W3C

- DRAFT -

MLW-LT f2f

17 Jun 2013

Agenda

See also: IRC log

Attendees

Present
karl, olaf-michael, david, milan, pedro, declan, leroy, dave, yves, jirka, ankit, felix, DaveLewis, dF, omstefanov, arle (remote, for MQM discussion)
Regrets
Chair
DaveDavid
Scribe
fsasaki

Contents


Editing in groups

<daveL> editing section 2.1:

<daveL> sentence "The motivation for separating data category definitions from their implementation is that only this way the reality can be reflected since data categories can be implemented" followed by bullets

<daveL> The motivation for separating data category definitions from their implementation is to enable different implementation with the following characteristics

<kfritsche> Action make example 2 similar to example 1, just with ITS to kfritsche

<trackbot> Error finding 'make'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/users>.

<kfritsche> ACTION: kfritsche to make example 2 similar to example 1, just with ITS [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/06/17-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Error finding 'kfritsche'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/users>.

<kfritsche> ACTION: Karl to make example 2 similar to example 1, just with ITS [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/06/17-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-537 - Make example 2 similar to example 1, just with ITS [on Karl Fritsche - due 2013-06-24].

<Declan> change in Section 2.1: "Storage Size: specifies the maximum storage size of a given content." -> "Storage Size: specifies the maximum storage size of the given content."

<Declan> change in Section 2.2: "ITS distinguishes two mechanisms for explicit selection: (1) local approach, and (2) global approach (via rules)" -> "ITS distinguishes two mechanisms for explicit selection: (1) local, and (2) global (via rules)"

<Declan> ... "Both local and global approach can interact... "-> "Both local and global approaches can interact... "

<Declan> in Section 2.2, second bullet point "the global, rule-based approach..." - >"the global rule-based approach..."

<leroy> using the Translate data category as example.----> using the Translate data category as an example.

<daveL> Insection 2.2, start the bullets with capitals: "the local approach puts ITS markup..." -> "The local approach puts ITS markup.."

<daveL> and "the global, rule-based approach puts.." -> "The global, rule-based approach puts.."

<daveL> Sentence "ITS 2.0 can be used with XML documents (e.g. a DocBook article), HTML documents, or schemas (e.g. an XML Schema document for a proprietary document format)." doesn't mention RDF.

<daveL> Change to "ITS 2.0 can be used with XML documents (e.g. a DocBook article), HTML documents, document schemas (e.g. an XML Schema document for a proprietary document format), or data models in RDF."

<Declan> section 2.3: "rules related to overriding/precedence, and inheritance, have to be established." -> "rules related to overriding/precedence and inheritance have to be established."

<leroy> check consistency of all mark up within body text e.g. selector in red in some location

<leroy> provides an overview of which data categories allow to add information, and which allow to point to existing information. ---> provides an overview of which data categories allow the addition of information, and which allow the pointing to existing information.

<scribe> ACTION: felix to go back to Norbert and say that we changed the example 2 in the new introduction, see his comment on the old example 2 at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt-comments/2013Jan/0114.html [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/06/17-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action03]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-538 - Go back to Norbert and say that we changed the example 2 in the new introduction, see his comment on the old example 2 at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt-comments/2013Jan/0114.html [on Felix Sasaki - due 2013-06-24].

<Declan> Section 2.4 replace colon with semi-colon: "Adding information and pointing to existing information are mutually exclusive: attributes for... " -> "Adding information and pointing to existing information are mutually exclusive; attributes for ..."

<leroy> section 2.5 headers are not matching the aspects listed 2.5.1 for example does not match the first aspect in the list etc.

