Education and Outreach Working Group Teleconference

07 Mar 2014

See also: IRC log


Shawn, Bim, PaulSchantz, EricE, +1.512.797.aaaa, Sylvie_Duchateau, +44.137.383.aabb, Sharron, Liam, +1.512.731.aacc, Jan, +1.562.256.aadd, Wayne, Howard_
Anthony, Andrew, Shadi, Vicki, Anna, Belle
Paul, Sharron, Jan


<trackbot> Date: 07 March 2014

<shawn> scribe: Paul

<shawn> scribenick:PaulSchantz

Bim: introduction

Eric: Introduction

Jan: Introduction

Paul: Introuction

Howard: Introduction

Liam: Introduction

Images tutorial

<shawn> http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/Drafts/tutorials/images/

<shawn> open issues: https://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/Tutorials#Feedback_on_4_March_version

Eric: thanks to Bim for great feedback
... bottlecap image - are there any copyright issues with using this image?

<yatil> http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/Drafts/tutorials/images/informative/#image-conveying-succinct-information

Eric: we need an image that matches the alt text

Shawn: we'll check on the copyright off-line

<LiamM> Google says re photos of trademarked or copyrighted works: http://www.danheller.com/model-release-copyrights.html

Liam: the Google article indicates that we're probably fine

<yatil> http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/Drafts/tutorials/images/textual/#alternative-approach

Eric: I added CSS equivalent to an image (your access to the city)
... we don't display vendor prefixes, should we describe those?

Shawn: can you say more about this, Eric?

Eric: vendor prefixes in CSS transforms are code that indicate which vendor's browser that code works in. Do we need to have more details about that?

Shawn: can we change the example so that the vendor prefix descriptions are not necessary? We might be able to avoid the whole question...

Eric: I think it's important to show that you can use the new tools to make your site more attractive AND accessible

Shawn: can we provide a link to additional resources?

Eric: yes, we can do that
... CSS spec is good for that

Shawn: let's link to that then

<yatil> http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/Drafts/tutorials/images/textual/#code-snippet-for-math-ml

Eric: MathML does not seem to work in any browsers at the moment

Shawn: we should talk to the MathML experts for their perspective on this

Wayne: actually we do

Shawn: Eric and Wayne please follow up on this regarding practical examples we can use

<LiamM> Browser support chart: http://caniuse.com/mathml

Wayne: I'll know a lot more about this in a month

<LiamM> Also see http://www.mathjax.org/demos/mathml-samples/

Wayne: I'll be up-to-speed in about a month, especially after CSUN conference

<Sharron> scribe: Sharron

<shawn> scribe:Jan

<Zakim> LiamM, you wanted to ask about autogenerated complex images when appropriate

<LiamM> http://bl.ocks.org/mbostock/7607999

<shawn> http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/Drafts/tutorials/images/complex/

Liam: Interactive chart that shows how various dependency fit together
... how do we address these kinds of complicated data?

Wayne: What about the ARIA grid option?

Liam: Can you do multiple arrays & even if you do, is it useful?

Eric: That is going to need a lot of testing - such examples are really complicated
... with ARIA, you still have to break them down so that they are not too complicated

Liam: this is probably out of scope of this tutorial, but we should still probably speak to someone about this.

Wayne: A table is actually a three-dimensional graph
... four dimensions is pretty hard

Liam: unless you reduce them down to three

<paulschantz> scribe: Paul

<paulschantz> scribenick: Paul

<shawn> scribenick:paulschantz

<Jan> Shawn: We don't really have an answer for this right now, but we might want to put it in later after we have explored this further. Liam - you may want to present this to the WAI interest group and then once there's a solution, we can discuss implementing it in the tutorial.

Eric: I'd really like to collect advanced ARIA examples with respect to complex images

Shawn: I think it's best to go directly to the ARIA folks or the recent WCAG threads

Eric: will do

Shawn: I don't think people saw my final comments...I think adding the text adds visual complexity and we probably should not include this info.

Wayne: would this tutorial make more sense with a different style sheet?

Shawn: try it :-)

<shawn> https://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/Tutorials#Drafts_in_place_and_announcements_March_2014

Shawn: next point is putting draft in place and making announcement in March
... we'd like to have tutorials draft ready in time for CSUN (keeping "draft" on it),

<Howard_> +1

Shawn: can I get plus ones on that from the group?


Shawn: do we announce these as early drafts before CSUN?

Sharron: no, but fine to talk about it. Maybe we should think about it as a "soft launch"

Shawn: what if we mention this is something that we're working on? It could generate excitement around the work and help crowdsource some help.

Sharron: that's a good point. The items we have are solid, but there are still a number of unresolved details we really ought to finish.

Wayne: I understand what you're all getting at now. What about a compromise? This isn't vaporware...getting opinions would be good

<LiamM> +1

<Zakim> EricE, you wanted to note that I’ve added the other tutorials, also that it is a more living document

Wayne: this is not an empty announcement; even our draft document is really solid

<shawn> in-progress

Eric: I think this is more of a "living document" and we should leverage github for developer comments

Paul: having it in github is likely to garner more developer interest

<Sharron> OK with announcing as work in progress

Shawn: are we comfortable announcing this as work in progress?

<Bim> +1

<yatil> +1

<Wayne> +1


<Howard_> +1

Jan: +1

<Sylvie> +1

Shawn: thanks for that!

Easy Checks

<LiamM> +1

<shawn> https://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/Easy_Checks#Move_updates_to_main_public_page_March_2014

<Howard_> I'm there

Shawn: are people ok with moving illustrations to main public Easy Checks page?

