W3C

Timed Text Working Group Teleconference

05 Mar 2015

See also: IRC log

Attendees

Present
glenn, Frans, pal, nigel, tmichel, jdsmith
Regrets
atai2
Chair
nigel
Scribe
nigel

Contents


<trackbot> Date: 05 March 2015

<scribe> scribe: nigel

This meeting

pal: Apologies, I'm only available for a couple of minutes today.

Action-378?

<trackbot> Action-378 -- Pierre-Anthony Lemieux to Draft smpte request including dispositions from action-369 and backgroundcolor initial value question -- due 2015-03-05 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/378

pal: I haven't yet managed to draft the SMPTE response, and see that there's been some further
... discussion on the reflector.
... I'm also interested to know if there's any review feedback on the IMSC 1 test suite yet?

nigel: I haven't been able to do this yet.

pal: On the SMPTE request, I see 2 parts - there's a TTML2 part in which we propose to dispose
... of the SMPTE requests. One approach is to wait until our WD for wide review, when TTML2 has
... stabilised. The other question is about SMPTE-TT and the redefinition of the initial value for
... background colour on the default region. This has an impact on IMSC 1 as well as TTML 2.
... Perhaps we could send two different communications - they'll probably go to different people
... in SMPTE. That's my proposal, to send 2 messages.

nigel: I don't object to this - I have had the sense from Mike when he's been on the call in previous
... meetings that there's some impatience with the time it's taken us to respond to the SMPTE
... requests.

pal: Okay, I still think two messages should be drafted. I'll endeavour to have that ready for
... next week.

nigel: Were there any specific points on the draft dispositions sent on the reflector?

pal: I haven't caught up with that yet.

nigel: I think we can keep going on the reflector for that as we're nearly at resolution and have
... good momentum.
... Back to the agenda for today, is there any other business?

group: no other business

WD publication process

nigel: We discussed this last week, but without Glenn.
... I updated the proposal and put it into the agenda.

PROPOSAL: permit but not require all TTWG Editors to use this new tool to publish automatically on any day of the week, following a group decision to publish, with the existing manual publishing process on Tuesdays and Thursdays still available as an alternative.

glenn: So long as I don't have to change my process I'm fine - I don't care what happens after I've
... passed it off to the Chair or Staff Contact.

nigel: Up to now I haven't been involved directly in the publication process, in terms of pushing
... documents onto the web server.

tmichel: Either I or the Editor or the Chair could use the new tool, and I could still use the old
... process with the web master. As I said in an earlier email that doesn't change anything about
... the approval process for the group to agree to publish.
... In some working groups there is one decision allowing the editor to publish when they feel
... like it - that's orthogonal to the publication process itself.

RESOLUTION: permit but not require all TTWG Editors to use this new tool to publish automatically on any day of the week, following a group decision to publish, with the existing manual publishing process on Tuesdays and Thursdays still available as an alternative.

Action Items

nigel: We already covered this earlier - there was only one action item.
... Just to note for the minutes that after last week's meeting I closed off the action items that
... we had covered but that I'd forgotten to close at the time.

F2F

https://www.w3.org/wiki/TimedText/F2F-april-2015

nigel: So far we have myself, Glenn and Dae Kim from Netflix (I've suggested to him that he may
... wish to join the group too).
... If you're able to attend then please add your name to the wiki page.
... Looking at the agenda, I've added a couple of items, to review the TTML <--> WebVTT mapping
... - though I haven't seen any straw man document for this yet.

glenn: Where are we on VTT? Will anyone attend to work on it at the upcoming meeting?

nigel: I'm not sure.
... That feeds in nicely to the other item I added as a possible, which is to review and where
... possible align the semantics of new/in development features in TTML2 and WebVTT.
... Obviously this depends on having the right people present.

tmichel: For WebVTT, there are some issues to resolve in terms of IPP, which I'm pursuing.
... I've also discussed this with plh. Plus I've started getting review from dependency groups
... i18n, WCAG, WAI-PF and CSS WG and HTML WG.

nigel: Back to the F2F, are there any other agenda items to add?

group: none at the moment

Issues

issue-294?