<leroy> this specification (see Section 6.2: Global rules) defines ---> this specification (see Section 6.2: Global rules) defines:

<leroy> The Language Information data category has the HTML lang attribute as counterpart ---> The Language Information data category has the HTML lang attribute as a counterpart

editorial issues in the whole draft

"metadata" one word, same for "database", "multilingual"

hyperlink check so that the target go the right places

colon ":" before the 1st bullet point

test suite

http://tinyurl.com/its20-testsuite-dashboard

http://htmlpreview.github.io/?https://raw.github.com/finnle/ITS-2.0-Testsuite/master/its2.0/testSuiteDashboard-PR-transition.html

https://github.com/finnle/ITS-2.0-Testsuite/tree/master/its2.0/

<kfritsche> http://htmlpreview.github.io/?https://raw.github.com/finnle/ITS-2.0-Testsuite/master/its2.0/testSuiteDashboard-PR-transition.html

https://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/actions/open?sort=owner

https://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/actions/open

action items

open issues for sec1-2

systematic ":" before list

check hyperlinks

LC comments

http://services.w3.org/xslt?xslfile=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FInternational%2Fmultilingualweb%2Flt%2Fdrafts%2Fits20%2Ftools%2Fxslt%2Fdisco-for-its20.xsl&xmlfile=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FInternational%2Fmultilingualweb%2Flt%2Ftrack%2Fapi%2Fdump%3Ffull&content-type=&submit=transform

<scribe> ACTION: felix to check rfc 2119 keywords in non normative sections [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/06/17-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action04]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-539 - Check rfc 2119 keywords in non normative sections [on Felix Sasaki - due 2013-06-24].

close action-539

<trackbot> Closed ACTION-539 Check rfc 2119 keywords in non normative sections.

<scribe> ACTION: felix to check that that there is no normative use of language in non-normative contexts [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/06/17-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action05]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-540 - Check that that there is no normative use of language in non-normative contexts [on Felix Sasaki - due 2013-06-24].

time schedule

by monday early send out draft to publist list

on wednesday vote for publication

deliverables update

http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/Deliverables

<scribe> ACTION: leroy to udpate test suite documentation on github [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/06/17-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action06]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-541 - Udpate test suite documentation on github [on Leroy Finn - due 2013-06-24].

http://www.w3.org/International/its/wiki/Use_cases_-_high_level_summary

"Report on LT-Web Processing in the CMS" > stephan will put material into the wiki

meeting - event planning

16-17 september - showcase + f2f in walldorf

http://www.meta-net.eu/events/meta-forum-2013

RESOLUTION: 19-20 ITS participation in Berlin, 20 with showcase

november meeting: mo, tue, wed. 25,26,27 nov

25-26 f2f, 27 showcase 1/2 day

tpac week before

<scribe> ACTION: felix to check with asun about f2f / showcase infrastrcture for november meeting [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/06/17-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action07]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-542 - Check with asun about f2f / showcase infrastrcture for november meeting [on Felix Sasaki - due 2013-06-24].

MQM - ITS2

<daveL> scribe daveL

<daveL> felix: Arle has been working on QT-Lanuchpad MQM quality framework

<daveL> .. now we want to make sure that they align well with ITS

<Arle> http://www.w3.org/International/its/wiki/Tool_specific_mappings

<daveL> Arle: MQM grew out of work in ITS. I have been working to minimise those

<daveL> ... some differences are in how we call things.

<daveL> ... I am working to minimise these differences

<daveL> ... but the bigger issue is that MQM has finer granularity than ITS and a wider scope.

<daveL> ... so they can only be covered in ITS LQI only as 'other'

<Arle> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1E8IR1-8bR_M7VouHQhogUPpP2htpprwMMx1Mk9KPBTI/edit#

<daveL> ... We will work on a mapping document explaining the mapping. It should cover ~90% of MQM that can work in ITS.

<daveL> ... It is much finer grained that ITS, but we expect most peopl to use only a subset. We will include a subset decaration mechanism.

<daveL> ... then plan to include therefore an ITS mapping using this mechanism.

<daveL> Arle: So there are some MQM categories with a plus after it which has further granularity which is not visible in ITS.

<daveL> felix: are there any examples of mark-up that people can experiment with it

<daveL> arle: not available yet, its in progress

<daveL> pedro: will the discussion on this be open to ITS?

