W3C

MINUTES

Education and Outreach Working Group Teleconference

24 Jan 2014

Summary

The weekly meeting began with a check in about the planned Face to Face meeting at CSUN. Wayne has identified and submitted a few possible venues. EO will meet on Sunday March 16th for brunch and determine sub group projects which some EO participants will continue to work on the next day. The full group will reconvene on Tuesday March 18th for an all day work session. Details on locations and exact times to follow. Next the group reviewed the status of everyone's action items and brought the lists up to date. Next AnnaBelle reported on her progress with the illustrations for the EasyChecks document. She is waiting for full code review, but the interim feedback is good. Mentioned the possibility of using GitHub and Shawn noted the need for internal traiining for the group before we can do that. AnnaBelle is creating an inventory table as a management tool for current and proposed illustrations and the volunteers who will help her create them. The group decided to hold off on reordering the EasyChecks or doing usability testing until the illustrations are final, hopefull in time for CSUN. Sylvie joined the call and the group did a brief discussion of her cmmnet, tabling further discussion until other comments are recieved. Shawn reminded group participants to adjust action items in wiki, update availability, and consider other documents that need review.

Agenda

  1. Action items, short term in wiki - review status of all
  2. Easy Checks illustrations (see Anna Belle's 17 Jan e-mail)
  3. UAAG review (including Implementing UAAG) - review and discuss comments
  4. Reviews in progress:
  5. (if needed) ATAG promotion

Attendees

Present
Shawn, AnnaBelle, Eric E, Sharron, Howard, HelleBJ, PaulSchantz, Vicki, Sylvie
Regrets
Jan, Emmanuelle, Anthony
Chair
Shawn
Scribe
Sharron

Contents


check on CSUN meeting dates

Shawn: The plan we discussed was to meet for brunch on Sunday, organize into subgroups from Monday work and meet again as a whole group on Tuesday

<shawn> Probably can attend: shawn, Sharron, Eric, Denis, Paul, Jan, Anna Belle, Anthony

<shawn> Maybe: Vicki, Shadi

Sharron: defintely Sun, Tuesday, not Monday

Howard: Tuesday afternoon

Paul: Sunday, no. Monday and Tuesday yes

AnnaBelle: any time

Eric: anytime, if we can have the tutorial as one of the things we work on I am available

Wayne: anytime

Vicki: It will be another week until I will know if I am coming at all, but if so, anytime is OK

Helle: If I came, I will be flexible
... I will try to get permission to spend one day at CSUN but the main focus will be EO

Jan: available Sunday and Tuesday

Howard: could probably make it by midmorning Tuesday

Action Item Check

<shawn> http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/Action_Items

Andrew: Is going to review user requirements and comment on EasyChecks

AnnaBelle: working on Illustrations

Anthony: Has a deadline of today to review UAAG

Vicki: I have that action as well and will be done by Sunday

Eric: Will be done by next week

Helle: Completed her actions

Shawn: Yay!

Howard: I will get to my open actions on training. I did review Illustrations. I am a bit behind becasue of teaching a course solo

Shawn: I have a volunteer to help with the trainings, so it will be good to get that input.

Howard: I think I had some questions about what I was supposed to do but will review

Shawn: Jan has some minute review etc

Paul: I am reviewing auto and semi-auto testing tools. Trying to bootstrap the thinking process now - it's HARD!

Shawn: You also had media accessibility as a requirement

Paul: I can get that done today

<shawn> paul's http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/Action_Items#Paul

Shawn: Can you put the YouTube captioning instructions for
... Mac, it would be helpful

Howard: There is a bug that makes it not reliably accessible from the Windows standpoint

Shawn: Doing EasyChecks and reviewing UAAG comments

Sylvie completed hers

Vicki: You will get the UAAG review this weekend? good

Wayne: Is done with the CSUN venues and will review UAAG

Easy Checks Illustrations

<shawn> http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/Easy_Checks_-_Illustrations

AnnaBelle: Let's look at the email of the 17th
... there are three parts to the current action
... first is a light code review which Paul and Eric were assigned. I don't need everyone to do it, but do need a few. Eric are you able to do that anytime soon?

Eric: I noted in the wiki that I don't like the inline styles but understand why it is necessary. Otherwise the code seems fine.

AnnaBelle: That's good to hear, thank you. Shall we get at least one other person to review the code?

Sharron: Did we decide not to ask Derek for this?

AnnaBelle: I would rather save Derek's time for when we do Responsive.
... I feel like we have such a high benchmark I just want to be sure

Shawn: Sharron, can you check in with Denis?

Sharron: Yes will do

Annabelle: One question, I am getting better using Git, can we use it as a repository for this?

Shawn: Yes

Eric: I am actually using it for the tutorials since it is so easy to use. I will check with Michael Cooper but think we really should look more closely at using GitHub

<yatil> https://github.com/w3c

Shawn: If we are going to use that we shuld hold an internal training session about how to use it.

