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<trackbot> Date: 04 September 2014
<scribe> scribe: allanj
<jeanne2> https://www.w3.org/wiki/TPAC2014/ad-hoc-meetings
js: optional meeting 11-3 meeting
time for adhoc meetings both days
... schedule between groups
perhaps next week, with 3 week turn around, handle comments. then publish again right before TPAC
discussion on clean up particulars
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2014JulSep/0080.html
Proposed: insert into UAAG 2.0 Conformance Applicability Notes
<Jan> Note: In this document the term user interface is reserved only for controls and mechanisms of the user agent that is being considered for conformance. It does not include controls and mechanisms created by content or other user agents. For example a desktop user agent displays a page containing a media player. The media player is a user agent with its own unique user interface. The media...
<Jan> ...player would have its own unique conformance claim, just as the parent user agent has its own conformance claim.
<Jan> Note: In this document the term UA user interface is reserved only for controls and mechanisms of the user agent that is being considered for conformance. It does not include controls and mechanisms created by content or other user agents. For example a desktop user agent displays a page containing a media player. The media player is a user agent with its own unique user interface. The media...
<Jan> ...player would have its own unique conformance claim, just as the parent user agent has its own conformance claim.
<jeanne2> Embedded user agents: The term user agent (UA) user interface is reserved only for controls and mechanisms of the user agent that is being considered for conformance. It does not include controls and mechanisms created by content or other user agents. For example a desktop user agent displays a page containing a media player. The media player is a user agent with its own unique user interface. The
<jeanne2> media player would have its own unique conformance claim, just as the parent user agent has its own conformance claim.
discussion of UA user interface and the conformance
gl: this note is about the scope of the term UA user interface
<jeanne2> Scope of User Agent User Interface: Embedded user agents: The term user agent (UA) user interface is reserved only for controls and mechanisms of the user agent that is being considered for conformance. It does not include controls and mechanisms created by content or other user agents. For example a desktop user agent displays a page containing a media player. The media player is a user agent with
<jeanne2> its own unique user interface. The media player would have its own unique conformance claim, just as the parent user agent has its own conformance claim.
<jeanne2> Scope of User Agent User Interface: The term user agent (UA) user interface is reserved only for controls and mechanisms of the user agent that is being considered for conformance. It does not include controls and mechanisms created by content or other user agents. For example a desktop user agent displays a page containing a media player. The media player is a user agent with its own unique user
<jeanne2> interface. The media player would have its own unique conformance claim, just as the parent user agent has its own conformance claim.
<jeanne2> Scope of User Interface: The term user agent (UA) user interface is reserved only for controls and mechanisms of the user agent that is being considered for conformance. It does not include controls and mechanisms created by content or other user agents. For example a desktop user agent displays a page containing a media player. The media player is a user agent with its own unique user interface.
<jeanne2> The media player would have its own unique conformance claim, just as the parent user agent has its own conformance claim.
Scope of User Interface: The term user interface is reserved only for controls and mechanisms of the user agent that is being considered for conformance. It does not include controls and mechanisms created by content or other user agents. For example a desktop user agent displays a page containing a media player. The media player is a user agent with its own unique user interface.
The media player would have its own unique conformance claim, just as the parent user agent has its own conformance claim.
<jeanne2> Scope of User Interface: The term "user interface" is reserved only for controls and mechanisms of the user agent that is being considered for conformance. It does not include controls and mechanisms created by content or other user agents. For example a desktop user agent displays a page containing a media player. The media player is a user agent with its own unique user interface. The media player
<jeanne2> would have its own unique conformance claim, just as the parent user agent has its own conformance claim.
<jeanne2> ACTION: jeanne to update document to add Conformance Applicability Note above and link to the conformance note from the definition of user interface. Standardize all SCs to use term "user interface" linked to the definition. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/09/04-ua-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-1032 - Update document to add conformance applicability note above and link to the conformance note from the definition of user interface. standardize all scs to use term "user interface" linked to the definition. [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2014-09-11].
<Greg> I'd lean towards relegating the examples to the glossary entry for embedded user agents, but I'll defer to the group.
zakim: close item 1
MS04 (be clear what is user interface and what is rendered content)
We fixed our definitions, but MS04 also pointed out SC where we were not
specific which applied. I propose the following:
3.2.2 Back button. Added sentence to Intent "The Back feature is a part of the user agent user interface instead of the rendered content, however, authors should not "break" the Back button by disabling it, or creating sequences of web pages that would cause an error if the Back button were used. "
<Jan> Greg's http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2014JulSep/0087.html
<Jan> http://jspellman.github.io/UAAG-LC-Comment/
gl: need to smith the intent of
3.2.2 back, forward, navigate within history
... ideally change the SC but willing to defer
<Greg> I don't feel the SC needs any change to clarify whether it's related to UA UI or to content, but I would like to (ideally) see the SC reworded slightly to avoid focusing entirely on the terms "reverse" and "back". Per the second paragraph of my email, it should be about more than that. However, if people want to postpone this until UAAG3, I'll understand.
