16:20:25 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #ua
16:20:25 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/05/08-ua-irc
16:20:27 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
16:20:27 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #ua
16:20:29 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be WAI_UAWG
16:20:29 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_UAWG()1:00PM scheduled to start in 40 minutes
16:20:30 <trackbot> Meeting: User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference
16:20:30 <trackbot> Date: 08 May 2014
16:20:33 <allanj> rrsagent, set logs public
16:20:47 <allanj> chair: JimAllan, KellyFord
16:22:01 <Wayne_> Wayne_ has joined #ua
16:22:45 <wdick> wdick has joined #ua
16:32:19 <allanj> Agenda+ Wayne and 1.4 comments
16:32:43 <allanj> agenda+ kim to provide update on Mobile Accessibility Task Force
16:32:54 <allanj> agenda+ conformance section - ease of use
17:01:58 <jeanne> jeanne has joined #ua
17:02:25 <KimPatch> KimPatch has joined #ua
17:03:21 <Greg> Greg has joined #ua
17:03:40 <Jan> Jan has joined #ua
17:03:53 <Jan> zakim, code?
17:03:53 <Zakim> the conference code is 82941 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), Jan
17:06:04 <allanj> scribe: allanj
17:06:09 <Jan> zakim, what's up?
17:06:09 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, Jan.
17:06:10 <Eric> Eric has joined #ua
17:06:45 <allanj> zakim, agenda
17:06:45 <Zakim> I don't understand 'agenda', allanj
17:06:50 <allanj> zakim, agenda?
17:06:51 <Zakim> I see 3 items remaining on the agenda:
17:06:51 <Zakim> 1. Wayne and 1.4 comments [from allanj]
17:06:51 <Zakim> 2. kim to provide update on Mobile Accessibility Task Force [from allanj]
17:06:51 <Zakim> 3. conformance section - ease of use [from allanj]
17:07:02 <allanj> zakim, open item 3
17:07:02 <Zakim> agendum 3. "conformance section - ease of use" taken up [from allanj]
17:07:06 <allanj> zakim, open item 2
17:07:06 <Zakim> agendum 2. "kim to provide update on Mobile Accessibility Task Force" taken up [from allanj]
17:07:12 <KimPatch> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/Main_Page
17:07:49 <allanj> kp: look at the wiki to know what MATF is doing
17:07:55 <allanj> ... working on resources
17:08:25 <allanj> ... source and date after everything, feedback requested
17:08:41 <allanj> kp: ongoing discussion of responsive design.
17:09:26 <allanj> kp: main task, currently, is #4 Techniques for WCAG
17:09:46 <allanj> kp: thanks to Jan for BBC gap analysis
17:11:28 <allanj> kp: MATF has a browser list, additions requested.
17:11:54 <allanj> ja: UA wiki has new mobile page - https://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/work/wiki/Mobile_accessibility_and_UAAG20
17:13:10 <allanj> kp: UAAG mobile examples are different that WCAG. UAAG are user based scenarios. WCAG a bit more technology based. difficult to correlate the two documents
17:13:37 <allanj> js: UAAG examples are good use cases!
17:14:01 <allanj> ... are being used broadly for general accessibility.
17:14:58 <allanj> wayne dick has joined
17:15:25 <allanj> zakim, open item 1
17:15:25 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Wayne and 1.4 comments" taken up [from allanj]
17:16:04 <allanj> wd: minor things that are important
17:17:05 <allanj> ... specific values for spacing, needs to be specified that these increments are added to the character (1.4.3 and 1.4.6)
17:17:17 <Jan> http://jspellman.github.io/UAAG/UAAG20/#gl-text-config
17:18:16 <allanj> ... CSS add the letter space value to the existing/default character spacing provided by the UA
17:19:01 <allanj> jr: our issue has to do with the prescriptive nature of the SC. if a UA chooses different values to they fail.
17:19:50 <allanj> wd: UA should do the whole range.
17:20:29 <allanj> ... character spacing is most effective at .1
17:20:48 <allanj> jr: we need a range - min to max and a step range
17:21:00 <allanj> wd: that would be the way to do it.