AnnaBelle: To my way of thinking, if the code is no good, there is no point in doing browser tests. But since we have confidence in the code, we asked for some browser tests - thanks Helle and others for contributing

<AnnaBelle> http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/Easy_Checks_-_Illustrations#Test_Results_for_Version_11

<HelleBJ> yes

AnnaBelle: So looking through the comments, I established an account with browserstack so we can review in real time

<yatil> IE9 is fine

AnnaBelle: From your comment, I think you are saying Vicki that it is working as it is supposed to but you don't like the way it is meant to work

Vicki: When they are side by side, it can be confusing about which is first, second, third in sequence. You pause for a moment of confusion

Shawn: Is that specific to that one image?

AnnaBelle: Looks like many of these have been reviewed, thanks everyone - even Amaya?!

Shawn: That may just be a validation thing

AnnaBelle: Where we left it was that we will start using the metview port only when we move to HTML5 and true responsive design..is that alright?

Eric: Yes I guess it is OK but the mobile version will shrink the text so much, I wonder if it is OK?

AnnaBelle: We made that decision based on research that shows that this kind of reference will not be made on mobile devices, but that people will save the actual examination of the detail to a larger screen environment. I really, really am grateful to everyone for this work - thanks so much! I feel like we have validated and are ready to move forward with this code, how do others feel?

Eric: OK

<shawn> +1

<Vicki> +1

<yatil> +1

<Howard> +1

<paulscha_> +1

<HelleBJ> +1

Sharron: +1

<AnnaBelle> http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/Easy_Checks_-_Illustrations#Illustration_inventory_23_Jan.2C_2014:

AnnaBelle: Looking at what is already there for illustration ideas, I have begun to add comments
... I did not expect to get this far by today and wonder what is next? Do we go through this inventory and make determinations?

Shawn: Can you let us know which are the ones you are not sure of?

AnnaBelle: look at the places where I put @@ For example under image text alternatives...

<AnnaBelle> http://www.w3.org/WAI/eval/preliminary#images

Shawn: Let's go to EasyChecks images section
... to check alt with any browser, that's where we are

AnnaBelle: I found the example after a bit of confusion, seems like high noise to signal on this

Shawn: It is instructions for using WAVE
... the purpose was to help people find what they are looking for. Should we just say that - it may be hard to figure it out. In that case we would need a really good caption to frame it.

AnnaBelle: I would like to sign off over every single image once the code is approved and put in place. How do we assign images for review by specific people and get final signoff?

Shawn: Before we go there, can we keep going on the inventory?

Shawn: did you include the places where we have [image] as a place needing images but not yet drafted?

AnnaBelle: I did not, will add those.

Shawn: And should we look for other places where we think we may need illustrations?
... and take references that are not for images to the wiki

AnnaBelle: Under contrast ratio,

<AnnaBelle> http://www.w3.org/WAI/eval/preliminary#contrast

AnnaBelle: "Grey text on light backgound" may not be specific enough, grey text can be quite dark

Shawn: Put that kind of text edit in the other wiki page please

AnnaBelle: There are inconsistencies about how we approach the need for images

Shawn: Yes that is part of the big picture questions - are we only putting images where we are addressing inherant confusion?
... you did inventory existing images. Can you take a pass at looking for other possibilitites where we may want to add images.

AnnaBelle: I think we can address first priority items and decide if it risks becoming too image heavy by looking at second priority items.

<shawn> +1

<Vicki> +1

<yatil> +1

<Howard> +1

<paulscha_> +1

Shawn: So you will add to the table a place for designating priority?

AnnaBelle: Yes and will try to include some logic for the choices
... I noticed in Forms and Labels

<AnnaBelle> http://www.w3.org/WAI/eval/preliminary#forms

AnnaBelle: that there were several little images. I tend to think of them as not falling within the scope of the larger illustations, what do you think?

Shawn: I think they should be in the inventory

AnnaBelle: OK will do. The big question then is how do we assign images to people to work on?

Shawn: We need volunteers

<Howard> reviewing or creating?

<paulscha_> I can create pretty much whatever you want, just let me know what you want

AnnaBelle: Would it make sense for people to step up for areas in which they have particular interest or expertise?

<Vicki> can also help

Shawn: Paul will help, Howard asks if it is create or review

Vicki: I can help

Shawn: How to divy up the inventory?

<HelleBJ> +q

AnnaBelle: I can add a column and people can sign up for what is interesting to them

Eric: I can add screen shots as well. Wanted to remind people to align the tools that we use for screenshots so they look the same

<Vicki> i totally agree: size, tools, etc.

<Zakim> shawn, you wanted to mention "Watch" wiki page changes and to consistency & browsers & parameters

Shawn: Important is capture tools, browsers used, consistency. before we get started, everyone must be clear about the parameters and how to grey out noise, etc
... I have concerns that we may have trouble with consistency

AnnaBelle: I really want people to make decisions about how they would like to see it. Maybe we should start with everyone doing just one and seeing what comes out. We will then get to see different approaches and choose among them.