<daveL> felix: could do this by incuding the ITS IG list, whcih is open

<daveL> ... Also, when is the time line for this.

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its-ig/2013Jun/0012.html

<daveL> Arle: not yet, it depends on the representation format

<daveL> Felix: OK switching to this representation mark-up discussion, there is an issue about overlapping, non-hierarchical structures as per this post

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its-ig/2013Jun/0014.html

<daveL> ... but the soluion proposed by Felix raises issues as it is different way of using ITS, and processors wouldn't know which mark-up style was being used.

<daveL> Yves: my concern is in using this scheme that is different from patterns used in other data categories

<daveL> felix: note it is not a aim of MQM to develop an interoperability requirement

<daveL> arle: perhaps we need to have an MQM specific name space for such mark-up

<daveL> are: this use case is really an edge case.

<daveL> dave: on omegaT QA is done at a segement level only

<daveL> felix: we will need to contiue discussion about the representation in MQM and see how this maps to ITS, with the ITS people engaged

<Arle> http://www.qt21.eu/launchpad/content/multidimensional-quality-metrics

<daveL> ... we aim to finalise spec next week, with a link to ITS IG wiki, so a link to the MQM landing page is useful

<daveL> ACTION: felix to integrate MQM URL from Arle into spec or into ITS IG best practice [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/06/17-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action08]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-543 - Integrate MQM URL from Arle into spec or into ITS IG best practice [on Felix Sasaki - due 2013-06-24].

<daveL> felix: asks here will this be standardised eventually

<daveL> arle: still looking for a home, perhaps to LIs at ETSI or elsewhere.

<daveL> ... hence the instability of URI

<daveL> felix: can we use this on the wiki then

<daveL> arle: please let me know if you are interested in contributing to MQM so I can keep you in the loop.

<Arle> Possible homes for standardization of MQM at present are ETSI ISG LIS or OASIS. We should be deciding this by the end of the year.

<Arle> We hope we aren't doing that, Jirka, but maybe we are :-(

<Arle> (Fortunately there are no standards, except SAE J2450 and ITS 2.0, in this area and we think we will be able to set it up so that anyone implementing ITS can automatically support a profile of MQM. The other way (MQM to ITS 2.0) is possible as well, if we accept some data loss.

showcase structure

discussing structure of http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/Dublin_June_2013_f2f_and_showcase#18_June_morning:_ITS_2.0_showcase

<omstefanov> Preparations for Tuesday's setup and structure of agenda

<omstefanov> 9:00 - 9.15 Felix and Christian - intro

<omstefanov> chriLi suggests Felix talks. Felix asks that Christian is available to questions

<omstefanov> Moravia demo - to be done in slot with David F.

<omstefanov> sessions covering more, get 30 min slots - felix, others get shorter sessions

<omstefanov> Jirka says he doesn't need full slot

<omstefanov> Moravia demo added to 12:25 slot with HTML-to-TMS

<omstefanov> 9:15 - 9:35 Jirka Kosek

https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/1/its20showcase-dublin/results

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: felix to check rfc 2119 keywords in non normative sections [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/06/17-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action04]
[NEW] ACTION: felix to check that that there is no normative use of language in non-normative contexts [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/06/17-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action05]
[NEW] ACTION: felix to check with asun about f2f / showcase infrastrcture for november meeting [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/06/17-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action07]
[NEW] ACTION: felix to go back to Norbert and say that we changed the example 2 in the new introduction, see his comment on the old example 2 at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt-comments/2013Jan/0114.html [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/06/17-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: felix to integrate MQM URL from Arle into spec or into ITS IG best practice [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/06/17-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action08]
[NEW] ACTION: Karl to make example 2 similar to example 1, just with ITS [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/06/17-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: kfritsche to make example 2 similar to example 1, just with ITS [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/06/17-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: leroy to udpate test suite documentation on github [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/06/17-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action06]
 
[End of minutes]

Minutes formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl version 1.138 (CVS log)
$Date: 2013-06-26 11:18:25 $