<trackbot> Date: 12 December 2013

zakin, agenda+ Actions Overdue

<tmichel> I am coming ...

<scribe> scribeNick: nigel

<pal> i am present

<tmichel> I am here too

<pal> let me know if you would like input on specific item

<tmichel> zaki, who is here?

IANA Registration

nigel: we did get a response from IANA saying their relevant expert is looking at our request.
... plh do you know more?

plh: we don't have a timeline for when IANA will respond.
... I'll talk to our main IETF contact, Mark Nottingham to see if he can do something about it.

Actions pending review

Charter

plh: I have some non-substantive changes from W3C management on the charter, mostly clarifications e.g. in the scope we can change a should to a must without adding technical requirements to the spec.
... It's important to separate the two use cases of video description and captions, so they're in two tracks. It's out of TTML's scope to specify track switching.

nigel: video description might need new features.
... such as pan and fade timing metadata, pronunciation guidance etc.
... especially if the requirement is to support text to speech
... e.g. language models and other technical features.
... We need to have the requirements clear before we make video description a SHALL vs a SHOULD.

plh: will feed this back.
... the VTT milestone will need to take into account the charter approval delay

tmichel: also the CR review period is short

plh: can write a note to the TTWG to explain the edits

pal: what is the process now? do we have a timeline?

plh: Unfortunately I can't give a clear answer due to the document license issue.
... The AB discussed the document license this week. The AB did not oppose the idea of applying the HTML experimentation to WebVTT.
... so David Singer can do this. This means I have to spend time resolving potential issues raised by members.
... At the face to face meeting at TPAC the MS rep was unable to handle this kind of issue.

jdsmith: I believe there's been discussion at MS but I don't know the position so far.

plh: the other question is for W3 Management: there are considerations in terms of extending the experiment and opening up the possibility for other groups to take the same approach.
... I need to discuss this with the director.
... So this delays the charter submission until at least early January.

pal: Let me know if there's any way I can help resolve this because a number of other organisations are looking forward to IMSC and need a draft for referencing purposes.

nigel: is it possible to split the TTML issues from the WebVTT issue, or would it be considered poor form by reviewers?

plh: I can ask but it would be awkward.

pal: If this gets to January and this isn't resolved will there be a point where it is better to split the charter than proceed without a definite date?

plh: I believe so yes

action-240?

<trackbot> action-240 -- David Singer to Consider the problem of the license change from cg to wg, with the ac and ab and staff -- due 2013-11-22 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/240

nigel: I need to formally note to this group the query on behalf of David Singer: would existing members of the WG object to the WebVTT rec being published with the CG license?
... not necessarily to answer right now but formally tabled.

plh: David would like to give the WG the choice for WebVTT docs as to which license they're published under. He wants a CG-compatible license.

pal: Yes but this is a WG not a CG.

plh: That's true. The one used by the CG is not used by the HTML experiment (CC-By 3). I'd need to get legal advice on whether it's compatible with the CG license.

pal: I'm happy to review an updated proposal, but not to do a lot of work and then find that it changes.

plh: I don't think it's going to be acceptable to allow the WG to choose the license freely.

Current wording is at: http://www.w3.org/2013/12/timed-text-charter-david.html

nigel: this could change.

plh: If we extend the HTML experiment then every WG member can object to the selected license.

<plh> http://www.w3.org/2013/09/html-charter.html#documentlicense

pal: about to drop off.

PAL issues

issue-295

<trackbot> issue-295 -- Remove code point restrictions from IMSC -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/295

issue-296

<trackbot> issue-296 -- Remove xml:lang placement restrictions from IMSC -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/296

pal: revision this week is intended to address these two issues. xml:lang constraint removed as discussed at TPAC.
... Character set work: I studied CLDR and the CLDR main set is a near-perfect subset of previous Annex A so I've refactored the document to be a superset of CLDR mainset.
... So all chars in CLDR main sets may be used by authors plus an additional set useful in captioning and subtitle applications.
... This edit is therefore the proposal.

nigel: The main objector (who relaxed his objection) was Glenn so we'll leave these as Pending Review for his input.

pal: the next work is to factor in the profiles work when it has been put into TTML2

<scribe> ACTION: pal to add an issue for tracking purposes to refactor IMSC to conform to the content profile specification of TTML2 dependent on TTML2 profile updates. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/12/12-tt-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-252 - Add an issue for tracking purposes to refactor imsc to conform to the content profile specification of ttml2 dependent on ttml2 profile updates. [on Pierre-Anthony Lemieux - due 2013-12-19].

pal: expects no substantive change but may need to do some shuffling about.

action-220?

