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07:36:20 <fsasaki> meeting: MLW-LT f2f
07:36:26 <fsasaki> chair: DaveDavid
07:36:37 <fsasaki> agenda: http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/Dublin_June_2013_f2f_and_showcase#17_June
07:36:47 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/06/17-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki
07:41:52 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/06/17-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki
08:16:24 <kfritsche> kfritsche has joined #mlw-lt
08:17:01 <kfritsche> morning
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08:27:01 <daveL> hi felix, for editing is there still a brancj for section 1 and 2 or should we edit the main version - just checking before typing here
08:27:36 <fsasaki> hi daveL, yesterday evening I merged the branch back into main version, that is http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.odd
08:27:43 <fsasaki> so please just edit above link
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08:33:49 <daveL> Thanks felix:
08:35:28 <Milan> Milan has joined #mlw-lt
08:55:49 <daveL> editing section 2.1:
08:56:04 <daveL> sentence "The motivation for separating data category definitions from their implementation is that only this way the reality can be reflected since data categories can be implemented" followed by bullets
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08:58:33 <Yves_> present+ Yves
08:59:26 <leroy> present+ leroy
09:00:04 <daveL> The motivation for separating data category definitions from their implementation is to enable different implementation with the following characteristics
09:00:57 <Declan> Declan has joined #mlw-lt
09:06:51 <kfritsche> Action make example 2 similar to example 1, just with ITS to kfritsche
09:06:51 <trackbot> Error finding 'make'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/users>.
09:09:43 <kfritsche> Action: kfritsche to make example 2 similar to example 1, just with ITS
09:09:43 <trackbot> Error finding 'kfritsche'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/users>.
09:11:58 <kfritsche> Action: Karl to make example 2 similar to example 1, just with ITS
09:11:59 <trackbot> Created ACTION-537 - Make example 2 similar to example 1, just with ITS [on Karl Fritsche - due 2013-06-24].
09:12:17 <Declan> change in Section 2.1: "Storage Size: specifies the maximum storage size of a given content." -> "Storage Size: specifies the maximum storage size of the given content."
09:20:50 <Declan> change in Section 2.2: "ITS distinguishes two mechanisms for explicit selection: (1) local approach, and (2) global approach (via rules)" -> "ITS distinguishes two mechanisms for explicit selection: (1) local, and (2) global (via rules)"
09:21:35 <Declan> ... "Both local and global approach can interact... "-> "Both local and global approaches can interact... "
09:26:58 <Declan> in Section 2.2, second bullet point "the global, rule-based approach..." - >"the global rule-based approach..."
09:27:38 <leroy> using the Translate data category as example.----> using the Translate data category as an example.
09:28:36 <daveL> Insection 2.2, start the bullets with capitals: "the local approach puts ITS markup..." -> "The local approach puts ITS markup.."
09:28:53 <Milan> present+ Milan
09:29:10 <daveL> and "the global, rule-based approach puts.." -> "The global, rule-based approach puts.."
09:32:19 <daveL> Sentence "ITS 2.0 can be used with XML documents (e.g. a DocBook article), HTML documents, or schemas (e.g. an XML Schema document for a proprietary document format)." doesn't mention RDF.
09:35:22 <daveL> Change to "ITS 2.0 can be used with XML documents (e.g. a DocBook article), HTML documents, document schemas (e.g. an XML Schema document for a proprietary document format), or data models in RDF."
10:01:21 <fsasaki> fsasaki has joined #mlw-lt
10:03:02 <fsasaki> present: karl, olaf-michael, david, milan, pedro, declan, leroy, dave, yves, jirka, ankit, felix
10:03:07 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/06/17-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki
10:05:42 <Declan> section 2.3: "rules related to overriding/precedence, and inheritance, have to be established." -> "rules related to overriding/precedence and inheritance have to be established."
10:07:04 <leroy> check consistency of all mark up within body text e.g. selector  in  red in some location
10:19:41 <leroy>  provides an overview of which data categories allow to add information, and which allow to point to existing information. --->  provides an overview of which data categories allow the addition of information, and which allow the pointing to existing information.
10:20:22 <fsasaki> action: felix to go back to Norbert and say that we changed the example 2 in the new introduction, see his comment on the old example 2 at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt-comments/2013Jan/0114.html
10:20:22 <trackbot> Created ACTION-538 - Go back to Norbert and say that we changed the example 2 in the new introduction, see his comment on the old example 2 at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt-comments/2013Jan/0114.html [on Felix Sasaki - due 2013-06-24].
10:30:04 <Declan> Section 2.4 replace colon with semi-colon: "Adding information and pointing to existing information are mutually exclusive: attributes for... " -> "Adding information and pointing to existing information are mutually exclusive; attributes for ..."
10:37:42 <leroy> section 2.5 headers are not matching the aspects listed 2.5.1 for example does not match the first aspect in the list etc.
