12 Aug 2014

See also: IRC log


[Mozilla], deiu, Sandro, tantek, jasnell, aaronpk, [IPcaller], Arnaud, AdamB, MarkC, Ann, Doug_Schepers, rhiaro, barnabywalters, bret


<hhalpin> tantek note I will be 10 min late

<hhalpin> any scribe volunteers?

<tantek> thanks hhalpin

<hhalpin> just start wo me

<tantek> hey deiu

<jasnell> howdy all

I can scribe

scribenick deiu

<scribe> scribenick: deiu

<tantek> scribe: deiu

<tantek> hhalpin can you help us with some bot commands?

<evanpro> I'm on, but I came in via skype so I have no idea what my number is going to look like

<hhalpin> which ones?

<hhalpin> chair: tantek

<tantek> evanpro are you dialing in?

<evanpro> [16:01] <evanpro> I'm on, but I came in via skype so I have no idea what my number is going to look like

<tantek> scribenick?

Past action items

tantek: aaronpk volunteered last week to set up the 24h irc logs

aaronpk: the logs are now live

<aaronpk> http://socialwg.indiewebcamp.com/irc/social/today

<hhalpin> +1

aaronpk: this URL will always redir to today's log
... it will run continuously

tantek: can you document that on the wiki please?

aaronpk: under IRC on the social WG page

tantek: logs look pretty good for now, maybe you want to provide a quick explanation for how they work?

[Ann said hi]

AnnBassetti: could you clarify what the end result is?

tantek: the current result is that the social WG is using #social on irc.w3.org
... the social IG might be using a different name, #socialIG maybe

aaronpk: should Loqi also log that channel?
... I'll log that one too (after the call)

<evanpro> no objection

<Arnaud> it's fine

<hhalpin> given closely related nature of work sharing channels makes sense

[more IRC log talk]

<tommorris> I'm using Skype, not sure how to identify myself to Zakim

<hhalpin> on in 4 min

aaronpk: there's a wiki page called irc-people; you put your name there and photo

<aaronpk> https://www.w3.org/wiki/IRC-people

aaronpk: just copy/paste the template from other people

tantek: are the logs live as of today or do they reflect any history?

aaronpk: they go back 3-4 days

tantek: do we have any more questions/issues while at this topic?


<evanpro> None here

<jasnell> will the logs archive after they roll over pass the 3-4 day period?

<AnnBassetti> if anyone needs clues on how to use IRC at W3C: http://www.w3.org/wiki/IRC

<aaronpk> yes, the logs are persistent

<tommorris> jasnell: they are permanent. ;-)

evanpro: can we move the wiki page to the social WG wiki? it seems we're sharing the page with the IG

tantek: names should be unique/irc server so we're ok

<aaronpk> great

AnnBassetti: for people on the phone, if you're not on IRC and/or have not used IRC, please check the wiki page pasted above for info

Please use the nick, not the name when speaking ;)

follow up on Activity Streams 2.0

tantek: from last week we had an action to find out contributors to AS2.0 that are not W3C members

jasnell: all the ones I could find have already signed the agreement
... for the 2.0 contributions, I believe only 1 contributor has submitted anything substantial and I'm tracking him down
... he is contributing as an individual, not a company

tantek: beause he's not a W3C member, there's a form he can fill out
... we don't have to worry about it too much for now, at least until we publish a working draft

<Loqi> deiu meant to say: tantek: we don't have to worry about it too much for now, at least until we publish a working draft

<jasnell> I am collecting a list of AS 1.x / 2.0 impls here: https://www.w3.org/wiki/Activity_Streams#Implementations

<jasnell> Please add if you know of one not listed

regular telcon time preference

tantek: there's a doodle about it

<Arnaud> http://doodle.com/pwzi33rcnnagwzg7

tantek: so far it's not very friendly to people in US
... we're trying to gather data for deciding which time will be the least inconvenient
... that's an action to everyone to please go ahead and fill in the doodle
... please try to do that by next Tuesday
... any questions about the doodle?

<tantek> who just joined?

<barnabywalters> I’m in

harry: we are going to prioritize the chairs and editors (re. timezone)
... but we do want to get as many people to participate, so it's probably easier for people in EU to attend a bit later, rather to have US people wake up very early

sandro: if I recall, W3C requires 7 days notice...so maybe we can have the deadline be Sunday

<evanpro> No objection

sandro: maybe the chair can make a decision on that

tantek: objections to making the deadline Friday?