17:21:22 <allanj> ... not necessary to be so prescriptive
17:21:33 <allanj> line 1.2 to 2
17:22:16 <allanj> character .01 to .1, much beyond it slows the reader down.
17:23:34 <allanj> ja: word spacing. Only in CSS.
17:25:15 <allanj> gl: are there spacing requirements that could be made AAA because it is CSS specific and we are trying to make technology agnostic
17:25:39 <allanj> wd: word spacing could be moved to AAA
17:26:28 <allanj> wd: CSS will change word spacing automatically when changing letter spacing. No good research on word spacing.
17:27:14 <allanj> gl: word spacing in CSS is independent of letter spacing, letter remains intact with extra space between words.
17:27:45 <allanj> gl: could move word spacing to 1.4.6 and removed from 1.4.3
17:28:20 <Jan> WD: Really useful Line spacing 1.2 TO 1.5
17:28:49 <Jan> WD: But top of the range should be 2.0
17:29:40 <Jan> WD: Character spacing MIN 0.02 to MAX 0.1
17:30:05 <Jan> WD: Word spacing can move to 1.4.6 AAA
17:30:15 <allanj> gl: increased % or em
17:30:32 <allanj> wd: should be EM
17:31:02 <allanj> wd: browser implementation is varied
17:31:22 <allanj> wd: should use EM units, common in typography
17:31:57 <Jan> WD: Character spacing concept is the amount to be added to the base character width
17:32:31 <Jan> GL: character spacing..."Increased by amount..."
17:32:35 <allanj> gl: 'letter spacing increased by X'
17:35:06 <allanj> wd: some browser remove proportional spacing when user starts adjusting letter spacing. but varied implementation not very important, because user still benefits.
17:36:03 <allanj> ... font would still be ARIAL but more space between character, seems almost fixed width.
17:36:32 <allanj> gl: could keep word spacing at AA for technologies that support it and AAA for others
17:37:11 <allanj> gl: units, "time base character width (em)" suggested wording
17:37:39 <allanj> ... would eliminate typography jargon.
17:39:39 <allanj> wd: many of the times in AAA need margins and padding to be less to make reading easier.
17:40:25 <Ralph> Ralph has joined #ua
17:40:54 <allanj> ... battle between large print and space on the screen. adjust font size, then color, then spacing, repeat cycle. fit the most information in the smallest space that user can still see
17:41:00 <Ralph> Ralph has left #ua
17:41:33 <allanj> wd: there is one need group that would need column width and spacing issues to be AA
17:42:25 <allanj> wd: folks with 'tunnel vision' need the reduced spacing
17:42:35 <Zakim> bot restarting in 2 minutes to recover bridge state
17:43:20 <Zakim> WAI_UAWG()1:00PM has now started
17:43:21 <Zakim> +Jim_Allan
17:43:21 <Zakim> +Jeanne
17:43:21 <Zakim> +Kim_Patch
17:43:21 <Zakim> +Greg_Lowney
17:43:21 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
17:43:21 <Zakim> +Eric
17:43:21 <Zakim> + +1.562.256.aaaa
17:43:21 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
17:43:28 <allanj> wd: other group - vision loss (glaucoma) can only see in the middle
17:43:35 <allanj> rrsagent, make minutes
17:43:35 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/05/08-ua-minutes.html allanj
17:44:11 <allanj> wd: need narrow columns, closer line spacing, etc
17:44:29 <Zakim> bot will restart in 20 minutes to recover bridge state
17:44:39 <allanj> eh: want more info about word wrapping and narrow columns.
17:45:11 <allanj> kp: this is true for mobile also. horizontal scrolling pops up and is difficult for users
17:45:47 <allanj> wd: will have research on horizontal scrolling and reading speed etc. by mid summer
17:46:26 <allanj> eh: does column width rate a higher value in the guidelines
17:47:03 <Jan> 1.8.9 Allow Viewport Resize: The user can resize viewports within restrictions imposed by the platform, overriding any values specified by the author. (Level AA)
17:47:03 <allanj> wd: should be a higher value
17:47:50 <allanj> wd: borders and text style of 1.4.5 should be AAA, margins should be AA
17:49:26 <allanj> ja: problem in CSS there is no column width (except tables), in ms word you have a feature to make 1-6 columns with word wrap and flow. not in css
17:49:28 <Jan_> 1.8.15 Ignore Absolute Layout Dimensions: The user can have the user agent override author-specified absolute layout dimensions. (Level AA)
17:49:29 <Zakim> -Greg_Lowney
17:49:31 <Jan_> Jan_ has joined #ua
17:49:40 <Jan_> just adding some relevant SCs....