<trackbot> issue-294 -- Style attribute to prevent overflow by shrinking text to fit on a line -- pending review

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/294

nigel: This was mine. Glenn's proposal was to do nothing for the time being because it's too complex.
... And there's the option to use the 'font' element for more consistent rendering and the
... tts:extent="fitContent auto".

glenn: There are a couple of scenarios to consider.
... 1) Ruby
... 2) textCombine semantics of putting a horizontal block into a vertical line.
... I haven't given it complete thought but I'm in the process of implementing support and
... thinking about this issue. There's a fair amount of implementation detail to work through.
... One of them is the sizing of Ruby. The Japanese layout guidance makes some recommendations
... about sizing text, but CSS Ruby and HTML5 Ruby are fairly silent on the subject of sizing.
... So I've been assuming that the UA is free to scale the size of the Ruby annotation text to fit
... into the annotation box that's most appropriate for use with the base text. Similarly for
... textCombine horizontal, one may try to scale text to fit into the line height (block progression
... dimension). One way to think about that is that we have fontSize="auto" which tells the UA it
... can do what it wants to automatically fit the font size to do something appropriate, which
... suggests that in those cases the author should also be able to specify a definite font size,
... and if that causes the text to extend outside the nominal box then that would happen. I've
... been mulling over an "auto" value for fontSize but haven't written anything down yet.
... If we were to introduce it then we might define some content fitting semantics for something
... other than just Ruby and horizontal inline boxes.

nigel: That suggests to me that we reopen the issue and move it to v.next for the time being.
... I've done that directly on the issue and added a note.

issue-297?

<trackbot> issue-297 -- Include Profile Designator in Profile Definition Document -- pending review

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/297

nigel: The comments suggest this has been done using the designator attribute.
... This is in ttp:profile.

close issue-297

<trackbot> Closed issue-297.

issue-300?

<trackbot> issue-300 -- Prior interpretation of the correct fallback for tts:origin -- pending review

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/300

<glenn> glenn: In this context, the phrase closest supported value means the value for which the Euclidean distance between the computed origin and the supported origin is minimized. If there are multiple closest supported values equally distant from the computed value, then the value least distant from [0,0], i.e., closest to the coordinate space origin, is used.

nigel: That note is all I think is required for the issue.

glenn: That post is the note in TTML2. It's the same language as in TTML1. It doesn't look like
... there's any inconsistency.
... (with the second edition anyway).

nigel: I agree we should close this - there's no apparent difference between TTML1SE and TTML2
... here.

close issue-300

<trackbot> Closed issue-300.

issue-356?

<trackbot> issue-356 -- Add support for text emphasis semantics -- pending review

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/356

nigel: This has been implemented with the tts:textEmphasis attribute on span. There's an Ed Note
... for adding an example fragment and image.

glenn: This is focused on some east Asian/CJK features that add dots or marks near the text,
... sort of like Ruby, but semantically they're like emboldening the weight of a font - that technique
... is not generally used; the dot is used for semantic emphasis instead.
... It's called kendot in Japanese.
... here's a better reference for the minutes:

<glenn> http://www.w3.org/TR/jlreq/#composition_of_emphasis_dots

pal: In terms of Japanese reviewers, did TTWG formalise the liaison with ARIB?

nigel: Yes we did. I think it's in the minutes from a couple of weeks ago.

pal: Perhaps in due time it would make sense to actively seek ARIB's feedback

nigel: That will happen anyway because my approach will be to seek review from all of our
... direct liaisons, as well as the dependencies listed in the charter, when we publish the WD for
... wide review.

pal: Okay, in the meantime if we have specific questions on CJK features we could maybe ask
... targeted questions in a direct liaison message.

nigel: +1

close issue-356

<trackbot> Closed issue-356.

nigel: We're out of time for this week - meet again same time next week. Don't forget to review
... the IMSC 1 test suite. [adjourns meeting]
... Thanks everyone!

Summary of Action Items

[End of minutes]

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$Date: 2015/03/05 16:08:01 $