<harry> notes that I'm on vacation next week, but deadline friday makes sense

<harry> but we have a much wider selection of time!

[none so far]

<tommorris> as a Europe/London resident, participating in the evening is preferable to during the day.

<harry> you can start without me, but we do need 7 day notice

tantek: we've been thinking about starting telcons sometime in September

<harry> We could even start last week of August

tantek: are there any objections/suggestions for a week in Sept?

<evanpro> Week of the 24th?

evanpro: if we pick a day, can we start the week of the 24th Aug?

tantek: any objections?

harry: that would work for me, with a 7 day notice

<Arnaud> for non US people that's the week of the 25th

<harry> Is anyone still stuck in legal review of charter?

<barnabywalters> sounds fine to me

<evanpro> Arnaud: True!

<harry> RESOLUTION: Will start official telecons 24th of August

<bret> me

<AnnBassetti> Harry, yes .. the Boeing folks still await word from our lawyers

<bret> wasnt me (im still here)

<rhiaro> ??P15 might be me

<harry> Ann - you don't mind if we start on the 24th, right?

<AnnBassetti> start when you start; I will ping our lawyer now

<bret> had trouble connecting sorry to be late

<AdamB> no, we don't mind

tantek: that brings us to the open questions about the WG charter

<AnnBassetti> there's no real way I can speed him up

tantek: do we have any new invited experts this week?

harry: I haven't invited anyone new this week

<evanpro> https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/To_invite

evanpro: if we're aiming for the week of 24th, we do need to extend the invitations sooner rather than later
... I started a wiki page for organizations
... I'm in the process of reaching out to people I know at those orgs

<tantek> lol

evanpro: harry: is there a formal process to extend an invitation to a W3C member org?
... if there is, then we should reach to people

harry: the launch of the WG may not have reached the employees of all the member companies
... AC reps often miss emails
... if you do have any friends working for member companies, just invite them yourself and CC me so I can put them in touch with their AC rep

<AnnBassetti> yes, helpful Harry

evanpro: ok, that makes sense
... I will go through a list and try to contact people

tantek: can you split that list in two, members and orgs that might have invited experts

<evanpro> http://www.w3.org/Consortium/Member/List

evanpro: yes, I will look for orgs that have social products or contribute to social software

tantek: the last question I wanted to raise is about the schedule
... I want to raise the issue that if we're going to put up a schedule, we should at least start having official discussions...
... so that people can commit to dates
... a week out from when we start the official telcons maybe
... that's it about open issues
... I suggest we have another telcon next week (same time) to follow up on open actions

<harry> +1

<aaronpk> ACTION for aaronpk: log the #socialig IRC channel

<trackbot> Sorry, but no Tracker is associated with this channel.

<harry> I wont be there.

<harry> but will try to finish any open actions

<aaronpk> ACTION for aaronpk: backfill #social logs from before Loqi was in the channel

<trackbot> Sorry, but no Tracker is associated with this channel.


<Loqi> deiu meant to say: --?

tantek: evanpro, can you chair next week?

evanpro: yes

tantek: can anyone scribe next week?

<Arnaud> thank you deiu for knowing my schedule better than I do! :)

tantek: ok, next week's chair will have to handle the scribe management next week
... thanks everyone

<evanpro> Thanks tantek!

<barnabywalters> thanks everyone

everyone: thanks tantek

<harry> Meeting adjourned

<evanpro> One thing I wanted to bring up, which is one of our first tasks in the schedule

<evanpro> is determining what we want out of a social syntax

<evanpro> I started a page on the wiki, here: https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/Social_syntax_requirements

<aaronpk> evanpro: how do I find a JSON version of your activity stream here? https://e14n.com/evan

<tantek> harry, do you know if Zakim has an avatar/icon/logo?

tantek: just do an image search ;)

it's just a bridge, really

<AdamB> its over

<AdamB> :)

<evanpro> aaronpk: https://e14n.com/api/user/evan/feed

AnnBassetti: meeting again next week

<aaronpk> evanpro: "not logged in"... is the JSON version not public?

same time

<evanpro> Oh, that's right, it's not public

<aaronpk> and that URL is not discoverable from the HTML version?

<barnabywalters> that’s actually a pretty cool logo

<AdamB> +1 on that logo

<evanpro> aaronpk: it's discoverable via Webfinger

<evanpro> B-)

<aaronpk> ah interesting. but still not public?

