See also: IRC log
<trackbot> Date: 10 November 2014
Tzviya: We learned in Santa Clara there are some quiet people who are good scribes!
<tzviya> http://www.w3.org/2014/10/30-dpub-minutes.html
Tzviya: First, let's first approve the minutes from the F2F
…first day here
…thank you for those who attended
<tzviya> http://www.w3.org/2014/10/31-dpub-minutes.html
…and the second day here
…Comments or feedback?
Ivan: My only comment
…not against acceptance, but I need to bring these together
…I tried to include names of the various observers
…I'm sure I forgot some, so please send me their names and let me know; I'll add
Tzviya: I don't know all the names
Ivan: There were a bunch of persons coming
Tzviya: So if others [who attended] can add names that would be helpful
…how does that leave the minutes?
Ivan: We can accept the minutes
…more to be nice with the names
Tzviya: We can approve the minutes
…next item is to go through a summary from each of the task force leads
…to talk about what happened; the current goals; calls for volunteers
…and see if everyone is all set, or if they need any additional support
…Let's do order we did in Santa Clara
…Fragmentation and Layout…
Dave: We said I will add spreads and bleeds info on LatinReq
…and we'll collect business cases
…Brady and Markus will work on a page document
Tzviya: Did anybody volunteer to join you?
Dave: If they have, they have been very subtle
Ivan: Maybe you have not seen, Dave
<pbelfanti> I love the "fragmentainors" term
…We have one new member from Apple who has joined, who has worked in this area
…He works on WebKit and he was a member of the W3C team, Dean Jackson
…he has just joined
Dave: Cool, I know him
Ivan: So reaching out to him personally would be good
Tzviya: Actually Dean reached out to Dave and me
…and we have several new members who have joined recently
…Are any new members on the call today?
…Maybe next week
Tzviya: Structural Semantics and Protocols and Formats met
…adding a module to ARIA
…outlook is to take a hard look at existing EPUB vocab
…see which are structural and which are content
…And take a look at ARIA as well
…and look at terms from XHTML days and look for overlaps
…Markus, I, Deborah and Charles will look at EPUB3 terms
…and make sure there is nothing in conflict and document that into ARIA as a DigPub vocab for ARIA
…Matt Garrish…Markus and I are getting started on that; we met last week at an EDUPUB event
…No questions?
Ivan: Small comment
…I asked if you could update the description of each of the Task Forces on the wiki
Tzviya: I did that and saw that some of other groups did as well
+1
Dave: I did as well
Tzviya: Next group was STEM, Peter?
Peter: We are currently in stage
…of doing interviews to generate data
…that will lead to a wider survey
…Interviews are done and we are now working on a survey
…Sent out a quick and dirty Google doc
…Ideally it will be about what is common; send me emails, but just reference yourself and source, but not emails to be public
…Results of this survey will be summarized in a Note
…and hopefully put more information into the different channels
Ivan: Peter, we had a short discussion on email
…Do you know what tools you want to us? W3C survey or something else?
Peter: I have not decided yet; I would like to compare a few tools
…Google, another tool called Typeform
<Zakim> liam, you wanted to favour w3c one for engagement
Liam: Even if minor technical reasons, I would encourage using W3C survey to get more W3C engagement
<ivan> +1 to Liam
Tzviya: You have tools/people you need?
Peter: Not tools, people
Tzviya: right, volunteers you need
…and we talked about bringing in someone from a more traditional publishing background besides me?
Peter: I thought that came up in context of ebook survey or interview
…Yes, it would be good if someone has a strong interest
Tzviya: I meant in the chairs meeting
…Is there such a creature?
…Is there anyone from a more traditional publishing background who could talk about how publishing deals with STEM content?
…I have a meeting later this week to talk with some of my colleagues
<david_stroup> willing to help
Peter: Please send me an email if interested
+1 David Stroup
Tzviya: Bill and Madi led the Metadata meeting
Madi: I participated by phone
…We were left with three action items
…But before that, we had a lot of discussions about what this TF could do in one year
…what we would not do
…is to go forward with rights/metadata
…we decided it is crucial for digpub but we agreed we could not achieve this in one year
…So our three action are to lead activity for best practices for metadata; serve as a portal/ warehouse and provide a reference
…Next is to develop a comprehensive list of identifiers
…whether we choose all or some of ONIX, BIC, providing RDF URIs
…instead of going to RDF and Schema.org
…and to finish the Metadata Notes as part of this document
…The identifiers and collating existing resources is no small feat
…I have an email out to Bill about our plan for next steps
…Ivan, do you want to add anything?
