See also: IRC log
<trackbot> Date: 08 May 2014
<scribe> scribe: allanj
kp: look at the wiki to know what
MATF is doing
... working on resources
... source and date after everything, feedback requested
... ongoing discussion of responsive design.
... main task, currently, is #4 Techniques for WCAG
... thanks to Jan for BBC gap analysis
... MATF has a browser list, additions requested.
ja: UA wiki has new mobile page - https://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/work/wiki/Mobile_accessibility_and_UAAG20
kp: UAAG mobile examples are different that WCAG. UAAG are user based scenarios. WCAG a bit more technology based. difficult to correlate the two documents
js: UAAG examples are good use
... are being used broadly for general accessibility.
wayne dick has joined
wd: minor things that are
... specific values for spacing, needs to be specified that these increments are added to the character (1.4.3 and 1.4.6)
wd: CSS add the letter space value to the existing/default character spacing provided by the UA
jr: our issue has to do with the prescriptive nature of the SC. if a UA chooses different values to they fail.
wd: UA should do the whole
... character spacing is most effective at .1
jr: we need a range - min to max and a step range
wd: that would be the way to do
... not necessary to be so prescriptive
line 1.2 to 2
character .01 to .1, much beyond it slows the reader down.
ja: word spacing. Only in CSS.
gl: are there spacing requirements that could be made AAA because it is CSS specific and we are trying to make technology agnostic
wd: word spacing could be moved
... CSS will change word spacing automatically when changing letter spacing. No good research on word spacing.
gl: word spacing in CSS is
independent of letter spacing, letter remains intact with extra
space between words.
... could move word spacing to 1.4.6 and removed from 1.4.3
<Jan> WD: Really useful Line spacing 1.2 TO 1.5
<Jan> WD: But top of the range should be 2.0
<Jan> WD: Character spacing MIN 0.02 to MAX 0.1
<Jan> WD: Word spacing can move to 1.4.6 AAA
gl: increased % or em
wd: should be EM
... browser implementation is varied
... should use EM units, common in typography
<Jan> WD: Character spacing concept is the amount to be added to the base character width
<Jan> GL: character spacing..."Increased by amount..."
gl: 'letter spacing increased by X'
wd: some browser remove
proportional spacing when user starts adjusting letter spacing.
but varied implementation not very important, because user
... font would still be ARIAL but more space between character, seems almost fixed width.
gl: could keep word spacing at AA
for technologies that support it and AAA for others
... units, "time base character width (em)" suggested wording
... would eliminate typography jargon.
wd: many of the times in AAA need
margins and padding to be less to make reading easier.
... battle between large print and space on the screen. adjust font size, then color, then spacing, repeat cycle. fit the most information in the smallest space that user can still see
... there is one need group that would need column width and spacing issues to be AA
... folks with 'tunnel vision' need the reduced spacing
... other group - vision loss (glaucoma) can only see in the middle
... need narrow columns, closer line spacing, etc
eh: want more info about word wrapping and narrow columns.
kp: this is true for mobile also. horizontal scrolling pops up and is difficult for users
wd: will have research on horizontal scrolling and reading speed etc. by mid summer
eh: does column width rate a higher value in the guidelines
<Jan> 1.8.9 Allow Viewport Resize: The user can resize viewports within restrictions imposed by the platform, overriding any values specified by the author. (Level AA)
wd: should be a higher
... borders and text style of 1.4.5 should be AAA, margins should be AA
ja: problem in CSS there is no column width (except tables), in ms word you have a feature to make 1-6 columns with word wrap and flow. not in css
<Jan_> 1.8.15 Ignore Absolute Layout Dimensions: The user can have the user agent override author-specified absolute layout dimensions. (Level AA)
<Jan_> just adding some relevant SCs....
js: need to remember other technologies.
eh: need to capture this issue. is there a solution, do we need to track this.
wd: good responsive design (author controlled) should cover this.
<Jan_> 1.8.16 Linearize Content: The user can have recognized content rendered as a single column, overriding author-specified formatting of columns, tables, and positioning. (Level AA)
<Jan_> 1.8.14 Multi-Column Text Reflow: The user can specify that recognized multi-column text blocks each be reflowed into a single column. (Level AA)
jr: 1.8.9, 1.8.15, 1.8.14 and 1.8.16 are also relevant.
wd: these should go a long way to addressing the multi-column difficulties we discussed
eh: would this be something for the implementing document to discuss this scenario.
wd: it is not an orphan disability. fairly common in people.
jr: user should have ability to manipulate the page to see what works
wd: low vision (with field loss).
visual impairment 1/1000 for ages 0-40, 2/1000 40-60, 4/1000
... 2 categories - visual acuity loss and field loss (not pure, lots of overlap), each group has different issues. some need large print/other small print,
... cloudy vision, light sensitivity (albinism, others), scattered field (hold head in odd positions to get vision in best spot)
... Legge (psychophysics of reading) many good articles. doesn't matter what caused the condition functional ability is pretty much the same
close item 1
close item 2
<scribe> ACTION: jim to rewrite 1.4x to incorporate today's discussion. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/05/08-ua-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-979 - Rewrite 1.4x to incorporate today's discussion. [on Jim Allan - due 2014-05-15].
open item 3
js: found this as an item of concern
"In order to claim compliance, the claimant must demonstrate that solutions, and any required additional components, are available to non-expert users. Enabling the creation of such solutions is not by itself sufficient. "
js: do we need to add this to the conformance section?
Jan questioned the test ability of the statement.
ja: meeting ended
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.138 of Date: 2013-04-25 13:59:11 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Found Scribe: allanj Inferring ScribeNick: allanj Default Present: Jim_Allan, Jeanne, Kim_Patch, Greg_Lowney, Eric, +1.562.256.aaaa, [Microsoft], Jan Present: Jim_Allan Jeanne Kim_Patch Greg_Lowney Eric +1.562.256.aaaa [Microsoft] Jan Found Date: 08 May 2014 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2014/05/08-ua-minutes.html People with action items: jim WARNING: Possible internal error: join/leave lines remaining: <scribe> wayne dick has joined WARNING: Possible internal error: join/leave lines remaining: <scribe> wayne dick has joined[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]