See also: IRC log
<adrianba> Adrian Bateman, Microsoft
<Rayberg> Lei Zhixing, From Baidu.
<Qiuling> Qiuling Pan, from Huawei
<Yuer> Min Yue, from Baidu
<kennyluck> Kang-Hao (Kenny) Lu, from Opera/Oupeng.
<yosuke> Yosuke Funahashi, Tomo-Digi
<AnnBassetti> project suggested by Dom: http://www.w3.org/wiki/Headlights2014/OnBoarding
<BaopingCheng> Baoping Cheng, from China Mobile.
<scribe> scribenick: koalie
<AnnBassetti> Ann: now what?
AnnB: What topics do you want to cover?
KennyLu: I have several ones in
the category of languages
... including people speak too fast, use jargon, etc.
KennyLu: We realized chinese
people don't have much experience with mailing list
... this might apply as well with Japanese people
AnnB: May I ask why? isn't mail used?
KennyLu: my experience is that
people don't use them
... but they do use chat rooms
<Qiuling> maillist is used a lot in my company
QiulingPan: We have MLs in my company
KennyLu: cultural differences may be a key point here.
Qiuling: We use MLs a lot inside the company
LeiZhixing: In Baidu we use instant chat. And we hardly ever use English.
BernardGidon: Introduce the
purpose of a mailing list
... Sometimes American people introduce information in a very short way, and we need to explain afterwards
<hiroto_> Hiroto Yahagi, from W3C
Bernard: I am here to understand in which way you manage communications with people using different languages
KennyLu: We can have CGs for each
... The japanese Interest Group has the most chance of success because it have participants from Google and Apple already, but it needs more discussion on it.
... Google has a chrome team in Japan
AnnB: If I understand, in the case of a large group of people who use a language, why not have a chat room or CG that would be in that language
YosukeFunahashi: [speaking for
the IG he's in] In japanese culture people hesitate to state
... W3C Can encourage that it's OK to say an opinion
<kennyluck> Japanese Interest Group mailing list archive -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-ig-jp/
Yosuke: At the time of the
automotive F2F meeting, here's what I did
... Japanese people tend to represent their company
<sam_sugimoto_w3c> They are usually scared of speaking in English. They have their opinion. We can ask each person to get his/her opinion.
Yosuke: so I told them that for
their personal opinion they don't need to state this is their
personal opinion, but,
... when they represent their company's opinion, then, they should state so.
<sam_sugimoto_w3c> They don't want to stop speakers and ask him/her to speak more slowly.
@@@: I've been in my company a couple month and I'm not an engineer
AnnB: I'm not an engineer either;
happy to talk offline.
... Connecting and liaisons between W3C and our company is a good topic
@@@: in my company, engineers are very busy. They have interest but not time to devote in the org.
Qiuling: Yes, indeed.
... W3C activities sometimes isn't close to them
... to join the w3c work actively for the company, some need to have clear benefits
... find main points for them to join is a requirement in this case
AnnB: How do we encourage people whose work isn't directly web-based?
Qiuling: you can organize discussions between these people
Sam: are mailing lists OK for that?
Qiuling: Maybe. But not if there's too much e-mail.
AnnB: it's a skill to know which ones you can ignore, and which you have to pay attention to.
Kenny: re: clear benefits, in
some cases you don't need them. e.g. just naming an API name is
enough for encouraging joining
... one goal is to have more people (although not many) who can speak up for a local area (like Funahashi-san for the Japanese), but another is to get more people to participate in some Mailing Lists (unlike www-style which is a well-subscribed list)
agree with several of Kenny's points on languages
... We can try to set approach of W3C
... There is now a Host in Beijing; this group can give directions concerning W3C
AnnB: so setting up language-based lists would help?
Yosuke: Engineers are always busy. W3C maybe need to help, based on the Buddy system (such like the one there is for new Members at AC Meetings)
AnnB: A mentor.
Yosuke: W3C Team provides info to AC rep who relays inside their company
AnnB: In Boeing we do have a
mentor system, but also a reverse-mentor system,
... a younger person (who has been at Boeing at least 5 yrs) mentors an older person e.g. on new technologies
[scribe challenged by extra slow and laggy network]
Bernard: I sometimes wonder how much "busy" is an excuse to participate.
masahiro: I concur engirneers are busy, some talented engineers are in companies who are not W3C Members.
