See also: IRC log
<trackbot> Date: 07 March 2014
<shawn> scribe: Paul
<shawn> open issues: https://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/Tutorials#Feedback_on_4_March_version
Eric: thanks to Bim for great
... bottlecap image - are there any copyright issues with using this image?
Eric: we need an image that matches the alt text
Shawn: we'll check on the copyright off-line
<LiamM> Google says re photos of trademarked or copyrighted works: http://www.danheller.com/model-release-copyrights.html
Liam: the Google article indicates that we're probably fine
Eric: I added CSS equivalent to
an image (your access to the city)
... we don't display vendor prefixes, should we describe those?
Shawn: can you say more about this, Eric?
Eric: vendor prefixes in CSS transforms are code that indicate which vendor's browser that code works in. Do we need to have more details about that?
Shawn: can we change the example so that the vendor prefix descriptions are not necessary? We might be able to avoid the whole question...
Eric: I think it's important to show that you can use the new tools to make your site more attractive AND accessible
Shawn: can we provide a link to additional resources?
Eric: yes, we can do that
... CSS spec is good for that
Shawn: let's link to that then
Eric: MathML does not seem to work in any browsers at the moment
Shawn: we should talk to the MathML experts for their perspective on this
Wayne: actually we do
Shawn: Eric and Wayne please follow up on this regarding practical examples we can use
<LiamM> Browser support chart: http://caniuse.com/mathml
Wayne: I'll know a lot more about this in a month
<LiamM> Also see http://www.mathjax.org/demos/mathml-samples/
Wayne: I'll be up-to-speed in about a month, especially after CSUN conference
<Sharron> scribe: Sharron
<Zakim> LiamM, you wanted to ask about autogenerated complex images when appropriate
Liam: Interactive chart that
shows how various dependency fit together
... how do we address these kinds of complicated data?
Wayne: What about the ARIA grid option?
Liam: Can you do multiple arrays & even if you do, is it useful?
Eric: That is going to need a lot
of testing - such examples are really complicated
... with ARIA, you still have to break them down so that they are not too complicated
Liam: this is probably out of scope of this tutorial, but we should still probably speak to someone about this.
Wayne: A table is actually a
... four dimensions is pretty hard
Liam: unless you reduce them down to three
<paulschantz> scribe: Paul
<paulschantz> scribenick: Paul
<Jan> Shawn: We don't really have an answer for this right now, but we might want to put it in later after we have explored this further. Liam - you may want to present this to the WAI interest group and then once there's a solution, we can discuss implementing it in the tutorial.
Eric: I'd really like to collect advanced ARIA examples with respect to complex images
Shawn: I think it's best to go directly to the ARIA folks or the recent WCAG threads
Eric: will do
Shawn: I don't think people saw my final comments...I think adding the text adds visual complexity and we probably should not include this info.
Wayne: would this tutorial make more sense with a different style sheet?
Shawn: try it :-)
Shawn: next point is putting
draft in place and making announcement in March
... we'd like to have tutorials draft ready in time for CSUN (keeping "draft" on it),
Shawn: can I get plus ones on that from the group?
Shawn: do we announce these as early drafts before CSUN?
Sharron: no, but fine to talk about it. Maybe we should think about it as a "soft launch"
Shawn: what if we mention this is something that we're working on? It could generate excitement around the work and help crowdsource some help.
Sharron: that's a good point. The items we have are solid, but there are still a number of unresolved details we really ought to finish.
Wayne: I understand what you're all getting at now. What about a compromise? This isn't vaporware...getting opinions would be good
<Zakim> EricE, you wanted to note that I’ve added the other tutorials, also that it is a more living document
Wayne: this is not an empty announcement; even our draft document is really solid
Eric: I think this is more of a "living document" and we should leverage github for developer comments
Paul: having it in github is likely to garner more developer interest
<Sharron> OK with announcing as work in progress
Shawn: are we comfortable announcing this as work in progress?
Shawn: thanks for that!
<Howard_> I'm there
Shawn: are people ok with moving illustrations to main public Easy Checks page?
Wayne: is the expand all sections/collapse all sections a part of this? Contrast isn't great
Shawn: no, that's part of the general UI questions
<Bim> +1 to illustrations to main
<Bim> +1 to announcement
Shawn: should we make an announcement that we have an updated draft of Easy Checks?
Howard: reads comments from EO member in wiki
Shawn: any other thoughts on making an announcement?
Shawn: Sharron, Paul and others have been working on this.
Sharron: ATAG promotion page has
all the information about promotional ideas we've been working
... Paul said Wayne's idea of haikus was actually pretty good
Sharron: I've ordered buttons to
hand out on the floor
... we have cards too with information about how people can get involved either via testing or implementation
... Judy said we needed something about the date on the cards. In the future, the cards may have less relevance
... Eric suggested something about shortening the links, are there any official ones that W3C uses?