<evanpro> Right

<aaronpk> if the HTML version is public, why not the AS version?

<evanpro> You have to authenticate remotely; it's a funny system, probably too paranoid on this point.

<aaronpk> really I was just looking for a quick example of AS JSON, and thought your site would be the easiest place to copy/paste an example :)

<evanpro> aaronpk: heh

<evanpro> Lemme see what I can do

<evanpro> I've gotta run, will ping later

<aaronpk> k cool

<jasnell> aaronpk: there are a couple quick examples in the AS JSON spec.

<tantek> aaronpk, does Loqi have an avatar?

<jasnell> http://jasnell.github.io/w3c-socialwg-activitystreams/activitystreams2.html#examples

<jasnell> but examples in the wild are much more.... diverse

<jasnell> https://www.w3.org/wiki/Activity_Streams/Examples

<aaronpk> jasnell: was hoping for an exmaple in the wild because they tend to be more reflective of what things will actually look like

<jasnell> examples in the wild tend to reflect (a) lack of focus on interop, (b) domain specific "extensions", (c) intentional divergence to address specific issues, or (d) differences of opinion

<jasnell> basically, people have the same basic ideas but they're doing it lots of different ways

<aaronpk> sounds basically the same as what I said :)

<jasnell> see: https://www.w3.org/wiki/Activity_Streams/Examples#Examples_of_Alternative_Approaches

<jasnell> In most cases that I've seen, there's been an absolute lack of focus on interop in the activity space. Generally, implementers will focus on enabling functionality for their own API only. This results in developers have to write to the fb api, or the google api, or the apigee api, etc... rather than writing to any particular standard

<tantek> jasnell - strange about lack of focus on interop in activity space. in the indieweb space, there's been a lot of focus on interop, because we have to

<aaronpk> frankly that's the same lack of interop focus that happened with OAuth 2

<tantek> jasnell's examples of fb, google, apigee etc. demonstrate why I'm skeptical about big orgs/sites actually working in good faith on contributing to / implementing any standards

<tantek> in the "social" space

<jasnell> if you look at specific areas, like the ADL/xAPI stuff, interop is a focus because it's a multi-vendor ecosystem. Problem is, they started with AS and diverged.

<tantek> that's even worse, where another subconsortium or oligopoly decides to go its own way

<tantek> that happened with schema too - and now we have volcanoes with fax numbers.

<jasnell> for IBM, the lack of interop is a big deal.. we don't want 100 different ways of doing the same basic things. It's annoying as hell

<Loqi> tantek meant to say: that happened with schema too - and now we have volcanoes with fax numbers.

<jasnell> tantek: +1

<jasnell> for most systems.. the focus tends to be "hey, come use our social tool only. it's everything you need. here's our REST API. isn't it awesome?" .... it's not "Our social tool works with other social tools. If another system publishes profile and activity data, we're capable of using that data also"... way too many social silos being built

<tantek> tommorris: perhaps you were [IPcaller] ?

<tommorris> I was on Skype.

<tantek> perhaps you were ??P15

<aaronpk> zakim has an avatar now :) http://socialwg.indiewebcamp.com/irc/social/2014-08-12/line/1407875153629

<bret> aaronpk how do i set an avatar? irc-people?

<aaronpk> ya

<tantek> bret, even /irc-people :)

<bret> hrmm cant log into the wiki even with my w3c profile info

<aaronpk> did you recently change your password? there's a lag

<bret> hrmm

<bret> no, but I just did now

<bret> http://www.w3.org/accounts/ is the same account as the wiki right?

<tantek> right

<tantek> there is definitely sometimes some lag

<bret> it didnt work the other day, and it didnt work today. maybe a reset will get it

Summary of Action Items

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Default Present: [Mozilla], deiu, Sandro, tantek, jasnell, aaronpk, [IPcaller], Arnaud, AdamB, MarkC, Ann, Doug_Schepers, rhiaro, barnabywalters, bret
Present: [Mozilla] deiu Sandro tantek jasnell aaronpk [IPcaller] Arnaud AdamB MarkC Ann Doug_Schepers rhiaro barnabywalters bret

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<dbooth> Meeting: Weekly Baking Club Meeting

Got date from IRC log name: 12 Aug 2014
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2014/08/12-social-minutes.html
People with action items: 

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