See also: IRC log
<trackbot> Date: 02 May 2013
<st> 201-785-9919 is me
<st> Suzanne Taylor
<chaals> Scribe: Janina
<scribe> scribe: janina
leonie: Currently 3 members of
this subteam
... One moving to NZ and may be unable to continue, leaving
two
... Looking for recruits
jf: What's involved?
<chaals> ACTION: Chaals to send recruiting call to TF mailing list [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/05/02-html-a11y-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-178 - Send recruiting call to TF mailing list [on Charles McCathie Nevile - due 2013-05-09].
leonie: Currently fairly
quiet
... We meet Wednesdays at 14:00Z
... Open to meeting time adjustments
jf: Willing to consider
ms: Also me
cn: Will also sub to list
suzanne: Will look for opportunities as I get acquainted
jb: Noting it's a good place to get acquainted with the breadth of issues we consider
suzanne: OK, sign me up too!
[pause for personal intros]
cn: Looking to see whether
there's progress updating?
... Also looking to people willing to edit and bring the wiki
up to date
<MarkS> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Meetings/Minutes
<MarkS> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Scribe_List#Scheduled_Scribes
ms: Have been editing and have brought scribe list and minutes up to date
<chaals> ACTION: chaals to post a modified version of leonie's wiki page summary [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/05/02-html-a11y-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-179 - Post a modified version of leonie's wiki page summary [on Charles McCathie Nevile - due 2013-05-09].
janina: Wondering about our deliverables?
jb: Yes, there's a coming HTML-WG rechartering that lists various deliverables, some of which are ours
<LJWatson> The email I sent to the TF list: http://www.w3.org/mid/002c01ce2664$16bd1a80$44374f80$@tink.co.uk
jb: One item os an HTML to A11y
APIs mapping doc
... Currently there are longdesc extenion and the ARIA
Mappings
janina: That should ARIA in HTML; Longdesc; HTML to A11y APIs; Alt Text; and expecting Transcript
cn: A major topic at the HTML-WG
F2F last week
... One concern is to test a11y in HTML, needing our assistance
in that
... Probably another year to bring this to completion
... F2F did walk the entire spec to categorize which aspects
are widely known to be working, which need testing
jb: Still sorting testing work as it will require substantial resources
<chaals> s/need testing/need testing. It would be good for us to do that, but maybe not today (it is likely to take a few hours just to walk through the list/)
jb: On the team side we are
working to make sure that there's good understanding on how to
test a11y including what can be automated, what needs manual,
etc
... Concern is that too much reliance on automated may not
sufficiently exercise a11y
leonie: Not understanding what
the outcomes are expected to be?
... That a11y features work?
<chaals> JS: A couple of years ago we walked though to look at things that need work. Could be time to do that again - in particular we know we need to look at acccesskey, while we believe that alt works ok
<Zakim> chaals, you wanted to explain to leonie what I expect
janina: Suggesting this gives us a good reason to walk the spec from an a11y viewpoint
cn: To Leonie: That we are
satisfied the spec explains how to provide a11y support
interoperably
... There are things where it may be unclear how to implement
in order that a11y works
<chaals> js: Think canvas is a good example - sometimes fallback text is there but is more or less impossible to work with in practice.
jb: Usually, we've talked evaluating content in the past, but now we're looking at ua implementations
cn: So, we're evaluating the HTML
specifications, that they lead to good implementations that
work all around. Do people generally get it right?
... Expect this may take quite a bit of our time in the next
year because it is very important
... Is there more on this today? Only intended an intro at this
time.
jb: One question for people to
start considering: Whether or not we need a subteam for
this
... Expect so, though the plenary TF will need updates and to
provide input regularly
cn: Unsure we need a new subteam, or transition Bug Triage? Though not a decision today
<MarkS> +1 Sub Team
cn: As Leonie asked, yes, this a good opportunity to work more closely in the HTML-WG
cn: Previously there were two
proposals but no consensus reached
... F2F suggested the TF take this on, if we want this
specified for 5.0, as an extention spec
... So, we would be looking for a proposal (or several), then a
TF decision to adopt one or another as a TF extension
jf: We previously had a proposal that had fairly wide support, but not complete support ...
cn: Wait, do you plan to propose a spec?
jf: Yes
ted: Eventually. If JF proposes, will speed mine up
cn: So, if JF proposes, Ted will provide either a counter proposal or a list of changes
<chaals> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=21565
Bug re longdesc on presentational images ...
cn: Not really a problem with
longdesc, but on when to provide for longdesc
... propose resolution is "invalid"
<chaals> RESOLUTION: 21565 is invalid
<JF> +1
<chaals> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=21781 affect of base / xml:base
cn: Suggest we wait to resolve this one
<chaals> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=21778 user agents MUST present longdesc.
[no disagreement]
<chaals> RESOLUTION: 21781 stays open for now
<chaals> CN: Proposal was to make the requirment for presenting a longdesc as a must instead of should
<chaals> … another proposal asked to allow user agents to ignore invalid longdesc
<chaals> … these directly contradict each other...
<chaals> … and there is another proposal to deal wit hte specific case of blank longdesc.
<chaals> … My proposal to resolve all these is to make a requirement that "user agents MUST present valid URIs in longdesc through normal user interfaces, and to accessibility APIs"
cn: Reason to not specify error
handling is lack of experience, etc., and we agreed previously
not to do that
... So a "must" when URI is valid
<JF> +1
ted: Is this a requirement on user agents or AT?
cn: On whatever the circumstance
ted: Think we should be clear on which conformance class
<MarkS> +1
suzanne: Sounds like browser opens if determined to be a URI, else allows either broser or AT for additional determinations
<chaals> RESOLUTION: close 21778 and related bugs with "user agents MUST present valid URIs in longdesc through normal user interfaces, and to accessibility APIs" without making requirements on what to do in the error condition
ted: Expect this to be controversial in WG
cn: Believe general consensus is
for browsers to implement longdesc directly, but not unanimity
on this
... Don't believe wordsmithing will help
[no disagreement]
[Adjournment]
<chaals> adjourned
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.138 of Date: 2013-04-25 13:59:11 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) WARNING: Bad s/// command: s/need testing/need testing. It would be good for us to do that, but maybe not today (it is likely to take a few hours just to walk through the list/) Succeeded: s/Need to make sure/On the team side we are working to make sure that/ Succeeded: s/extention/extension/ Succeeded: s/normal interfaces/normal user interfaces/ Found Scribe: Janina Inferring ScribeNick: janina Found Scribe: janina Inferring ScribeNick: janina Default Present: Mark_Sadecki, John_Foliot, hober, +1.201.785.aaaa, Janina, leonie, Suzanne, Judy, Cooper, chaals, David_MacDonald Present: Mark_Sadecki John_Foliot hober +1.201.785.aaaa Janina leonie Suzanne Judy Cooper chaals David_MacDonald Found Date: 02 May 2013 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2013/05/02-html-a11y-minutes.html People with action items: chaals WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]