Paul: But we want parameters in order to be able to meet expectation.

AnnaBelle: Well we have differences in preferences - some like arrows, some don't ; some like greyed out, some don't.

Shawn: Did we not figure that out?

AnnaBelle: Not really we agreed that different approaches may be needed for different circumstances
... you can almost always know that the first image will nto work, that's how design works
... if people want to assign images that are already made, and suggest what needs to be changed

Shawn: Many of the existing images meet the requirements, don't need to be changed.

AnnaBelle: I agree but we need to make that determination. So maybe the next step is to get the code in place for the existing images

Shawn: Yes, in the inventory list let's make note of those that are done, only need code or captions etc. And note which need review and probably revision.
... we will want very clear instruction for any volunteers who are willing to help with the illustrations. To avoid redundant effort and frustration. We may decide that we will narrow down the volunteers for the sake of consistency.

<shawn> http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/Easy_Checks_-_Illustrations#For_Jan._24_teleconference

<AnnaBelle> http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/Easy_Checks_-_Illustrations#Draft_Illustration_Schedule

Shawn: You can make a setting that allows you to be notified anytime the page is changed
... and set your preferences set to email so you will be sent email when the page is updated

<Eric> It's really handy :-)

AnnaBelle: So for the draft schedule, in order to meet the CSUN deadline, we are pretty much on schedule. Not quite ready to assign volunteers

Shawn: So if we set the parameters clearly, we may need fewer review cycles.

<AnnaBelle> http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/Easy_Checks_-_Illustrations#Strategy_agreed_on.2C_5_August_2013

AnnaBelle: On the test pages, there was a border within the image itself. I stripped it out and I prefer not to do it.

Shawn: Those were intended to be screen captures of a browser window and they will have browser borders.

AnnaBelle: Yes and that is fine
... I will add to the strategies - no borders except browser borders in screen shots (don't add borders to images). Change the figure width from 712 pixels to 676 pixels

Shawn: That is making images a lot smaller for everyone so that it works on mobile devices

AQnnaBelle: Yes we will have to be creative in how we crop images etc.

Shawn: That seems to gives us a LOT more work

<shawn> http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/Drafts/eval/checks#illustrationeg1

Shawn: will everyone follow this link
... and look at the illustration workup Draft

<Howard> looks okay to me

<paulscha_> looks good to me

<paulscha_> scales pretty well too

Eric: Yes, it looks fine, it is large enough, you could even resize the text as needed.
... yes, I agree this is good

Vicki: When I was veiwing it on mobile devices it was a little small. On desktop it is fine

<HelleBJ> Ok on my laptop

Shawn: OK then we will go with that unless we have any objections
... any other comments or questions on illustrations?

<Vicki> +1 for champion

UAAG review

Shawn: Sylvie has done a thorough review and added some questions for us to discuss. Shall we go through those now Sylvie?

<shawn> http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/UAAG_review

<shawn> http://www.w3.org/TR/UAAG20/#gl-text-config

Sylvie: I took an example and wonder would it be more logical to classify by priority levels?
... in section 1.6 and 2.3 and 3.2 the order of discussion does not relate to priority level
... also 4.1

Shawn: My guess is that they are grouped by what things are rather than by level. Since WCAG is related by level some related issues are spearated from each other.
... like keyboard operation separated from keyboard focus indication

Sharron: Yes it is worth considering whether it is better to organize according to topic/issue or by WCAG priority level.

<Howard> yes

Shawn: Issue is that there are related issues within one topic area that are different priority levels

<HelleBJ> noting on UAAG

Sharron: There will be confusion either way. Should they not pick one and stick to it?

Shawn: It is by topic but the ones that are higher priority are placed first
... Does it need to be mentioned that we noticed the organization by topic rather than level?
... no strong feelings?

Helle: I think it depends on how you are working with these things. In a situation where you are focused on the topics, this is good. But if you are looking for specific level of conformance you may want that.

Shawn: Proposal is that we are OK with the way it is ordered and do not mention it to UAAG.

Sharron: +1

<Howard> +1

<yatil> +1

<Vicki> +1

<HelleBJ> +1

<paulscha_> +1

Sylvie: It is OK with me

<Vicki> me

Shawn: Since we have other UAAG comments coming in, I would like to ask everyone to take a look and we can go through them more rapidly next week rather than do double review.

Reminder of Reviews in Progress

Shawn: Sharron will send reminders to those who had signed up for review. In the meantime, group participants can review Sylvies comments and look for updates.

Helle: What updates about F2F

Shawn: I will post that Sunday works

Helle: Will that be all day Sunday?

Shawn: Yes, Sunday brunch starting time

Helle: I will see if I can get it sorted out.

Shawn: Menwhile everyone try to stay current with actions and update availability for conference call. Thanks have a good weekend.

Summary of Action Items

[End of minutes]

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