W3C

Internationalization Working Group Teleconference

07 Mar 2013

Agenda

See also: IRC log

Attendees

Present
Addison, Richard, Felix, John_O, John_K, Mati, Aharon, David
Regrets
Chair
Addison Phillips
Scribe
aphillip

Contents


Action Items

<r12a> http://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/open

close action-189

<trackbot> Closed ACTION-189 Announce ruby note will be published as note, last call for next week.

close action-190

<trackbot> Closed ACTION-190 Write to contacts and cjk list about bopomofo handling as base and as ruby text.

close action-191

<trackbot> Closed ACTION-191 Request comments on wiki page about bidi change proposal to robin, bidi list, winter list, and html.

close action-192

<trackbot> Closed ACTION-192 Solicit from input Unicode on skipping spaces in css3 text-decoration specifically ethiopic word sep, etc..

close action-193

<trackbot> Closed ACTION-193 Supply CSS3 with pictures of skip-ink for tibetan or khmer.

Info Share

Norbert: ecmascript

<Norbert> http://norbertlindenberg.com/ecmascript/intl.html

Norbert: published first draft of second edition
... adds time zone ids
... from tzinfo
... can specify language for casing

Reviews

http://www.w3.org/International/wiki/Review_radar

[ http://www.w3.org/2012/sysapps/drafts/contacts-manager-api ]

norbert volunteers to shepherd :-)

HTML+RDFa and XInclude 1.1: no comments

What Time is this Meeting At

http://www.doodle.com/nzks8wivyfuk84mw#table

JcK: stick to 1600Z and check for whom this is a problem?

<scribe> ACTION: addison: poll for heartburn for keeping call at 1600Z [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/03/07-i18n-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-194 - Poll for heartburn for keeping call at 1500Z [on Addison Phillips - due 2013-03-14].

bidi change proposal

richard: didn't move wiki forward because of discussion of
... IE in stds mode is doing isolation
... so use case of "old hacks" might not be important?
... so crucial question
... simplest way to is change semantics of @dir
... and that would be easiest
... want to discuss that

aharon: agree with your analysis
... did more IE testing
... if non-stds mode, does weird stuff
... if span with @dir
... isolates stuff following
... but not preceeding it
... so weird
... can't say IE has isolation

<JcK> Having had that scheduling discussion, regrets for next week -- IETF meeting conflicts with anything after 1130 UT :-(

aharon: but can say that currently a lack of interop

richard: how to decide?
... three scenarios
... ask HTML WG?

Norbert: anyone rely on embedding
... and how does it work with IE
... if no one relies on
... then can change

richard: aharon had examples of it though

aharon: actually found examples in pages designed for IE7
... those pages would have been broken by change in IE

richard: how many more fixed than broken by change??
... so maybe some uplift too

aharon: probably right thing to to
... but don't believe my opinion will carry day

richard: two items docuemented

<scribe> ... new @direction

... add two new values
... and third would be change semantics

matial: limit damage with semantics change
... by giving guidance for using RLM etc
... using same markup, so to get same behavior you'd add enclosing RLM/LRM

aharon: new version of article gives that as guidance now

richard: need to put in front of HTML and CSS
... need to edit wiki first
... won't get to for two weeks

<scribe> chair: to look at in two weeks

aharon: one other thing

<scribe> ... new attribute values

... dependent on using css hack for transition
... css-hack doesn't work
... for IE7 and earlier
... nothing works there
... totally ignore (and doesn't show css) any @dir with unrecognized values
... as if @dir=foo is not even there

richard: please send me examples for wiki
... so can be complete

aharon: okay

<r12a> ACTION: Aharon to send Richard notes about IE behaviour wrt direction [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/03/07-i18n-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-195 - Send Richard notes about IE behaviour wrt direction [on Aharon Lanin - due 2013-03-14].

Ruby Use Cases

http://www.w3.org/International/docs/ruby/Overview2.html#usecased

richard: started making edits
... more I thought about it...
... combining new thing with old thing
... hypothetical cases were pretty historical
... didn't think I'd have time to fix it
... but deciced to plunge ahead
... much better document (and shorter too)
... so have rewritten a lot (most text touched)
... so back to needing to review
... need wide review

addison: think this is useful

Norbert: markup?

richard: space issue
... everyone pretty prints their html for examples
... this causes spurious spaces

Consider the sequence: がつgatsu月. There are no spaces in the sequence. You don't want to insert one just because the break occurs just before or after "gatsu". However, the opposite case can also exist: "The word 月 appears in this sentence." 月 wants spaces around it here. It is the layout context that matters and this cannot be determined strictly from the characters at the line break location.

doesn't work for Thai either

richard: should move away from current html5 (another reason)
... open/close <rb> tags help

<r12a> http://www.w3.org/International/tests/html-css/white-space/results-white-space#wfh

<r12a> http://www.w3.org/International/tests/html-css/white-space/results-white-space#thai

<scribe> ACTION: richard: request fequest feedback on ruby use cases with an eye towards publishing updated version in two weeks [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/03/07-i18n-minutes.html#action03]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-196 - Request fequest feedback on ruby use cases with an eye towards publishing updated version in two weeks [on Richard Ishida - due 2013-03-14].

s/two weeks from 7 March from 7 March/

Charmod-Norm

http://www.w3.org/International/wiki/CharmodNormProposal2013

http://inter-locale.com/w3c/charmod-norm-1.1-draft.html

Norbert: add search cases for user text and user interaction with text
... rather than identifiers, etc.

addison: wouldn't affect content authors and wouldn't affect specs
... but implementatinos of "find" would be

AOB?

addison: will take css skip spaces next week, will send email with the feedback

<matial> Bye

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: addison: poll for heartburn for keeping call at 1600Z [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/03/07-i18n-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: Aharon to send Richard notes about IE behaviour wrt direction [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/03/07-i18n-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: richard: request fequest feedback on ruby use cases with an eye towards publishing updated version in two weeks [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/03/07-i18n-minutes.html#action03]
 
[End of minutes]

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$Date: 2013-03-08 06:58:30 $