Breakout: Better Participation in W3C

13 Nov 2013

See also: IRC log




<adrianba> Adrian Bateman, Microsoft

<Rayberg> Lei Zhixing, From Baidu.

<Qiuling> Qiuling Pan, from Huawei

<Yuer> Min Yue, from Baidu

<kennyluck> Kang-Hao (Kenny) Lu, from Opera/Oupeng.

<AnnBassetti> http://www.w3.org/wiki/Main_Page

<yosuke> http://www.w3.org/wiki/Encouraging-Participation

<yosuke> Yosuke Funahashi, Tomo-Digi

<koaliie> a beginner's introduction to IRC for W3C Meetings

<AnnBassetti> project suggested by Dom: http://www.w3.org/wiki/Headlights2014/OnBoarding

<koaliie> Headlights2014/OnBoarding

<BaopingCheng> Baoping Cheng, from China Mobile.

<scribe> scribenick: koalie

<AnnBassetti> Ann: now what?

AnnB: What topics do you want to cover?

KennyLu: I have several ones in the category of languages
... including people speak too fast, use jargon, etc.

<adrianba> http://www.w3.org/wiki/Languages

KennyLu: We realized chinese people don't have much experience with mailing list
... this might apply as well with Japanese people

AnnB: May I ask why? isn't mail used?

KennyLu: my experience is that people don't use them
... but they do use chat rooms

<Qiuling> maillist is used a lot in my company

QiulingPan: We have MLs in my company

KennyLu: cultural differences may be a key point here.

Qiuling: We use MLs a lot inside the company

LeiZhixing: In Baidu we use instant chat. And we hardly ever use English.

BernardGidon: Introduce the purpose of a mailing list
... Sometimes American people introduce information in a very short way, and we need to explain afterwards

<hiroto_> Hiroto Yahagi, from W3C

Bernard: I am here to understand in which way you manage communications with people using different languages

KennyLu: We can have CGs for each language
... The japanese Interest Group has the most chance of success because it have participants from Google and Apple already, but it needs more discussion on it.
... Google has a chrome team in Japan

AnnB: If I understand, in the case of a large group of people who use a language, why not have a chat room or CG that would be in that language

YosukeFunahashi: [speaking for the IG he's in] In japanese culture people hesitate to state their opinion
... W3C Can encourage that it's OK to say an opinion

<kennyluck> Japanese Interest Group mailing list archive -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-ig-jp/

Yosuke: At the time of the automotive F2F meeting, here's what I did
... Japanese people tend to represent their company

<sam_sugimoto_w3c> They are usually scared of speaking in English. They have their opinion. We can ask each person to get his/her opinion.

Yosuke: so I told them that for their personal opinion they don't need to state this is their personal opinion, but,
... when they represent their company's opinion, then, they should state so.

<sam_sugimoto_w3c> They don't want to stop speakers and ask him/her to speak more slowly.

@@@: I've been in my company a couple month and I'm not an engineer

AnnB: I'm not an engineer either; happy to talk offline.
... Connecting and liaisons between W3C and our company is a good topic

@@@: in my company, engineers are very busy. They have interest but not time to devote in the org.

Qiuling: Yes, indeed.
... W3C activities sometimes isn't close to them
... to join the w3c work actively for the company, some need to have clear benefits
... find main points for them to join is a requirement in this case

AnnB: How do we encourage people whose work isn't directly web-based?

Qiuling: you can organize discussions between these people

Sam: are mailing lists OK for that?

Qiuling: Maybe. But not if there's too much e-mail.

AnnB: it's a skill to know which ones you can ignore, and which you have to pay attention to.

Kenny: re: clear benefits, in some cases you don't need them. e.g. just naming an API name is enough for encouraging joining
... one goal is to have more people (although not many) who can speak up for a local area (like Funahashi-san for the Japanese), but another is to get more people to participate in some Mailing Lists (unlike www-style which is a well-subscribed list)

Baoping-Cheng-ChinaMobile: I agree with several of Kenny's points on languages
... We can try to set approach of W3C
... There is now a Host in Beijing; this group can give directions concerning W3C

AnnB: so setting up language-based lists would help?

BaopingCheng: Yes.

Yosuke: Engineers are always busy. W3C maybe need to help, based on the Buddy system (such like the one there is for new Members at AC Meetings)

AnnB: A mentor.

Yosuke: W3C Team provides info to AC rep who relays inside their company

AnnB: In Boeing we do have a mentor system, but also a reverse-mentor system,
... a younger person (who has been at Boeing at least 5 yrs) mentors an older person e.g. on new technologies

[scribe challenged by extra slow and laggy network]

Bernard: I sometimes wonder how much "busy" is an excuse to participate.

masahiro: I concur engirneers are busy, some talented engineers are in companies who are not W3C Members.

Shoko: Catching the Process is difficult. I participate in WebRTC.
... Who to ask?

AnnB: Most people feel embarrassed to ask questions. If you had a buddy that you could specifically ask question to, would that help?

Shoko: Yes!

Qiuling: You have to solve a number of questions and problems before you can participate in a WG

Yosuke: concierge in a WG that you would receive participants questions?

Coralie: How does the concierge differ from the WG staff contact?

<AnnB> Quiling: a 'buddy' helps with process questions .. but not with technical understanding

Bernard: How I understand it is that this person is using the same language as the person they're mentoring

Lei: One suggestion is a channel for "freshmen"

[several in the room like the suggestion]

Hiroto: some words have several meaning; it takes time to use translation systems. So someone to help with language.

Sam: When someone speaks fast, we want to remind them to slow down before they start their presentation.

Qiuling: We can have a link to identify who can help; e-mail address, phone number, what topic they specialize in and would answer questions.

AnnB: A directory.
... not necessarily the staff
... but anybody willing to answer questions on a particular topic

AdrianBateman: It's been hard to sit here for an hour, as an english-speaker, and remain quiet
... Interesting to hear contrasts and similarities
... Interesting point on people representing their employer's position as default; I'm used more to the opposite
... It would be interesting to find buddies within the companies
... especially across different cultures
... it's my first time in China, great experience, I'd welcome the opportunity to have a buddy in a Chinese company
... match-make is my suggestion.

Adrian: Also, jargon used in some groups makes it difficult for me to contribute
... that's different from a language problem

EliotGraff: Ditto what Adrien said
... themes I heard: reaching out, showing reasons and opportunities for people to join
... Some don't feel they don't have the time in their work day
... also, inabiity for people to get in an established group
... and negotiate the process, systems and technology as well.
... so a freshmen service, mentoring, are great ideas.
... lowering those barriers, including the one of thinking this group's participants are geniuses, helps.

Bernard: Everyone here around the table has spoken. It shows it can be done.

Summary of Action Items

[End of minutes]

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        <dbooth> Present+ amy

Got date from IRC log name: 13 Nov 2013
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2013/11/13-participate-minutes.html
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