<trackbot> Date: 25 March 2014

<clown> agenda: this

<scribe> scribe: joanie

<clown> scribenick: joanie

This is a test.

<clown> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-implementation-1.1/#mapping_events_selection

<clown> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-implementation-1.1/#focus_state_event_table

Now have a 1.1 version of the UAIG (Joseph).

JS: We now have a 1.1 version of the UAIG.

<clown> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-implementation-1.1/#mapping_role_table

JS: Most of the work that I did was getting Jason's table script
... If you look at the script you'll see you can do it as a table or as different roles.
... The script carves it up in different ways depending on what button is pushed.
... I have no idea how good it is for screen readers. I assume it is good.

CS: Jason has taken this into consideration, though it would be good to get some screen reader users to confirm this.

JS: The other thing that I did is put the UIA columns back in.

CS: Good. Thank you.

JS: The rest of the document is pretty much a copy of the 1.0 draft.
... I added this script to the role table, states and properties table

<clown> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-implementation-1.1/#mapping_state-property_table

JS: And to the events

<clown> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-implementation-1.1/#mapping_events_state-change

JS: All the other tables I thought were small enough that they didn't need this.
... But other people might have a different opinion.
... Any questions/comments?

CS: The hide and show icons seem reversed to me.

JS: They do to me too.
... When you press the toggle button they hide the column.
... But the label is show/hide column.

(Additional discussion about the UI resulting from the script.)

JS: I will make a note.

CS: I just hid everything but the UIA columns. This is going to be useful to compare.

agenda+ ACTION-1369 (David): Investigate FF implementation of aria-live removal events (see also ISSUE-481).

JS: David sent me an email this morning indicating he has been sick for the past week and may not be able to attend.

ACTION-1399 /ISSUE-644: (All) Updated mappings of aria-hidden="true" to reflect elements should not be exposed/mapped -- please review.

<clown> issue-644?

<trackbot> issue-644 -- Update ATK/AT-SPI mapping for aria-hidden="true" to reflect elements should not be exposed/mapped -- open

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/644

JS: This is something that Joanie raised. She wanted some text changed.
... ... In the ATK/AT-SPI2 mapping for aria-hidden="true".
... This was discussed on several occasions here.
... Consensus was reached.

<clown> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-implementation-1.1/#mapping_state-property_table

<clown> Element SHOULD NOT be exposed, unless it is focused or fires an accessibility event. If the object is exposed in the accessibility tree, map all attributes as normal, and expose

JS: But then I decided that this change was appropriate for other APIs as well, with the exception of Apple.

(JS reads the text from the document)

CS: Sounds right.

<clown> Not exposed in AX API unless focused. If focused, expose as normal.

JS: The Apple cell says almost the same thing (reads the above text)
... I am not aware of the Apple API having an object attribute
... And Mozilla will not agree with must not.
... So if everyone is ok with that, I will close the actions and the issue.

JD: I agree that this sounds good.
... Having the stronger, and similar language in the cells is helpful.

<bgaraventa1979> I was on mute, but sounds good to me as well

JS: Closed!

1.1 ISSUES and ACTIONS: (All) Start with ISSUE-540, https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/products/23 agenda+ be done.

<clown> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/products/23

JS: We left off at 540.

<clown> issue-540?

<trackbot> issue-540 -- Should the UAIG have a section to describe the API differences -- raised

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/540

JS: Which I don't see anymore. Did someone close 540?
... It's raised. I should open it then.

CS: Not a bad idea.

JS: Jason raised the issue.
... James Craig has a couple of notes here.
... This was originally raised against the spec.

CS: This is not a bad idea. I guess we can ask Jason write a draft.
... It seems like a good idea for someone who doesn't own the API to write the first draft. And then have people involved in creating those APIs review it.

<clown> ACTION: Joseph to send email to Jason Kiss to ask him if he could write a AAPI section that describes API differences. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/03/25-aapi-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-1408 - Send email to jason kiss to ask him if he could write a aapi section that describes api differences. [on Joseph Scheuhammer - due 2014-04-01].

<clown> trackbot, associate action-1408 with issue-540

<trackbot> action-1408 (Send email to jason kiss to ask him if he could write a aapi section that describes api differences.) associated with issue-540.

<clown> issue-583?

<trackbot> issue-583 -- Elements that are descendants of an element having aria-activedescendant should not all be focusable -- open

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/583

JS: This is a weird one.

CS: This is a difference between browser first implementation and platform first implementations.

JS: When Rich brought this issue up, he mentioned the descendant would need to have an ID to be focusable.

<clown> action-1222?

<trackbot> action-1222 -- David Bolter to Look into ISSUE-583, and think about section 4.3, step 4A to see if that answers the question. -- due 2013-05-16 -- CLOSED

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1222

JS: And if you look in the UAIG, it says that.
... David and I and Alex asked if what was in the UAIG was sufficient, and Alex said "yeah".
... There is a test case. The URL is wrong now.

(JS: brings the test case up)

(JS: Not able to find it)

JS: I may need to email Rich.
... I will take a look. Cynthia, you might be right. This might be dead.
... But I want to find the test case and be sure it works.
... What the UAIG says if the element has an ID and role, it's focusable.
... Any other child that is missing an ID and/or a role is not focusable.
... Are there are any objections?

CS: No objections.

<clown> issue-612?

<trackbot> issue-612 -- Review ia2/atk rule in group position. should this really determine level based on aria-owns chain. see uaig: http://www.w3.org/wai/pf/aria-implementation/#mapping_additional_position and test case 69: https://www.w3.org/wai/pf/testharness/testresults?tes -- open

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/612

<cyns> scribe: cyns

joanie: is this about how it's computed?

<joanie> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=499917

<clown> <p>If <code class="property-reference">aria-level</code> is not provided or inherited for an element of <a href="#def_role" class="termref">role</a> <code class="role-reference">treeitem</code>, user agents implementing IAccessible2 or <abbr title="Accessibility Toolkit">ATK</abbr>/<abbr title="Assistive Technology-Service Provider Interface">AT-SPI</abbr> <span class="rfc2119">must</span> compute it by following the explicit or computed <code>RELATION_NODE_C[CUT]

<joanie> scribe: joanie

JD: In comment #5 of the above Mozilla bug, David states:

"In the end it is simply punted to ARIA 1.1. See "agreement to add Issue-612 to ARIA-1.1" here http://www.w3.org/2013/10/22-aapi-minutes.html"

<clown> If aria-level is not provided or inherited for an element of role treeitem, user agents implementing IAccessible2 or ATKAT-SPI must compute it by following the explicit or computed RELATION_NODE_CHILD_OF relations.

(JS: reads the above text)

<cyns> scribe: cyns

joanie: orca is not currenlty looking the attribute. but if it has the relation node child of or parent of relations, we use that. Why are we asking browsers to compute somethhing that orca doesn't look at anyway.
... orca uses the relationship, so asking mozilla and webkit to calculate stuff when the real way to expose it is through existing atk stuff.
... this is making special cases for ATK. I don't like that.

js: aria-level is telling you this is a nested tree.

joanie: that what node relations are for

js: gnome a11y had this , should add to atk

joanie: orca doesn't want special cases for aria. should be like any other app
... this can be 1.1, because that won't be full rec unti 2016. atk doesn't have this, but maybe will by then.

cs: add this now, and put it at risk at when we get to last call?

joanie: need to check with collegue.

<joanie> scribe: joanie

<scribe> ACTION: Joanie to file a bug against ATK in GNOME's bugzilla requesting new position, level, and other API be added. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/03/25-aapi-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-1409 - File a bug against atk in gnome's bugzilla requesting new position, level, and other api be added. [on Joanmarie Diggs - due 2014-04-01].

trackbot, associate action-1409 with issue-612

<trackbot> action-1409 (File a bug against atk in gnome's bugzilla requesting new position, level, and other api be added.) associated with issue-612.

<Zakim> Joseph_Scheuhammer, you wanted to ask how is level calculated in a desktop (non-aria) tree?

JS: My question was, you don't want to make a distinction between ARIA and non-ARIA. And you're right.
... So how is level calculated now for the Desktop?

JD: Level is calculated by ascending the hierarchy via ATK/ATSPI_NODE_PARENT_OF
... Position in set is calculated by a combination of NODE_PARENT_OF followed by looking at the NODE_CHILD_OF instances.

JS: The text in question is commented out.
... Should I uncomment it now?
... And then modify it as needed as we work through this issue?
... It's kind of tough now because this issue refers to text which no one can see because it's commented out.

JD: I think it's fine to make that change now.

JS: I'm going to do that.
... I will call the meeting to an end.

clown: k

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Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Succeeded: s/table3/table/
Succeeded: s/people who don't own any of the APIs/someone who doesn't own the API/
Found Scribe: joanie
Found ScribeNick: joanie
Found Scribe: cyns
Inferring ScribeNick: cyns
Found Scribe: joanie
Inferring ScribeNick: joanie
Found Scribe: cyns
Inferring ScribeNick: cyns
Found Scribe: joanie
Inferring ScribeNick: joanie
Scribes: joanie, cyns
ScribeNicks: joanie, cyns
Default Present: Bryan_Garaventa, Joseph_Scheuhammer, joanie, [Microsoft]
Present: Bryan_Garaventa Joseph_Scheuhammer joanie Cynthia
Regrets: David_Bolter
Found Date: 25 Mar 2014
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2014/03/25-aapi-minutes.html
People with action items: joanie joseph

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