Wayne: is the expand all sections/collapse all sections a part of this? Contrast isn't great

Shawn: no, that's part of the general UI questions

<yatil> +1

<Howard_> +1

<Sharron> +1


<Bim> +1 to illustrations to main

<Wayne> +1

Jan: +1

<Bim> +1 to announcement

Shawn: should we make an announcement that we have an updated draft of Easy Checks?

Howard: reads comments from EO member in wiki

Shawn: any other thoughts on making an announcement?

ATAG Promotion

Shawn: Sharron, Paul and others have been working on this.

Sharron: ATAG promotion page has all the information about promotional ideas we've been working on
... Paul said Wayne's idea of haikus was actually pretty good

<Sharron> http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/Outreach_for_ATAG_2.0#CSUN_2014

Sharron: I've ordered buttons to hand out on the floor
... we have cards too with information about how people can get involved either via testing or implementation
... Judy said we needed something about the date on the cards. In the future, the cards may have less relevance
... Eric suggested something about shortening the links, are there any official ones that W3C uses?

Shawn: I can direct you to the right person...

<Sharron> http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/Outreach_for_ATAG_2.0#Help_ATAG2.0_Progress_to_Final_Recommendation

Sharron: we want to add a paragraph summarizing our progress
... maybe we should move progress notes to the top of the page to spur interest / involvement?

Shawn: does EO have any reactions to this material? Suggestions?

Jan: my division in Pearson is interested in helping with this effort at CSUN

Sharron: great!

<Bim> I like the Business Card text

Shawn: what would you think if you received this card at the conference?

<Zakim> shawn, you wanted to ask non-at vendors

Shawn: would addition of non-at vendor text in these materials be helpful or not?

Paul: I think implementation and testing messages are enough

<Sharron> http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/Outreach_for_ATAG_2.0#Consider_creation_of_new_support_material

Wayne: we'll be handing these out, so we can talk about these other details in-person when we hand them out

Shawn: Sharron, Paul, and Wayne can you work on the elevator pitch?

Sharron: we can do this during our Wednesday call

<Sharron> Sharron: Action to send invite for Wednesday afternoon call

Sharron: a braille version will be available at the Knowbility table

Shawn: when do you need card text finalized?

Sharron: we can get the cards done quickly...maybe a week before we leave? The braille is the harder part.

Shawn: it would be helpful if Jean could look at this before going to print...
... thanks for your help Sharron, Paul and Wayne!

CSUN Brunch Location

Shawn: we're meeting at the Solimar Hotel. It's a walk, but a long walk. Jan may be getting a van and I'll have a car.

Jan: I'm getting a van

Wayne: I have a friend who knows great places to eat in downtown SD. Will check on that.

Shawn: we will have about 8 people

Action Reminders

<shawn> https://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/Action_Items

Shawn: review of how EO is managing / tracking projects and who is doing what

<shawn> Everyone - You need to record done (or abstain) for all "Everyone" actions. You do *not* need to be picky and comment on every point -- you can put something like, "OK either way" or "no opinion" or such.

Shawn: if there's something you committed to do, your name is attached to it. For some things, everyone needs to comment

<shawn> Anyone - You are encouraged to do these, but not required.

Shawn: any suggestions on making this work better?
... each week, be sure to search for your name and those items marked "anyone" and "everyone"

Sharron: sometimes it's a little confusing with all the links and sections. It's a bit of a labyrinth at times

Wayne: I agree it's a little difficult to wade through at times

Shawn: don't let the wiki be a hindrance to commenting! Send comments by e-mail if that's your preferred mode of communicating.

<shawn> Sharron: we agreed it's OK to send by e-mail

Easy Checks Usability Testing

<shawn> "piblished draft" http://www.w3.org/WAI/eval/preliminary

<shawn> EOWG draft with in-progress updates http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/Drafts/eval/checks

<shawn> UT https://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/Easy_Checks#Usability_Testing

Shawn: Liam, would be great to have your input. We plan to do some usability testing at CSUN conference
... need everyone to go back and look through Easy Checks...we're really close to calling this project "done"

Sharron: we'll be doing some usability testing at the Knowbility table at the CSUN conference and taking notes. Bring a laptop and go through it with attendees.

Shawn: we have some things we want to test: illustrations, definitions of markup, page titles (less important). I'll prioritize a list.
... please spend some time with testing Easy Checks prior to CSUN!

Wayne: it may be helpful to have a pared-down version of Easy Checks that just shows "how you do it," without all the additional explanations

Shawn: please send an e-mail to the EO list. Making the explanations collapsible is a possible option that's easy to implement

Howard: our disabilities department might be able to provide useful feedback

EOWG meeting times next three weeks

Shawn: meeting times will be one hour different starting next week due to US daylight savings time change

<shawn> http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/Friday%207%20March%20teleconference

Shawn: any other topics for now?

<Bim> Regrets from me for next week

trackbot, end meeting

Summary of Action Items

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Default Present: Shawn, Bim, PaulSchantz, EricE, +1.512.797.aaaa, Sylvie_Duchateau, +44.137.383.aabb, Sharron, Liam, +1.512.731.aacc, Jan, +1.562.256.aadd, Wayne, Howard_
Present: Shawn Bim PaulSchantz EricE +1.512.797.aaaa Sylvie_Duchateau +44.137.383.aabb Sharron Liam +1.512.731.aacc Jan +1.562.256.aadd Wayne Howard_
Regrets: Anthony Andrew Shadi Vicki Anna Belle
Found Date: 07 Mar 2014
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2014/03/07-eo-minutes.html
People with action items: 

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