<trackbot> action-220 -- Pierre-Anthony Lemieux to Investigate actual css behavior further regarding whether line height of individual lines are affected by font size on line as opposed to maximum over paragraph -- due 2013-10-24 -- PENDINGREVIEW

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/220

pal: can close - next step is to review edits

close action-220

<trackbot> Closed action-220.

action-243

<trackbot> action-243 -- Pierre-Anthony Lemieux to Edit dsinger's proposed wording which captures the intent. -- due 2013-12-12 -- PENDINGREVIEW

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/243

This action should also be reviewed by all prior to closure - leaving at Pending Review specifically to give Glenn Adams the opportunity

Charter

action-246

<trackbot> action-246 -- Nigel Megitt to Take deliverables of draft charter to tag for scrutiny -- due 2013-11-28 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/246

nigel: still open for me, dependent on the revised wording.

action-248?

<trackbot> action-248 -- Philippe Le Hégaret to Add atsc to the ttml charter -- due 2013-12-12 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/248

nigel: may be dependent on Mike to give ATSC details or plh can add something himself.

plh: Others too?

nigel: Yes, following Mark Vickers emails. E.g. HbbTV
... note that BBC is a member of HbbTV
... Mark Vickers still has this action.

plh: note that anyone can comment during review of the LC

action on nigel to send plh updated wording for the EBU paragraph

<trackbot> Error finding 'on'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/users>.

<scribe> ACTION: nigel to send plh updated wording for the EBU paragraph [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/12/12-tt-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-253 - Send plh updated wording for the ebu paragraph [on Nigel Megitt - due 2013-12-19].

Due next week actions

Actions pending review

action-180?

<trackbot> action-180 -- Glenn Adams to Ensure that 10REC errata page is cleared after 10SE is published as REC. -- due 2014-10-15 -- PENDINGREVIEW

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/180

close action-180

<trackbot> Closed action-180.

action-203?

<trackbot> action-203 -- Glenn Adams to Investigate 708 border style mapping issues with mike's help -- due 2013-09-26 -- PENDINGREVIEW

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/203

action-204

<trackbot> action-204 -- Glenn Adams to Add sideways{left,right} then close issue-159 -- due 2013-09-26 -- PENDINGREVIEW

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/204

issue-159?

<trackbot> issue-159 -- Text orientation in I18n script processing -- closed

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/159

close action-204

<trackbot> Closed action-204.

action-207

<trackbot> action-207 -- Glenn Adams to Add round-down clarification to "closest" language, see issue-259 -- due 2013-09-26 -- PENDINGREVIEW

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/207

issue-259

<trackbot> issue-259 -- Define "closest" -- pending review

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/259

<pal> yes

<pal> let me check

<pal> yes

<pal> please carry on while I check

action-208?

<trackbot> action-208 -- Glenn Adams to Add note to issue-275 linking to follow-on changelist which changed to 125% and made a note in ttml1 -- due 2013-09-26 -- PENDINGREVIEW

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/208

issue-275

<trackbot> issue-275 -- Improve compatibility with line height 'normal' and CSS/XSL-FO implementations. -- closed

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/275

<plh> https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ttml/rev/11d2d5dcb5a1

close action-208

<trackbot> Closed action-208.

action-214

<trackbot> action-214 -- Glenn Adams to Review cp008 and consider reformulating the recently added <animate> support to better align -- due 2013-10-10 -- PENDINGREVIEW

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/214

mijordan: may need to have longer to review this.

action-219

<trackbot> action-219 -- Glenn Adams to Change to rec in ttml2, and add note to authors indicating that if author wants specific value, then they should specify specific value -- due 2013-10-24 -- PENDINGREVIEW

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/219

https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ttml/rev/4b056bc52a0d

<pal> yes still looking at 259

<pal> what is 219?

