RDF Data Shapes Working Group Teleconference

<kcoyle> someone needs to mute...

<kcoyle> background noise

<Arnaud> thanks

<Arnaud> scribe: hknublau

Admin

Arnaud: not everyone is happy about the new time of the WG - compromise needed due to time zones
... editing minutes has been an ongoing issue, commonscribe not officially adopted, forced to do the old way

<pfps> I thought that Olivier said to Arnaud that he couldn't make this time.

Arnaud: we now have control over the minutes
... started cleaning up the minutes
... decisions are made on the calls, minutes are sent out, approved in the following call
... should give everyone enough time to react.
... previous minutes hopefully easy to accept, because no formal decisions were made.

PROPOSED: Approve minutes of the 5 November Telecon: http://www.w3.org/2014/11/05-shapes-minutes.html
... Approve minutes of the 12 November Telecon: http://www.w3.org/2014/11/12-shapes-minutes.html

<pfps> They both looked fine to me

<SimonSteyskal> +1

+1

<arthur> +1

RESOLUTION: Approve minutes of the 5 November Telecon: http://www.w3.org/2014/11/05-shapes-minutes.html

RESOLUTION: Approve minutes of the 12 November Telecon: http://www.w3.org/2014/11/12-shapes-minutes.html

<pfps> The minutes were pointed at in the agenda for this meeting. One task that you take up when joining the working group is to look over these minutes before the meeting to see if there are any concerns!

scribe: keeping records of decisions is important, chair has to prove things to W3C
... I created some documentation on how to edit them.

<kcoyle> add: http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/%7Echeckout%7E/2002/scribe/scribe.perl link to scribe.perl

scribe: either edit the IRC log and then re-generate the HTML, or modify the HTML directly.
... I prefer editing the log directly, because the HTML is generated automatically.
... editing HTML and then PUTting has issues (as Peter stated): changes may be overwritten.
... suggestion: scribe does initial clean up

Peter: we should get CommonScribe, so that we just have one way.

kcoyle: there is advantage in leaving the original minutes, to look them up.

Arnaud: yes the original minutes will always remain there.
... HTML page will have link to original log.
... I would prefer IRC log editing (over CommonScribe), due to auto-formatting.
... CommonScribe not an option for technical reasons.

Next meeting

Arnaud: No meeting next week due to Thanksgiving.

Tracking of actions and issues

Arnaud: Issues has a technical problem, reported to admins
... Protocol: anyone can raise an issue

<Arnaud> http://www.w3.org/2014/data-shapes/track/issues/raised

Arnaud: group decides on how to handle them, reject them.
... do not use Notes under Issue
... instead use the mailing list, will (in the future) be automatically linked to issue
... we can start discussing Issues now, the links will be created later after the bug is fixed.

Peter: concerns about losing first bits of discussions.

<Arnaud> ISSUE-1

<trackbot> ISSUE-1 -- What inferencing can or must be used? -- raised

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2014/data-shapes/track/issues/1

Arnaud: Let's look at all issues one by one now.

<pfps> I changed the name!

Arnaud: Issue 1: Inferencing is an important question to address

<AxelPolleres> +1 to that this is an issue (where I think that it can be resolved by just allowing to parameterize inference/entailment regime used)

PROPOSED: open ISSUE-1

<pfps> +1

<SimonSteyskal> +1

<kcoyle> +1

<jimkont> +1

<arthur> +1

<harold> +1

RESOLUTION: open ISSUE-1 http://www.w3.org/2014/data-shapes/track/issues/1

scribe: Issue 2: Target audience

<kcoyle> +q

kcoyle: need to consider combination of users and skills
... we should also capture the classes of users.

arthur: let's not call them "Audience"

Arnaud: Terminology may need to be adjusted, not just about skills

arthur: users may not even be humans.

PROPOSED: open ISSUE-2, changing it to be about what users and agents are expected to consume this technology and their associated skills and capabilities

<pfps> +1

<SimonSteyskal> +1

<kcoyle> +1

<arthur> +1

<harold> +1

<Anamitra> +1

<jimkont> +1

<AxelPolleres> +1

RESOLUTION: open ISSUE-2, changing it to be about what users and agents are expected to consume this technology and their associated skills and capabilities

<Arnaud> ISSUE-3

<trackbot> ISSUE-3 -- How is a shape associated with a graph? -- raised

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2014/data-shapes/track/issues/3

Arthur: OSLC example goes the other direction (point 1)

pfps: Association is symmetric and therefore covers it both ways.
... my note doesn't need to be discussed now.

Arnaud: Description is intentionally generic.

PROPOSED: open ISSUE-3 Shape Association

<pfps> +1

<AxelPolleres> +1 to this being an issue (I believe that a shape can be simply defined being associated to the results of a unary SPARQL query, which *could* be a type query, where that in fact means they are referring to *resources* in a graph, not to a graph)

<arthur> +1

<SimonSteyskal> +1

<kcoyle> +1

<jimkont> +1

<Anamitra> +1

RESOLUTION: open ISSUE-3 Shape Association

Arnaud: I encourage everyone to open issues
... status has changed to "open".
... At Last Call all issues must be closed, so this is an important formal process.

Glossary

Arnaud: Thanks to Peter for starting this document.
... if you are making significant changes, I recommend sending an email to the list too.

User Stories, Requirements

Arnaud: most user stories now have info on who created them, reverse engineered from pirate pad.
... possibly errors introduced: everyone please double-check.

pfps: please avoid judgemental words such as "easily".

kcoyle: I do not have access to the wiki.

Arnaud: will follow up with W3C staff.

kcoyle: therefore DC requirements not there yet.

Arnaud: If you add a section (such as a solution in a particular language), please mark it with your name.
... agree with Peter, let's be as objective as possible.

<AxelPolleres> as a remark to ISSUE-1, side remark, this might well relate to the (postponed) SPARQL feature http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Feature:ParameterizedInference

Arnaud: we will need an editor of the Use Cases deliverable.

<kcoyle> +q

Arnaud: will create another page for Requirements, esp those that we have agreed on.

<kcoyle> https://etherpad.wikimedia.org/p/requirements_analysis

kcoyle: DC is going through requirements, hopefully leading to a smaller catalogue.

+q

<Zakim> AxelPolleres, you wanted to ask about ISSUE-1

hknublau: would like feedback on my recent suggestion:

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-data-shapes-wg/2014Nov/0224.html

I believe this may be a compromise.

arhur: will respond on mailing list soon.

pfps: we should be looking at various ways in whcih shapes with are associated with data
... switching to technical mechanisms at this stage sounds premature.

arthur: where should that list go.

Arnaud: send email, shall become a wiki page.

<pfps> Ideally this should be started via mechanisms that are tied to the ISSUE.

<AxelPolleres> bye all!

<Arnaud> trackbot, end meeting