Shawn: I can direct you to the right person...
Sharron: we want to add a
paragraph summarizing our progress
... maybe we should move progress notes to the top of the page to spur interest / involvement?
Shawn: does EO have any reactions to this material? Suggestions?
Jan: my division in Pearson is interested in helping with this effort at CSUN
<Bim> I like the Business Card text
Shawn: what would you think if you received this card at the conference?
<Zakim> shawn, you wanted to ask non-at vendors
Shawn: would addition of non-at vendor text in these materials be helpful or not?
Paul: I think implementation and testing messages are enough
Wayne: we'll be handing these out, so we can talk about these other details in-person when we hand them out
Shawn: Sharron, Paul, and Wayne can you work on the elevator pitch?
Sharron: we can do this during our Wednesday call
<Sharron> Sharron: Action to send invite for Wednesday afternoon call
Sharron: a braille version will be available at the Knowbility table
Shawn: when do you need card text finalized?
Sharron: we can get the cards done quickly...maybe a week before we leave? The braille is the harder part.
Shawn: it would be helpful if
Jean could look at this before going to print...
... thanks for your help Sharron, Paul and Wayne!
Shawn: we're meeting at the Solimar Hotel. It's a walk, but a long walk. Jan may be getting a van and I'll have a car.
Jan: I'm getting a van
Wayne: I have a friend who knows great places to eat in downtown SD. Will check on that.
Shawn: we will have about 8 people
Shawn: review of how EO is managing / tracking projects and who is doing what
<shawn> Everyone - You need to record done (or abstain) for all "Everyone" actions. You do *not* need to be picky and comment on every point -- you can put something like, "OK either way" or "no opinion" or such.
Shawn: if there's something you committed to do, your name is attached to it. For some things, everyone needs to comment
<shawn> Anyone - You are encouraged to do these, but not required.
Shawn: any suggestions on making
this work better?
... each week, be sure to search for your name and those items marked "anyone" and "everyone"
Sharron: sometimes it's a little confusing with all the links and sections. It's a bit of a labyrinth at times
Wayne: I agree it's a little difficult to wade through at times
Shawn: don't let the wiki be a hindrance to commenting! Send comments by e-mail if that's your preferred mode of communicating.
<shawn> Sharron: we agreed it's OK to send by e-mail
<shawn> "piblished draft" http://www.w3.org/WAI/eval/preliminary
<shawn> EOWG draft with in-progress updates http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/Drafts/eval/checks
Shawn: Liam, would be great to
have your input. We plan to do some usability testing at CSUN
... need everyone to go back and look through Easy Checks...we're really close to calling this project "done"
Sharron: we'll be doing some usability testing at the Knowbility table at the CSUN conference and taking notes. Bring a laptop and go through it with attendees.
Shawn: we have some things we
want to test: illustrations, definitions of markup, page titles
(less important). I'll prioritize a list.
... please spend some time with testing Easy Checks prior to CSUN!
Wayne: it may be helpful to have a pared-down version of Easy Checks that just shows "how you do it," without all the additional explanations
Shawn: please send an e-mail to the EO list. Making the explanations collapsible is a possible option that's easy to implement
Howard: our disabilities department might be able to provide useful feedback
Shawn: meeting times will be one hour different starting next week due to US daylight savings time change
Shawn: any other topics for now?
<Bim> Regrets from me for next week
trackbot, end meeting
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.138 of Date: 2013-04-25 13:59:11 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/ your input on usability. / your input. / Found Scribe: Paul Found ScribeNick: PaulSchantz Found Scribe: Sharron Found Scribe: Jan Inferring ScribeNick: Jan Found Scribe: Paul Found ScribeNick: Paul WARNING: No scribe lines found matching ScribeNick pattern: <Paul> ... Found ScribeNick: paulschantz Scribes: Paul, Sharron, Jan ScribeNicks: PaulSchantz, Jan, Paul Default Present: Shawn, Bim, PaulSchantz, EricE, +1.512.797.aaaa, Sylvie_Duchateau, +44.137.383.aabb, Sharron, Liam, +1.512.731.aacc, Jan, +1.562.256.aadd, Wayne, Howard_ Present: Shawn Bim PaulSchantz EricE +1.512.797.aaaa Sylvie_Duchateau +44.137.383.aabb Sharron Liam +1.512.731.aacc Jan +1.562.256.aadd Wayne Howard_ Regrets: Anthony Andrew Shadi Vicki Anna Belle Found Date: 07 Mar 2014 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2014/03/07-eo-minutes.html People with action items:[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]