<pal> specific value of what?

<pal> ok good

<pal> so i think Mike Dolan will have input

<pal> recommend not closing

nigel: okay will leave at pending review

action-220?

<trackbot> action-220 -- Pierre-Anthony Lemieux to Investigate actual css behavior further regarding whether line height of individual lines are affected by font size on line as opposed to maximum over paragraph -- due 2013-10-24 -- CLOSED

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/220

nigel: we've covered this

action-221

<trackbot> action-221 -- Glenn Adams to Double check spec language on css and xsl-fo around line height stacking strategy -- due 2013-10-24 -- PENDINGREVIEW

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/221

<pal> re: 259, Glenn implemented something close but different than recommended.

<pal> I would like to understand why

<pal> before closing it

<pal> great improvement though

<pal> specifically, farthest from 0 != round-up

<pal> for negative values

nigel: we covered 221 already too, related to line height. Leaving at pending review as per 220

issue-259?

<trackbot> issue-259 -- Define "closest" -- pending review

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/259

<pal> sure

nigel: pal was agreeing to my request to add a note to issue-259 stating this small variant to what Glenn implemented.
... i.e. to handle negative values as well as positive ones in round-up

action-233?

<trackbot> action-233 -- Glenn Adams to Reach out to CSS WG to understand potential mapping of multi-row-align to CSS -- due 2013-11-18 -- PENDINGREVIEW

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/233

<mijordan> Unfortunately, I have to break off now.

plh: we may not have a quorum to deal with all these actions

nigel: okay what can we do?

action-164?

<trackbot> action-164 -- Jerry Smith to Investigate interop issues using CSS familyName constructs -- due 2013-12-05 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/164

jdsmith: has talked to Sean and is still investigating. Need Glenn to discuss further.

plh: Glenn said that XML already has an escape mechanism so we don't need the CSS one too. The drawback is that you can't just transfer the text value into a CSS parser.

jdsmith: I've isolated a contact in MS and will follow up.

plh: Without any change an implementation has to de-escape the XML font family name, then use CSS escaping rules to transfer to a CSS parser. There's a burden both ways.
... there's a bit more code required on authoring tools for anyone generating TTML if we change the current mechanism.

nigel: Is this a request to restrict the fontFamily names to those that do not need additional escaping?

jdsmith: I just need to check the status on this.

action-249?

<trackbot> action-249 -- Glenn Adams to Follow up on action-220, possibly opening new issue -- due 2013-12-12 -- PENDINGREVIEW

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/249

close action-249

<trackbot> Closed action-249.

action-141

<trackbot> action-141 -- Nigel Megitt to Call for Action to identify discrepancies in TTML 1.0 on different profiles. -- due 2013-02-14 -- PENDINGREVIEW

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/141

issue-162

<trackbot> issue-162 -- update standalone profile documents -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/162

http://www.w3.org/mid/CECF5778.163CC%252525nigel.megitt%2540bbc.co.uk

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2013Dec/0036.html

plh: happy to accept the initial proposal.
... See if anyone complains!

nigel: that would create a problem we couldn't solve.

aob?

<pal> I am available

<pal> i would ask Glenn and Mike

nigel: Availability for next week?

<pal> directly

nigel: I will confirm with Glenn and Mike too
... looking ahead I propose not to have a meeting on 26th December or 2nd January
... next week's meeting will happen unless I notify otherwise

This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.138  of Date: 2013-04-25 13:59:11  
Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/

Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Succeeded: s/adopt/extend/
Found ScribeNick: nigel
Inferring Scribes: nigel
Default Present: pal, tm, nigel, mijordan, Plh, [Microsoft]
Present: pal tm nigel mijordan Plh jdsmith
Regrets: glenn_adams andreas_tai mike_dolan
Found Date: 12 Dec 2013
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2013/12/12-tt-minutes.html
People with action items: nigel pal