Ivan: That's good; one tiny thing
…on the Rights Metadata, we suggested that a Community Group might be created on the subject
…and to have a more easy-going discussion
Karen: And I think we encouraged Bill Kasdorf to speak with Heather Reid from Copyright Clearance Center (CCC)
Tzviya: Do you feel you have the help you need?
Madi: Give me another week to talk with Bill to try to pool resources
Tzviya: I have action in front of me and date to finish the list of identifiers is 20th of December
…Seems far off, but not really
Madi: no, it's not
…and leaving activity for collating best practices for RDFa is also for mid=December
….two activities that are action-heavy
…Let's check back next week to make sure these are getting started
…and getting down on paper
Madi: Bill and I will ping you this week
Julie: I wanted to mention a couple of things
…Madi, as I think you know, BISG has a rights committee that has been dormant about a year
…In June we held a workshop and now there is a white paper
…with outcome of that
…I would be happy to share with the IG or with you, Madi
…Pearson likely has a copy
…We are taking that work up again this Fall
…I'll keep an eye on that; but to make you aware
…you may be on the Rights committee, so should not be too difficult to cooridinate
…Also, we have a guide to identifiers that was updated in the spring
…May not have all of them, but may be a good way to cross-check
…not just identifiers for published book content, but also that apply to the publishing industry
…Like Int'l standard music identifiers
…that is on the BISG web site
…I can send a link as well
Madi: That's great
Tzviya: And the HTML identifiers from BISG is good as well
…And Peter, you may have missed that Dave volunteered to help out
…I think we can move onto the next session
…We had a meeting with the ATAG
…Accessible Authoring Tools Working Group
<Julie> BISG Guide to Identifiers is here: https://www.bisg.org/guide-identifiers-0
…Deborah, are you here?
Tzviya: This is a group that has documentation about creating accessible authoring tools
<pkra> david_stroup send me a quick email?
…Goal is to create tools that are accessible and to create accessible content
…In traditional publishing world, this is new to me
…and I was shocked because no one ever mentioned these tools
…there are hints to use this
…I thought it would be really great if the publishing world became aware of this
…and if we could incorporate this into our workflows
…For example, you get a red squiggle if you mis-spell a word
…and for images you will be cautioned that there is no description
<ivan> Authoring Tool Accessibility Guidelines (ATAG): http://www.w3.org/WAI/intro/atag.php
…and you can choose what to do with that
…We decided to take a look at these guidelines: Deborah is going to lead this
…and assess if there is anything missing
…Take a look to see if there is anything digpub specific to incorporate
<ivan> Various WAI Guidelines
…and we can share this with our colleagues
…make sure there is bookish content
…Deborah and Charles are doing it, but would be great to find others who could help out with this task
Ivan: That's a good summary
Tzviya: We had another meeting with Internationalization
…Ivan, will you summarize?
Ivan: Yes, Richard Ishida is the activity lead
…he gave an overview of Internationalization
…it was more of an information
…but what turned out is that they have already looked at varous types of int'l issues regarding publishing
…so there is a danger of duplicating work and not enough collaboration
…Richard and his colleagues set up a wiki page
<tzviya> https://www.w3.org/International/wiki/Improving_typography_on_the_Web_and_in_eBooks
…He put together a long list of references and information on EPUB and International issues and information
…It would be really good for us to review that and give feedback for what is missing and lacking
…There is a lot interesting work going on there
…but first step is on us to review that wiki page with all the references
…In general, we will need to be more attentive to what is happening there and to synchronize more
…This has been a bit missing
…so we need to work together more moving forward
<liza> I'm happy to review that list
…We are looking for volunteers here, too
…When I look at Richard's documents, I am always amazed
…when you look at various scripts and cultures
Tzviya: That covers it, I think
…Some of us speak other languages, or are familiar with books in other languages, but how do we do this in a organized way?
…i take left to right; Brady takes Cyrillic, etc.
