See also: IRC log
<trackbot> Date: 05 September 2013
<scribe> scribe: allanj
we rock, got lots done
js: need clean/done document by 9/12 for publishing
Resolution: No Changes after Sept 12.
js: reports from folks who did things
kp: reworked the stems for SC
jr: +1 to kim, we are on the same page
discussion of Provide focus choice.
gl: too broad
js: doesn't match intent of SC
related to 1.8.10
jr: issue with global volume
these changes are not normative we can smith during last call
jr: global volume is 1.5.1
ja: take discussion to the list.
Resolution: Accept proposal for Stem reworking, exceptions noted. discussion on list
<kford> Here is a review of P1. http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2013JulSep/0057.html
kf: issue with 1.1.3 note
Note: At level A, the user agent can specify that an alternative content or placeholder replace the non-text content. At level AA success criterion 1.1.3 requires that the user can specify one format or placeholder to be used. At level AAA success criterion 1.1.5 requires that the user can specify a cascade order of types of alternative content to be used.
jr: would be fine if we dropped this note, just meta information
js: might go in resources
jr: or in intent
Resolution: remove note in 1.1.3
kf: 1.2.1 issues
jr: there is an open action from f2f to reword
kf: screenreaders do what we want. if link image they show file name, don't discourage that.
<jeanne> Master document for today's meeting <- http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2013/ED-UAAG20-20130905/MasterUAAG20130905.html
jr: right, AT does right thing, don't want authoring tools etc doing the wrong thing.
gl: cites mobile and vision issues for turning off images, if no alt, user has no idea about where link goes...
ja: cites animated gif Link with no alt, browser should do something to give info to user with no AT
kf: 1.9 source view -- many
sources, not clear
... page source is different from rendered source
... generally it is the rendered source that is most important
js: put in intent. messing with the SC will take lots of time.
ja: +1 to intent
generated source vs original source
gl: inspecting tools give you generated source
<jeanne> I'm ok with clarifying it as a note
developers toolbar http://chrispederick.com/work/web-developer/firefox/ (dom source and page source
<scribe> ACTION: greg to reword 1.9.2 for both sources [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/09/05-ua-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-884 - Reword 1.9.2 for both sources [on Greg Lowney - due 2013-09-12].
js: those open in tracker
<jeanne> action-827 defintion of levels - http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2013/ED-UAAG20-20130905/MasterUAAG20130905.html#intro-conf-levels
<jeanne> closed action-831
<jeanne> ACTION: jeanne to move Appendix E to wiki page [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/09/05-ua-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-885 - Move appendix e to wiki page [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2013-09-12].
<trackbot> Closed action-836.
<jeanne> close action-856
<trackbot> Closed action-856.
<jeanne> close action-870
<trackbot> Closed action-870.
<jeanne> close action-855
<trackbot> Closed action-855.
<jeanne> close action-880
<trackbot> Closed action-880.
eh: review of glossary
... most editorial
kp: did a quick review looks ok
text alternatives for non-text content: Text that is either (a) programmatically associated with non-text content or (b) referred to by such text. Sometimes both kinds of text alternatives occur together. For example, an image of a chart might have two text alternatives – one of each kind: (a) a short text description that is programmatically associated with the chart (e.g., alt text) and (b) a description in...
scribe: the paragraph that is referred to by the short text description.”
eh: def of alternatives for time based media issue
jr: took def from ATAG
jr: we define alternatives for time based media more broadly than WCAG.
eh: ok with ATAG def. withdraw concern that it doesn't match WCAG
js: like proposal
jr: only programmatic text is machine readable
gl: started a proposal for this
definition. in progress.
... either associated directly (alt, longdesc) or indirectly (labelledby, describedby)
eh: may have misunderstood the
... wasn't clear that both direct and indirect are programmatically available
<Jan> From WCAG: text alternative Text that is programmatically associated with non-text content or referred to from text that is programmatically associated with non-text content. Programmatically associated text is text whose location can be programmatically determined from the non-text content. Example: An image of a chart is described in text in the paragraph after the chart. The short text...
<Jan> ...alternative for the chart indicates that a description follows. Note: Refer to Understanding Text Alternatives for more information.
jr: WCAG does not assume machine readability, UAAG does (recognized)
eh: needs to be clearer.
<Jan> Importantly, from the perspective of authoring tools, alternative content may or may not be:
<Jan> #def-Associated-Alternative-Contentprogrammatically associated: Alternative content whose location and purpose can be programmatically determined from the original content for which it is serving as an alternative. For example, a paragraph might serve as a text alternative for an image, but it is only programmatically associated if this relationship is properly encoded (e.g., by...
jr: this might make it more clear
if we use above language (change referent to user agent)
... this term must be things that are machine readable (programatically associated)
Importantly, from the perspective of user agents, alternative content may or may not be programmatically associated: Alternative content whose location and purpose can be programmatically determined from the original content for which it is serving as an alternative. For example, a paragraph might serve as a text alternative for an image, but it is only programmatically associated if this...
scribe: relationship is properly encoded (e.g., by."aria-describedby")
<Jan> text alternatives for non-text content: Text that is programmatically associated with non-text content. For example, an image of a chart might have two text alternatives: a description in the paragraph after the chart and a short text alternative for the chart indicating in words that a description follows.
ja: +1 to new def
... a description in para after chart...is not an alternative unless tagged.
jr: will add aria-describedby
<Jan> text alternatives for non-text content: Text that is programmatically associated with non-text content....+ Greg's text.
<Greg> alternative content: this should include a category for text alternatives for text content, such as is provided by HTML's ABBR element.(ABBR is an example in Appendix E.)
gl: definition is too narrow. doesn't cover <abbr title=foo>
<Greg> "For example, an image of a chart might have two text alternatives: a description in the paragraph after the chart, as long as the two are linked by a method such as ARIA describedby, or..."
kp: need something different for
examples or sub bulleted items in the definitions
... bullets confusing (separating sub def from examples)
... seems to be an extra level of bullets in the implementing document, would make it easier to read
<scribe> ACTION: allanj to rewrite definition of alternative content - include bullet for <abbr title=foo>, change sentence for text-alternatives for non-text content [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/09/05-ua-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Error finding 'allanj'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/users>.
<scribe> ACTION: jallan to rewrite definition of alternative content - include bullet for <abbr title=foo>, change sentence for text-alternatives for non-text content [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/09/05-ua-minutes.html#action04]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-886 - Rewrite definition of alternative content - include bullet for <abbr title=foo>, change sentence for text-alternatives for non-text content [on Jim Allan - due 2013-09-12].
alternative for text content
rrsagent make minutes
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.138 of Date: 2013-04-25 13:59:11 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/choise/choice/ Succeeded: s/1.8/1.8.10/ Succeeded: s/text alternatives:/text alternatives for non-text content:/ Succeeded: s/definitons/defintions/ Succeeded: s/defintions/definitions/ Found Scribe: allanj Inferring ScribeNick: allanj Default Present: Jim_Allan, Jeanne, Greg_Lowney, Kim_Patch, Jan, kford, +1.609.734.aaaa, [Microsoft] Present: Jim_Allan Jeanne Greg_Lowney Kim_Patch Jan kford +1.609.734.aaaa [Microsoft] WARNING: Replacing previous Regrets list. (Old list: Kim) Use 'Regrets+ ... ' if you meant to add people without replacing the list, such as: <dbooth> Regrets+ -Kim Regrets: -Kim Found Date: 05 Sep 2013 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2013/09/05-ua-minutes.html People with action items: allanj greg jallan jeanne[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]