Shoko: Catching the Process is
difficult. I participate in WebRTC.
... Who to ask?
AnnB: Most people feel embarrassed to ask questions. If you had a buddy that you could specifically ask question to, would that help?
Qiuling: You have to solve a number of questions and problems before you can participate in a WG
Yosuke: concierge in a WG that you would receive participants questions?
Coralie: How does the concierge differ from the WG staff contact?
<AnnB> Quiling: a 'buddy' helps with process questions .. but not with technical understanding
Bernard: How I understand it is that this person is using the same language as the person they're mentoring
Lei: One suggestion is a channel for "freshmen"
[several in the room like the suggestion]
Hiroto: some words have several meaning; it takes time to use translation systems. So someone to help with language.
Sam: When someone speaks fast, we want to remind them to slow down before they start their presentation.
Qiuling: We can have a link to identify who can help; e-mail address, phone number, what topic they specialize in and would answer questions.
AnnB: A directory.
... not necessarily the staff
... but anybody willing to answer questions on a particular topic
AdrianBateman: It's been hard to
sit here for an hour, as an english-speaker, and remain
... Interesting to hear contrasts and similarities
... Interesting point on people representing their employer's position as default; I'm used more to the opposite
... It would be interesting to find buddies within the companies
... especially across different cultures
... it's my first time in China, great experience, I'd welcome the opportunity to have a buddy in a Chinese company
... match-make is my suggestion.
Adrian: Also, jargon used in some
groups makes it difficult for me to contribute
... that's different from a language problem
EliotGraff: Ditto what Adrien
... themes I heard: reaching out, showing reasons and opportunities for people to join
... Some don't feel they don't have the time in their work day
... also, inabiity for people to get in an established group
... and negotiate the process, systems and technology as well.
... so a freshmen service, mentoring, are great ideas.
... lowering those barriers, including the one of thinking this group's participants are geniuses, helps.
Bernard: Everyone here around the table has spoken. It shows it can be done.
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.138 of Date: 2013-04-25 13:59:11 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/ense/nese/ Succeeded: s/@@/LeiZhixing/ Succeeded: s/Huawei/Baidu/ Succeeded: s/I told them j/J/ Succeeded: s/Google and @@@/Google and Apple already/ Succeeded: s/cas/case/ Succeeded: s/WGs/Mailing Lists/ Succeeded: s/CSS/www-style/ Succeeded: s/represented WG/subscribed list/ Succeeded: s/ChinaUnicom/ChinaMobile/ Succeeded: s/one goal is to have silent people speak more/one goal is to have more people (although not many) who can speak up for a local area (like Funahashi-san for the Japanese)/ Succeeded: s/@@@@/Baoping-Cheng/ Succeeded: s/neersare/neers are/ Succeeded: s/tealen/talen/ Succeeded: s/ycan/you can/ Succeeded: s/h/ is using the same language as the person they're mentoring/ Succeeded: s/tyt o/ty to/ Succeeded: s/withing/within/ Succeeded: s/cop/comp/ Succeeded: s/help/helps/ Succeeded: s/<koalie> ->/<koaliie> ->/G Found ScribeNick: koalie Inferring Scribes: koalie WARNING: No "Topic:" lines found. WARNING: No "Present: ... " found! Possibly Present: Adrian AdrianBateman Ann AnnB AnnBassetti Baoping-Cheng-ChinaMobile BaopingCheng Bernard BernardGidon Coralie Eliot EliotGraff Kenny KennyLu Kiyoshi Lei LeiZhixing Qiuling QiulingPan Quiling Rayberg Sam Shoko YosukeFunahashi Yuer adrianba bgidon hiroto hiroto_ joined kennyluck koaliie masahiro masahiro_ participate sam_sugimoto_w3c scribenick shoko_ yosuke ywu You can indicate people for the Present list like this: <dbooth> Present: dbooth jonathan mary <dbooth> Present+ amy Got date from IRC log name: 13 Nov 2013 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2013/11/13-participate-minutes.html People with action items: WARNING: No "Topic: ..." lines found! Resulting HTML may have an empty (invalid) <ol>...</ol>. Explanation: "Topic: ..." lines are used to indicate the start of new discussion topics or agenda items, such as: <dbooth> Topic: Review of Amy's report[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]