…not sure how we do this
Ivan: I think the above will take more attention
…see if the kind of information is the right info
…if publishers need different types of info that is not there, regardless of the specific language
…I know that Richard has worked to create a huge amount of creating tutorials and courses on how to handle Internationalization
…I have no idea how this information is channeled to the publishing industry
…and how they know about it
…I have no idea
…in a way, we may need an Internationalization Czar who has this particular interest
Tzviya: We had talked about possibility
…of having someone who straddles both groups
…The only person I think is Cindy (Xiaoqian)
…from W3C China Host
…If she could help us with both, that would be excellent
Ivan: We can ask her
…difficulty with her is that she is in Beijing
…So having her on the calls is difficult
…she has other responsibilities, so I don't know how much time she has, but that would be good
Brady: I would caution against finding native speakers of the language to work on typographic issues
…My experience is that native speakers don't know about the typography of their language
…as they don't know what the rules actually are in their native language
…they know intuitively how they work
LOL
Tzviya: Excellent point
<ivan> -> Internationalization article list http://www.w3.org/International/articlelist
<liam> +1 to typographic people
Dave: I am rather interested in this Internationalization stuff; I'll talk to Richard and my colleagues to see if I can be a small bridge
Ivan: I had good contacts with Richard, so I am happy to do that with you
…I don't want to put myself forward as the lead
…I don't know what kind of info the publishing people need
…But I can be a bridge as well
Dave: I did talk to Richard quite a bit at TPAC
Ivan: Great
…I put a list of various articles that over the years this group, mostly Richard, has produced
…Some are really interesting
…every time I read them, they are humbling
Dave: yes
Tzviya: I find most of the work I do in English
…sometimes the distinctions between American and British English, which comes up most often in Math
<liza> "Maths"
…Peter, this may also be of interest to you
…Like annotating math in Arabic
…or how you do right to left languages in math
…just becomes very confusing
…I have worked with nieces and nephews; thinking in two directions is challenging, and then the typography
Peter: there is a notation on Arabic and right to left systems
…for example, MATHML, elementary math elements dealing with long division,
…has many options
…because of the different styles
<ivan> -> Arabic mathematical notation: http://www.w3.org/TR/arabic-math/
<pkra> http://www.w3.org/TR/arabic-math/
<pkra> right.
<pkra> :-)
Tzviya: So our decision is that for now Dave and Ivan will act as the bridges between us and Internationalization at W3C
…it's an area that affects all of us, so we should all keep an eye on it. I certainly will.
…and we can use more volunteers
<pkra> http://www.w3.org/TR/MathML3/chapter3.html#presm.elemmath.examples
Ivan: And from metadata side, there is a document on how personal names are treated around the world
…how you refer to a person is important there
…this one is really humbling; read that document
Tzviya; The common example is how to spell Dostoefsky
…and Spanish examples
…I believe these are the main topics
…and then Ivan and Markus gave an overview about what they presented at the Books in Browsers conference
…We will talk more about that at another time
Ivan: We forgot about the Annotations TFTzviya: yes, thank you
<azaroth> http://w3c.github.io/dpub-annotation/
…Annotations now have their own Working Group
…Rob are you here?
Frederick: I'm here
Rob: I'm here
Tzviya: Give us an update
fjh: working to publish FPWD of data model this year, making progress
…and got feedback on how to do robust anchoring
…main things right now
…received feedback and raised issues during TPAC, so working on those issues
…We expect to have F2F in April in conjunciton with iAnnotate conference, assuming this works for WG
Rob: I updated the use cases
…and closed my action
…and put my link into the chat channel
Tzviya: Those are ready to publish, correct?
Rob: Just await any further feedback, then, yes
Tzviya: Rob, Frederick and Ivan I will ask you to do the publishing details
Ivan: If you could contact Thierry Michel [W3C] because I travel to Australia this week
Tzviya: Congratulations, great you will be publishing
…I sent a Doodle poll out about when we should schedule the next f2f meeting
<tzviya> http://doodle.com/dtpefuzpy44i4v3b
…We are trying to schedule to combine with other events to limit travel
…Some dates may not work for everyone
…We may have to limit to some of dates
…please do fill out the survey
…And thank you to those who offered to host
…Someone suggested Digital Book World in January, but may be too soon
…likely spring
…So please get back to us by completing the Doodle poll
Deborah: One thing I would like to cover
…We do have volunteers with the accessibility work
…but more voluteers needed
…to do the work
…if anyone would be able to give us one hour a week, please let me or Charles know
…and we will add you to our list
Tzviya: We have 13 minutes
…Dave and I have more free time now
…Frederick and Rob, do you have a question?
Tzviya: I will email you
…We have some free time