what to include.
... other questions, comments?

<jon> To clarify: I am fine with leaving in that tip.

RESOLUTION: Include all others, omit images of text, discuss alt text for images

Alternative text for images

<Vicki> good approach

Shawn: as of yesterday morning, we had clear direction, but late night participation has muddied the waters. Would like to clarify both perspectives, summarize, see if we can reach a resoution and if not, table this issue and see where it fits after we have processed the others like content and writing. How does that sound to all?
... keep in mind that these are meant to be task based, to hit main points, not overwhelm people with issues that are not in their immediate task. One perspective is that alt text is more of a writing or content task than a designing task. The other perspective is that the designer herself is likely to be the best one to understand the purpose and meaning of the image and so is the best one to create it.

Brent: I am fine with how this is stated, I am on the fence about where it needs to go. As long as we address alt text in one of the categories I am fine with that.

Shawn: We absolutely understand we must have a tip on alt text, but some think it belongs in Designing and other think it belongs in content or Writing.

<jon> Can we add it to both?

Sylvie: It depends on whether it is added by the designer like icons and menu bars. Designers must be aware that alternatives to images is really important. I am afraid they will forget to add if it is not in the tips.

<Vicki> I'm very cool with adding to both

<Sylvie> +1 to vicki

Vicki: I would love it if we can add a tip wherever it has relelvance to the task - it may belong in both design and writing, may even belong in development. I am OK with tabling it and seeing where it should land. It is so important it bears repeating.

Kevin: A reminder that it is meant to add tips for an activity, not for a person. The question is "Is this something I would do if I were designing?" I was unsure about this one.

Shawn: We also talked about putting alt text in the Learn More section

<Andrew> if we add to more than one set of tips, we need to clearly differentiate the tip for the activity/role

<shawn> http://w3c.github.io/wai-quick-start/designing.html#learn-more-about-accessibility

<shawn> Web Accessibility Tutorials - includes some guidance related to designing, for example, "providing alternative text for images"

<shawn> links to http://www.w3.org/WAI/tutorials/images/

Brent: What would the learn more link to?

Kevin: The images tutorial

Brent: It needs to be an actual tip on some page.

Shawn: Yes it IS a tip in Writing, no question.

<Vicki> It's too hidden in the "Learn more". I think it should be a tip in designing.

Sylvie: it is important that this be included as a tip for designers as well to be sure that they do not forget.

<jon> What Vicki said

Sharron: Do we have too many tips in Designing, is that why we are trying to narrow it down?

Kevin: There are slightly more here, more tips than other tasks.
... but only by one.

Shawn: So my suggestion is to put this on hold. I think once we see it in other tasks, we may have broader perspective.

<shadi> +1 to andrew

<Vicki> +1 Andrew

Andrew: I think there may be good reason to include it here, but if we do both, we must clearly differentiate the different relationships to the tip.

Andrew: I don't think we do that at the moment.

<jon> +1 Andrew

Shawn: Yes the wording here could be more relevant to the task.
... those of you who support having a Tip here in Designing, can you please suggest wording for how the tip would provide the information in a succint way that is most relelvant to this specific task?

<shawn> https://github.com/w3c/wai-quick-start/issues/73

Shawn: please add to GitHub

<Vicki> ok

Shawn: or any other way that you like.

<jon> Ok

Sylvie: My colleagues suggested that there is a case in which the designer places images in the template, or if there are background images that convey information, and other scenarios where the designer would be the only one with access to provide the right alt text.

<Vicki> excellent, sylvie!

<Vicki> +1 Sylvie

Shawn: So for now, we leave this as an open possibility and revisit as the other Tips are finalized.

<shawn> http://w3c.github.io/wai-quick-start/designing.html#use-spacing-and-headings-to-group-related-content

Example for Spacing and headings Tips in Designing

Shawn: Background is that we previously had no example and Howard suggested that we should.

<yatil> [I like the example]

Shawn: first question is, should this Tip have an example?

<Vicki> the tip without the example is not so clear. with the example, its better

George: I think it is well worth the space on the page and will foster discussion and understanding.

<jon> +100 to George's comment nothing further

Brent: I think it is a great addition. I think the two lighter grey boxes a fixed width. My wide screen enlarges it.

Andrew: I like the example, in general they are good. In this particular example, I am not so sure that this says it is a contrast of poor/good use of headings since they are just the same in each example.

RESOLUTION: Do include an example here and leave the current draft open to refine and improve.

<kevin> https://github.com/w3c/wai-quick-start/issues/107

Tips on Writing and Tips on Developing

Shawn: Reminder, the process we used to rate the Designing Tips we will do again for these. First make sure that all suggested tips are included and then prioritize them. So the first thing is to make sure that if you have any tips you think are missing, submit those now.
... in that way, when we prioritize, we will not have additions at the last minute. So the FIRST thing to do is to review and add any additional tips that you think we need by Wednesday the 22nd.
... any questions?
... we are eager to keep Kevin moving forward so the next set of inputs that Kevin needs from us on his ideas for examples. Once you complete 13 July survey, next task will be to look at the ideas for examples, add any that occur to you, and comment on those.

<kevin> https://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/EOWG_Meetings

Shawn: any additional comments, questions about work for next week?

Quick ref redesign prototype

<shawn> http://w3c.github.io/wai-wcag-quickref/8

<yatil> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35532/EOWG-7July2015/results#xq4

<yatil> https://github.com/w3c/wai-wcag-quickref/issues/15

Eric: As a result of the survey, I have addressed all the comments and added some work, take a look at GitHub issues. One question was the question of layout
... I have made some changes to the underlying structure, should have improved navigation, still buggy in Chrome but much improved overall. Advancements have been implemented.

<yatil> https://github.com/w3c/wai-wcag-quickref/issues/16

Eric: another question was on levels and coloring of SCs. Have addressed those and welcome your futher comments.
... some comments on the techniques. When expanded, there are three checkboxes, comment was that it is not really a filter.
... the changes may be reflected in the sidebar. Will propose something to address that and get back to you.

<yatil> https://github.com/w3c/wai-wcag-quickref/issues/17

Shawn: To summarize, the point here is that you are giving us an FYI for the input we have provided, is that right? If we can take a minute to regroup and reiterate that people's comments were addressed. The main thing we needed to finalize was the left panel with tabs placement of the filter options, is that right?

<Andrew> thanks for considering adding 'techniques' toggle to filter side-bar

Shawn: Did people follow Eric's overview or do you want more detail or do you have any comments or questions? Feel that you have the info you want/need for this topic?

<Vicki> no questions.

<jon> I feel as though I have all the information I need. Thanks so much Eric!

<Brent> no questions

<Andrew> looking very slick :)

Shawn: Comments on latest design?

<Vicki> looking wow

Sharron: Bravo!

<shawn> yeah! bravo!

<Brent> I like the "clean" look and feel of the SC # and title. It is better with the color removed. good job Eric.

<shawn> column layout survey results https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35532/EOWG-7July2015/results#xq5

RESOLUTION: Panel on the left will have tab for content and tab for filters.

Shawn: Stay alert for work for this week, Kevin's updates and adjourn.

<Vicki> bon weekend

<Sylvie> bye all

<Brent> Excellent work Kevin and Eric!

Summary of Action Items

[End of minutes]

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