10:55:21 <leroy> this specification (see Section 6.2: Global rules) defines ---> this specification (see Section 6.2: Global rules) defines:
11:01:43 <leroy> The Language Information data category has the HTML lang attribute as counterpart ---> The Language Information data category has the HTML lang attribute as a counterpart
11:32:43 <fsasaki> topic: editorial issues in the whole draft
11:33:07 <fsasaki> "metadata" one word, same for "database", "multilingual"
11:33:27 <fsasaki> hyperlink check so that the target go the right places
11:35:04 <fsasaki> colon ":" before the 1st bullet point
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11:47:50 <fsasaki> topic: test suite
11:47:51 <fsasaki> http://tinyurl.com/its20-testsuite-dashboard
11:48:54 <fsasaki> http://htmlpreview.github.io/?https://raw.github.com/finnle/ITS-2.0-Testsuite/master/its2.0/testSuiteDashboard-PR-transition.html
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11:51:05 <fsasaki> https://github.com/finnle/ITS-2.0-Testsuite/tree/master/its2.0/
11:51:08 <kfritsche> http://htmlpreview.github.io/?https://raw.github.com/finnle/ITS-2.0-Testsuite/master/its2.0/testSuiteDashboard-PR-transition.html
11:53:35 <fsasaki> https://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/actions/open?sort=owner
11:55:52 <fsasaki> https://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/actions/open
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12:36:45 <daveL> present+ DaveLewis
12:41:50 <Milan> Milan has joined #mlw-lt
12:46:41 <fsasaki> topic: action items
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13:05:16 <fsasaki> topic: open issues for sec1-2
13:05:24 <fsasaki> systematic ":" before list
13:05:26 <fsasaki> check hyperlinks
13:07:28 <fsasaki> topic: LC comments
13:07:28 <fsasaki> http://services.w3.org/xslt?xslfile=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FInternational%2Fmultilingualweb%2Flt%2Fdrafts%2Fits20%2Ftools%2Fxslt%2Fdisco-for-its20.xsl&xmlfile=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FInternational%2Fmultilingualweb%2Flt%2Ftrack%2Fapi%2Fdump%3Ffull&content-type=&submit=transform
13:08:49 <fsasaki> action: felix to check rfc 2119 keywords in non normative sections
13:08:50 <trackbot> Created ACTION-539 - Check rfc 2119 keywords in non normative sections [on Felix Sasaki - due 2013-06-24].
13:09:11 <fsasaki> close action-539
13:09:11 <trackbot> Closed ACTION-539 Check rfc 2119 keywords in non normative sections.
13:09:37 <fsasaki> action: felix to check that that there is no normative use of language in non-normative contexts
13:09:37 <trackbot> Created ACTION-540 - Check that that there is no normative use of language in non-normative contexts [on Felix Sasaki - due 2013-06-24].
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13:11:56 <fsasaki> topic: time schedule
13:12:07 <fsasaki> by monday early send out draft to publist list
13:12:13 <fsasaki> on wednesday vote for publication
13:12:56 <fsasaki> topic: deliverables update
13:12:57 <fsasaki> http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/Deliverables
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13:18:31 <fsasaki> action: leroy to udpate test suite documentation on github
13:18:32 <trackbot> Created ACTION-541 - Udpate test suite documentation on github [on Leroy Finn - due 2013-06-24].
13:20:43 <fsasaki> http://www.w3.org/International/its/wiki/Use_cases_-_high_level_summary
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13:23:39 <dF> present+ dF
13:25:49 <omstefanov> present +omstefanov
13:26:15 <fsasaki> "Report on LT-Web Processing in the CMS" > stephan will put material into the wiki
13:35:09 <fsasaki> topic: meeting - event planning
13:36:58 <fsasaki> 16-17 september - showcase + f2f in walldorf
13:38:10 <fsasaki> http://www.meta-net.eu/events/meta-forum-2013
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13:55:34 <leroy> present+ leroy
13:57:49 <fsasaki> RESOLVED: 19-20 ITS participation in Berlin, 20 with showcase
13:58:19 <pedro> present+ pedro
13:58:49 <fsasaki> november meeting: mo, tue, wed. 25,26,27 nov
13:59:17 <fsasaki> 25-26 f2f, 27 showcase 1/2 day
14:01:07 <fsasaki> tpac week before
14:02:27 <fsasaki> action: felix to check with asun about f2f / showcase infrastrcture for november meeting
14:02:27 <trackbot> Created ACTION-542 - Check with asun about f2f / showcase infrastrcture for november meeting [on Felix Sasaki - due 2013-06-24].
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14:04:16 <fsasaki> topic: MQM - ITS2
14:05:38 <daveL> scribe daveL
14:06:21 <daveL> felix: Arle has been working on QT-Lanuchpad MQM quality framework
14:06:42 <daveL> .. now we want to make sure that they align well with ITS
14:07:04 <Arle> http://www.w3.org/International/its/wiki/Tool_specific_mappings
14:07:07 <daveL> Arle: MQM grew out of work in ITS. I have been working to minimise those
14:07:29 <daveL> ... some differences are in how we call things.