17:49:59 <allanj> js: need to remember other technologies.
17:50:03 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]
17:50:11 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
17:50:29 <Jan_> zakim, [IPcaller] is really Jan
17:50:29 <Zakim> +Jan; got it
17:50:41 <allanj> eh: need to capture this issue. is there a solution, do we need to track this.
17:51:04 <allanj> wd: good responsive design (author controlled) should cover this.
17:51:20 <Jan_> 1.8.16 Linearize Content: The user can have recognized content rendered as a single column, overriding author-specified formatting of columns, tables, and positioning. (Level AA)
17:51:40 <Jan_> 1.8.14 Multi-Column Text Reflow: The user can specify that recognized multi-column text blocks each be reflowed into a single column. (Level AA)
17:51:56 <allanj> jr: 1.8.9, 1.8.15, 1.8.14 and 1.8.16 are also relevant.
17:52:32 <allanj> wd: these should go a long way to addressing the multi-column difficulties we discussed
17:53:02 <allanj> eh: would this be something for the implementing document to discuss this scenario.
17:53:11 <allanj> jr: yes
17:53:42 <allanj> wd: it is not an orphan disability. fairly common in people.
17:54:07 <allanj> jr: user should have ability to manipulate the page to see what works
17:56:24 <allanj> wd: low vision (with field loss).  visual impairment 1/1000 for ages 0-40, 2/1000 40-60, 4/1000 for 65+
17:57:54 <Zakim> -Jeanne
17:58:07 <allanj> wd: 2 categories - visual acuity loss and field loss (not pure, lots of overlap), each group has different issues. some need large print/other small print,
17:59:31 <allanj> ... cloudy vision, light sensitivity (albinism, others), scattered field (hold head in odd positions to get vision in best spot)
17:59:41 <Zakim> -Eric
18:01:17 <Zakim> - +1.562.256.aaaa
18:02:00 <allanj> wd: Legge (psychophysics of reading) many good articles. doesn't matter what caused the condition functional ability is pretty much the same
18:02:29 <allanj> agenda?
18:02:38 <allanj> close item 1
18:02:46 <allanj> close item 2
18:03:01 <Zakim> -Jan
18:03:42 <allanj> Action: jim to rewrite 1.4x to incorporate today's discussion.
18:03:43 <trackbot> Created ACTION-979 - Rewrite 1.4x to incorporate today's discussion. [on Jim Allan - due 2014-05-15].
18:05:47 <allanj> open item 3
18:06:09 <allanj> js: found this as an item of concern
18:06:20 <allanj> "In order to claim compliance, the claimant must demonstrate that solutions, and any required additional components, are available to non-expert users. Enabling the creation of such solutions is not by  itself sufficient. "
18:06:40 <allanj> js: do we need to add this to the conformance section?
18:06:59 <allanj> Jan questioned the test ability of the statement.
18:09:38 <allanj> rrsagent, make minutes
18:09:38 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/05/08-ua-minutes.html allanj
18:11:31 <allanj> ja: meeting ended
18:11:37 <allanj> rrsagent, make minutes
18:11:37 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/05/08-ua-minutes.html allanj
18:11:56 <allanj> zakim, please part
18:11:56 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees were Jim_Allan, Jeanne, Kim_Patch, Greg_Lowney, Eric, +1.562.256.aaaa, [Microsoft], Jan
18:11:56 <Zakim> Zakim has left #ua
18:12:09 <allanj> rrsagent, make minutes
18:12:09 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/05/08-ua-minutes.html allanj
18:12:41 <allanj> rrsagent, please part
18:12:41 <RRSAgent> I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2014/05/08-ua-actions.rdf :
18:12:41 <RRSAgent> ACTION: jim to rewrite 1.4x to incorporate today's discussion. [1]
18:12:41 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/05/08-ua-irc#T18-03-42