<Jan> Original numbering: 3.2.2 Back Button
<Jan> 2.3.4 Present Direct Commands in User Interface
discussion of meaning of the comment
<Jan> 2.2.1 Sequential Navigation Between Elements: The user can move the keyboard focus backwards and forwards through all recognized enabled elements in the current viewport.
<Jan> 3.2.3 Spell Check: User agents provide spell checking functionality for text created inside the user agent.
<kford> I was just asking what 3.2.2.said exactly.
<kford> I know that the ask on this item was to be very explicit about this discinction.
<kford> I know the ask was to be very expliciti on this point.
jr: need to be more explicit about rendered content.
<kford> We can for example address it by adding this explicitedly or say that context should in general make this obvious.
<Jan> UAAG 1.0 used to call this out explicitly ("Conformance detail") http://www.w3.org/TR/WAI-USERAGENT/guidelines.html#Guidelines
<kford> I am also saying that we can say that we don't agree with the comment and such.
<kford> I am saying we could respond that way.
ja: should we take a pass at finding any SC that need explicit rendered content?
jr: perhaps add an applicability
note about rendered content. or if some one wants to know they
can drill down and follow definitions, or read the reference
document
... add "applies to: rendered content, or uaui, or both" for
each SC in the reference document
js: then this must be done by next thurs.
jr: this seems easier than rewording SCs
js: the work is easy, making the decision is difficult
jr: should not be hard, if it is
hard then the comment is really valid
... will take a pass at the reference document.
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2014JulSep/0088.html
gl: editorial 'user agents
provide' vs 'the user can'
... I’m leery of the phrase "text created inside the user
agent"
... only refer to editable stuff in content
... regardless of where content is created
... don't want to require spell check in the UAUI
<Greg> My comment comes down to the fact that the current SC wording risks accidentally (a) applying to text entered into the UA UI, such as a Find field or File Open dialog, and (b) NOT applying to text that's pasted into a form field, since that's not technically "created inside the user agent".
ja: text inside viewport
js: no, not all words in <p> and <h> etc.
<Greg> I'd like to see something like "The user can have spelling and grammar assistance for any text in a text input field [or control] in content."
<Greg> Or "The user can have spelling and grammar assistance for text in text input fields [or controls] in content."
ja: no UA has grammar checking
gl: MS Word does
... extension - grammarly lite, grammar base
<Greg> Lots of extensions for various browsers add grammar checking.
<Greg> But as I said in my email I'm okay with relegating grammar assistance to a recommendation in the Reference document.
3.2.3 The user can have spelling for text in text input fields [or controls] in content.
<Greg> Or "The user can have spelling and grammar assistance for editable text in content."
<Greg> "The user can have spelling assistance for editable text in content."
"The user can have spelling assistance for editable text in rendered content."
<scribe> ACTION: jeanne to update 3.2.3 to be "The user can have spelling assistance for editable text in rendered content." [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/09/04-ua-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-1033 - Update 3.2.3 to be "the user can have spelling assistance for editable text in rendered content." [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2014-09-11].
<Greg> I can work on adapting my 1st and 3rd paragraphs for inclusion into the Intent.
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2014JulSep/0089.html
gl: need a better definition of element and element type
current def
element, element type
Primarily, a syntactic construct of a document type definition (DTD) for its application. This is the sense employed by the XML 1.0 specification ([XML], section 3). This sense is also relevant to structures defined by XML schemas. UAAG 2.0 also uses the term "element" more generally to mean a type of content (such as video or sound) or a logical construct (such as a header or list).
enabled element: An element with associated behaviors that can be activated through the user interface or through an API. The set of elements that a user agent enables is generally derived from, but is not limited to, the set of elements defined by implemented markup languages.
disabled element: A potentially enabled element that is not currently available for activation (e.g. a "grayed out" menu item).
element type is used in 1.4.2
<scribe> ACTION: greg to send to jeanne new definition for 'element' and 'element type' [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/09/04-ua-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-1034 - Send to jeanne new definition for 'element' and 'element type' [on Greg Lowney - due 2014-09-11].
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