14:07:40 <daveL> ... I am working to minimise these differences
14:08:14 <daveL> ... but the bigger issue is that MQM has finer granularity than ITS and a wider scope.
14:08:32 <daveL> ... so they can only be covered in ITS LQI only as 'other'
14:08:49 <Arle> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1E8IR1-8bR_M7VouHQhogUPpP2htpprwMMx1Mk9KPBTI/edit#
14:09:32 <daveL> ... We will work on a mapping document explaining the mapping. It should cover ~90% of MQM that can work in ITS.
14:10:08 <daveL> ... It is much finer grained that ITS, but we expect most peopl to use only a subset. We will include a subset decaration mechanism.
14:10:31 <daveL> ... then plan to include therefore an ITS mapping using this mechanism.
14:12:39 <daveL> Arle: So there are some MQM categories with a plus after it which has further granularity which is not visible in ITS.
14:13:34 <daveL> felix: are there any examples of mark-up that people can experiment with it
14:13:58 <daveL> arle: not available yet, its in progress
14:14:20 <daveL> pedro: will the discussion on this be open to ITS?
14:14:36 <daveL> felix: could do this by incuding the ITS IG list, whcih is open
14:14:55 <daveL> ... Also, when is the time line for this.
14:15:14 <fsasaki> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its-ig/2013Jun/0012.html
14:15:23 <daveL> Arle: not yet, it depends on the representation format
14:16:28 <daveL> Felix: OK switching to this representation mark-up discussion, there is an issue about overlapping, non-hierarchical structures as per this post
14:17:09 <fsasaki> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its-ig/2013Jun/0014.html
14:17:23 <daveL> ... but the soluion proposed by Felix raises issues as it is  different way of using ITS, and processors wouldn't know which mark-up style was being used.
14:20:45 <daveL> Yves: my concern is in using this scheme that is different from patterns used in other data categories
14:23:13 <daveL> felix: note it is not a aim of MQM to develop an interoperability requirement
14:25:13 <daveL> arle: perhaps we need to have an MQM specific name space for such mark-up
14:25:51 <daveL> are: this use case is really an edge case.
14:26:45 <daveL> dave: on omegaT QA is done at a segement level only
14:28:12 <daveL> felix: we will need to contiue discussion about the representation in MQM and see how this maps to ITS, with the ITS people engaged
14:29:03 <Arle> http://www.qt21.eu/launchpad/content/multidimensional-quality-metrics
14:29:11 <daveL> ... we aim to finalise spec next week, with a link to ITS IG wiki, so a link to the MQM landing page is useful
14:29:46 <daveL> action: felix to integrate MQM URL from Arle into spec or into ITS IG best practice
14:29:46 <trackbot> Created ACTION-543 - Integrate MQM URL from Arle into spec or into ITS IG best practice [on Felix Sasaki - due 2013-06-24].
14:30:11 <daveL> felix: asks here will this be standardised eventually
14:30:49 <daveL> arle: still looking for a home, perhaps to LIs at ETSI or elsewhere.
14:31:03 <daveL> ... hence the instability of URI
14:31:28 <daveL> felix: can we use this on the wiki then
14:32:02 <daveL> arle: please let me know if you are interested in contributing to MQM so I can keep you in the loop.
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14:32:38 <Arle> Possible homes for standardization of MQM at present are ETSI ISG LIS or OASIS. We should be deciding this by the end of the year.
14:33:06 <Arle> We hope we aren't doing that, Jirka, but maybe we are :-(
14:34:38 <Arle> (Fortunately there are no standards, except SAE J2450 and ITS 2.0, in this area and we think we will be able to set it up so that anyone implementing ITS can automatically support a profile of MQM. The other way (MQM to ITS 2.0) is possible as well, if we accept some data loss.
14:35:31 <daveL> rrsagent, generate minutes
14:35:31 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/06/17-mlw-lt-minutes.html daveL
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15:03:11 <fsasaki> topic: showcase structure
15:03:15 <fsasaki> discussing structure of http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/Dublin_June_2013_f2f_and_showcase#18_June_morning:_ITS_2.0_showcase
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15:05:09 <chriLi> present+ chriLi
15:06:18 <omstefanov> Preparations for Tuesday's setup and structure of agenda
15:07:02 <omstefanov> 9:00 - 9.15 Felix and Christian - intro
15:07:31 <omstefanov> chriLi suggests Felix talks. Felix asks that Christian is available to questions
15:08:08 <omstefanov> Moravia demo - to be done in slot with David F.
15:09:24 <omstefanov> sessions covering more, get 30 min slots - felix, others get shorter sessions
15:09:35 <omstefanov> Jirka says he doesn't need full slot
15:10:19 <omstefanov> Moravia demo added to 12:25 slot with HTML-to-TMS
15:12:09 <omstefanov> 9:15 - 9:35 Jirka Kosek
15:16:02 <fsasaki> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/1/its20showcase-dublin/results
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16:50:31 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/06/17-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki