See also: IRC log
<trackbot> Date: 17 March 2014
<gcapiel> Weird it didn't see the phone coming in
<liza> Zakim has a case of the Mondays
<liza> Please mute, someone is very loud
<liza> Quiet now
<scribe> scribenick: dauwhe
mgylling: welcome Paul Belfanti
<liza> Welcome!
mgylling: Director of content
architecture at Pearson
... co-chair of EDUPUB workshop
Paul, are you on IRC?
mgylling: previous minutes
... any objection to approve?
... minutes are approved.
... Subject: TPAC
<tzviya> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-digipub-ig/2014Mar/0031.html minutes from last week
mgylling: some back-and-forth;
meeting will likely be Thursday-Friday
... will not be parallel with CSSWG
... which is good and bad
... parallel with HTMLWG
Ivan: we may need Robin or Mike Smith
mygylling: Ivan will fill in form
later today
... any other housekeeping items?
... Organization of task forces
<Luc> Luc is mute locally
mygylling: others have been
slow
... we need organization that fits the resources we have
<tzviya> is someone on a bus?
mygylling: we will
consolidate
... and we will document short-term goals for each task
force
... not necessarily singular, but that's fine
... so we have more tangible and easy-to-address work
items
... today we'll go through the task forces
... the options were discussed by co-chairs, Tzviya,. and
Ivan
... a task force for content and markup
... this "swallows" behavioural adaption and STEM
... led by Tzviya
<liza> STEM
tzviya: we will not be addressing
images aspect of this
... some MathML and STEM stuff may have included images
mgylling: we talked a lot about
overlap
... in A11Y there's lots of interest in SVG
... it's a crosscutting concern everywhere
... need to handle these issues where they arise
tzviya: not on wiki yet
<Luc> +q
tzviya: we had call on Friday
with Rich and Robin about addressing issue of epub:type
... and extend the structural semantic vocabulary
... how to refine the terms that exist in publishing
<tzviya> https://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Summary_of_20140314_Structural_Semantics_Call
tzviya: discussions are outlined
in [link TK]
... will incorporate into ARIA
... IDPF will maintain vocab
... validated by W3C validator
... EDUPUB alliance will help build vocab along with IG
mgylling: in terms of wiki link,
and this IG producing necessary docs
... should 1st deliverable of task force outline use cases for
structural semantics and inflection
<Luc> overlap with metadata TF on content markup?
mgylling: why do we want to do
this?
... when HTML5 is so great already
... should task force discuss topic at general level? Here's
the use cases that underline topic
... and also discuss and track primary options, like role
attribute
tzviya: that makes sense
mgylling: i have some sources of
documenation
... action item for mgylling and tzviya to produce 1st version
of doc
... changes in ARIA 1.1 and potentially HTML5 and in
Validator
... lots of issue tracking required
... good use of IG time
Luc: overlap with metadata task
force?
... due to semantic markup
... also interested in content markup
... when you speak about ARIA, you are bringing many semantic
markup to the deepest level of the content
Ivan: yes, there a clear
connection here
... What we discussed with Rich and others
... we would have a mechanism where role attribute could be
used for terms or issues that are not necessarily covered by
a18y
... this mechanism can be used for educational purposes, or for
things like indexes or glossaries
... find a mechanism that works everywhere, uses attribute
based information rather than XML vocab
... we need to establish this mechanism
bring together ARIA, EPUB, HTML5, etc.
Ivan: question for Tzviya
... did we agree on another call?
... there were technical issues about ARIA attribues
tzviya: we did not set up another call
Ivan: what do we do about that? Do we contact Rich?
tzviya: he's set on sticking with
role attribute
... other attributes would be much lengthier conversation
mgylling: not urgent to have
another call
... Rich has filed issue in ARIA tracker
... next thing is PF needs to sort out in ARIA 1.1
... we should particpating in PF calls
Ivan: what is next step for us?
tzviya: put use cases behind this
all: yep
mgylling: you'll be updating wiki
tzviya: yes
Ivan: one liner as well?
mgylling: that's what I
meant
... we'll work jointly on document
... anything more on content and markup?
... so work on MathML and STEM is dormant at the moment
... moving on to metadata
Bill_Kasdorf: last week's call
was very helpful
... talked to Madi after the meeting
... made extensive edit to wiki, but didn't work quite
right
<gcapiel> Except with regards to a11y on STEM and math
Bill_Kasdorf: let's first just
find out what are the urgent issues from pub POV
... asking them what the W3C can do about it is harder
... just asking what is hard gets all sorts of answers
moderator is mucking up the works :)
Bill_Kasdorf: having some issues with wiki
<tzviya> * once it;s on the wiki, you can link
<ivan> https://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Task_Forces/Metadata#SCOPE
Bill_Kasdorf: summary here
https://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Task_Forces/Metadata#SCOPE
... hand-pick knowledgeable folks, and interview them
... let's see what that blitz of interviewing surfaces
... what common threads?
... do that in a couple weeks
... I have list of people to talk to
... I did half last week
... Laura Dawson at Bowker
... Fran Toolan at Firebrand
... co-authors of metadata handbook
... all those are book-oriented people
... didn't reach Graham Bell of Editeur
... ??? and ??? from Crossref, involved with STEM
... they have a sucessful metadata service that the scholarly
publishing world depends on
... Diane Kennedy at IDEAlliance
... others for Magazine metadata
... Kevin Hawkins library
... Julie Morris and Len Vlahos of BISG
... BISG has lots of members who are not W3C members
... BISG has metadata committee
... and committees for BISAC and ONIX
... summarized first four interviews in wiki
... these were all book people
... metadata is complex, rich, enormous subject
... have trouble getting their heads around it
... the problem isn't the metadata, it's how to use it
... common theme... it's all about discovery and selling
books
... aligns with Madi's point when starting IG
... also need more granular metadata, need at lower than title
level
... two issues:
... one, expanded use of role attribute
... put subject metadata at granular level in content
mgylling: are you continuing to do interviews?
Bill_Kasdorf: one other issue is
profusion of vocabularies
... use your own controlled vocabulary like LOC, thema
... another case for something vastly simpler, like
schema.org
... I'm taking a broad approach
... Madi is talking to people at Pearson
mgylling: thanks bill
Ivan: small remark:
... we have close relationship with key people in
schema.org
Bill_Kasdorf: not sure where to put interview summaries in wiki
mgylling: I love data like this
from the real world
... first: interviewees need to accept that you're publishing
their statements
... second: is it correct that there will be a consolidated
report?
<ivan> I would certainly prefer to anonymize the data if we put it on the wiki
Bill_Kasdorf: yes, of course.
mgylling: that's your first delivierable
Bill_Kasdorf: will include some
issues that are not in scope of W3C
... not all these issues are W3C issues
mgylling: I don't know if Ivan has concerns about that, I think it gives us a grip on the big picture
Ivan: We can't know what is in scope unless we know what's out of scope
Bill_Kasdorf: ONIX is huge, BISAC
is huge, lots of inconsistency in ecosystem
... W3C can't solve that problem
... W3C can help with simple thing on top of rich vocabs
mgylling: if long-term goal is digi pub is first-class citizen of web, then all this needs to work
Bill_Kasdorf: it's all about discovery, and thus it's all about Google
mgylling: we were going to talk about metadata today
<gcapiel> More reason for Schema.org
mgylling: do you want to reschedule dedicated metadata call
Bill_Kasdorf: optimal time is
when we complete interviews and write up summaries
... next week is too soon
... good idea, we'll fix a date later
mgylling: a11y
... Topic: a11y
gcapiel: didn't sync up with
Suzanne
... did add to wiki
... some of what I think should be the current goals
... I looked at user agent accessiblity guidelines
... worth reviewing that, and proposing edits to take into
account digital publishing
<ivan> a11y's one liner on the web: "Review UAAG, EPUB 3 a11y features/guidelines particularly media overlays, CSS Speech, Braille, and SVG"
gcapiel: go through EPUB3
accessibliity document that Matt Garish did
... we haven't talked about media overlays much
... including an audio file with content is part of it
... but there are things like skippability
... which are covered in EPUB3 but not in OWP
... other areas are CSS speech
... where the gaps are with braille support
... some work with SVG and aria roles
... that's also under current goals, working with rich and
shepazu
mgylling: that ties in with Tzviya's work on semantic vocab
gcapiel: we're thinging from a11y perspective
<Bill_Kasdorf> re the wiki link to metadata, the updated content is NOT yet appearing there
mgylling: reviewing User agent guidelines, looking at EPUB3 feature set and mapping to OWP... what about resources?
gcapiel: that's the biggest
challeng
... for the next six weeks or so I have some time to work on
this!
... getting time from other folks might be tight
... can catch up with Suzanne next week
... might not be able to do a meet-up with all folks
involved
mgylling: we'll get back to
resource question
... more on a11y?
Ivan: any reason WCAG is not
mentioned here?
... that's a good question.
... it probably should fit into this
... in terms of priorities, it's more on the Reading
Systems
... if I had to pick one, it would be to focus on UA
Accessiblity Guidelines, then BISG could help
mgylling: UAAG is in last call, which makes it more urgent
???: ????
mgylling: UUAG review should be
prioritized
... topic: Latinreq
dauwhe: want to work on footnotes and drop caps for CSS
mgylling: topic: Annotations
azaroth: some feedback on
Annotations doc
... some new issues that should be added
... then we can publish an updated WD when feedback has been
incorporated
mgylling: how long to wait?
azaroth: wait until after iAnnotate and W3C conference
<ivan> +1
mgylling: current goal is to collect community feedback, then produce updated version?
azaroth: yep.
mgylling: we'll clean up wiki
front page
... maybe a separate table for dormant topics?
Ivan: the front page should
reflect current work
... as it's a reference for people coming to the wiki
... we can also say some topics are not currently being worked
on
... unsure what to do with security item
mgylling: will talk to sharad
Ivan: who should change
table?
... won't be before tomorrow
mgylling: add 2nd table below for dormant/pending/future task forces, but keep on first page
Ivan: i will do that tomorrow
mgylling: any final questions?
Ivan: we must congratulate our editors, as we have our first publications out!
<tzviya> congratulations!
mgylling: and Liza is working on a blog post.
<Luc> c13s
<tzviya> :)
all: bye
<mgylling> dauwhe, thanks for scribing
<tmichel> rrsagent draft minutes
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