See also: IRC log
fsasaki: Felix had action item to
check whether W3C can host the namespace; alternative was to
use the itsx namespace
... David mention that itsx was used by other applications, so it would need to be a different namespace
daveL: we encountered similar
things in provenance, ITS ontology;
... having the extension in a separately addressable file made sense for us
<fsasaki> <itst:match selector="/mal:page"/>
fsasaki: itst is currently used
by the ITS tools,
... People should be able to create their own extension of the namespace, with the ability to have stand-alone files for the namespaces
daveL: can we have sub-spaces there? /rdf, etc?
fsasaki: yes, since it's an URI
daveL: here's an example of how
we used extensions in our provenance RDF example
... we want to be able to use it both in RDF use cases, as well as XLIFF
fsasaki: Why would the namespace for the RDF be different as for XLIFF?
daveL: we could manage them
separately, not sure if any other difference
... in the RDF one, we have 'domain', but it wouldn't map to an existing ITS XML attribute
fsasaki: would you make use of 'domain' data type when validating RDF?
daveL: yes, you could actually do this within RDF
fsasaki: RDF tools usually don't
resolve the XSD to enforce data types
... would people like an XSD on the namespace URI location?
daveL: David should know more on that
<fsasaki> <p its-locale-filter-list="*-CA">Legal notice for Canada</p>
fsasaki: we want an ability for some content to be excluded; yves proposed using the ! operator for 'excluding' a particular locale
<fsasaki> <p its-locale-filter-list="!*-CA">Legal notice for all locales except Canada</p>
shaunm: we had that functionality, but no-one wanted it
fsasaki: we dropped it in August, and we didn't have a clear record of discussion beyond private e-mails
Yves_: i hadn't followed up on
... but it is still useful functionality
fsasaki: would that result into additional changes in the test suite?
Yves_: current test cases only include locales, we'd need to add a new test case for excluding
shaunm: it's a fairly big change for a last call
fsasaki: we shouldn't avoid doing that, we don't have to make a final decision today
Des: I support the ! exclusion proposal
fsasaki: we have 5 implementers for locale filter
<omstefanov> an excluding test case should show excluding of more than 1 case, such would be realistic. The example Yves brought is so "real world" it's hard to believe we missed it.
fsasaki: do people have a preference for the ! over a special attribute?
<omstefanov> what would the attribute look like, and would it be IN ADDITION TO positive selections?
shaunm: attribute also isn't problematic
<Ankit> either way (! or keyword) wors for us (DCU)
Yves_: personally think ! is easier, but not against a specific attribute
<clieske> BCP47 does not provide an impression for "inverse"?
<clieske> Should it? :-)
clieske: this is a suggestion for providing feedback to BCP47 people for including an exclusion syntax
<scribe> ACTION: felix to check with I18N group about exclamation mark to signify an exclusion [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/03/04-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-454 - Check with I18N group about exclamation mark to signify an exclusion [on Felix Sasaki - due 2013-03-11].
<scribe> ACTION: Yves to create examples of locale filters with exclusion (using exclamation marks) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/03/04-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-455 - Create examples of locale filters with exclusion (using exclamation marks) [on Yves Savourel - due 2013-03-11].
Yves_: some html elements have
counterintuitive behaviour on inheritance, for instance
<del> shouldn't be translatable, while its sub-elements
can have different defaults
... we shouldn't make things like this compicated for the user
kfritsche: it makes sense to implement this as defaults, not as defaults
shaunm: we could make the same
argument for every format
... it becomes a problem on how we apply information
fsasaki: in practice, many tools
have HTML filters, which describe defaults different to the
defaults in the format-agnostic ITS spec
... for instance, the translate in HTML will have different defaults than its:translate
<fsasaki> above is the HTML5 bug
Yves_: shaun has a point, but in this case we write against the HTML5 spec, which we refer to specifically. it might make sense to have different defaults for that particular format
fsasaki: another argument might
be the workflows of Linguaserve, where XHTML is used in the XML
processing chain, as well as HTML processing chains, and having
them aligned can be beneficial
... the question is also for the xml-only implementers: will they be required to implement these defaults
Pedro: yes, we have this use case
fsasaki: we need some more feedback on this on mailing list. let's keep the topic on the agenda and see how the discussion moves forward
fsasaki: here's the test suite status
fsasaki: our charter says that we do testing from March to October, and we're mostly done. We can take time to finalize some features, and I'm confident we won't need much time for testing
philr: one topic from last week was discussing which way should the stand-off references point?
fsasaki: I made the experiment from inverting the pointer direction, from outside to inside might be more efficient
<scribe> ACTION: phil to follow up on stand-off pointer direction (quality, provenance) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/03/04-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action05]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-456 - Follow up on stand-off pointer direction (quality, provenance) [on Phil Ritchie - due 2013-03-11].
fsasaki: some errors aren't
really errors, for instance RDFa attributes
... the output will likely influence the output of the test suite
... so having an update in time will be helpful
swalter: the discussion split in
several threads. we made some specification on how a program
should behave when not supporting an encoding given
constraints, there wasn't any consensus on what should be done
with the storageSize constraint
... it usually denotes the size of the database field, and it's not a MUST. how can we have a MUST, if it's not required behavior
fsasaki: if we feel that a MUST is not necessary, we can reject the comment
shaunm: what should the program do if it doesn't understand the character encoding?
swalter: the program uses the
encoding to verify the constraint, but it's not obligatory to
... As an user of ITS, you could feel unsafe whether you give a tool a constraint which it will not obey
... especially when there are consumers that may care
... however, we normally don't constrain consumers
Yves_: we could have a note that
would describe the expected behaviour (described with lowercase
... and not worry about conformance at our level
swalter: there could be a distinction between what consumers or producers conform to
fsasaki: should we push for such a note?
<scribe> ACTION: Stephan Walter to propose a note for the character encoding behaviour [I18N-ISSUE-246] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/03/04-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action08]
<fsasaki> no further update, see discussion above
kfritsche: the defaults in the storage encoding is a value, but the understanding of the default was that it was integrated later; we propose the behavior that would set it to utf-8 if no other value was present
Yves_: it's different behaviour than ordinary defaults
<trackbot> ACTION-390 -- Tadej Štajner to check tan examples and test suite with regards to presence of annotatorsRef -- due 2013-01-30 -- OPEN
<fsasaki> tadej: can be closed, done, changes are in github pull requeste
<fsasaki> close action-390
<trackbot> Closed ACTION-390 Check tan examples and test suite with regards to presence of annotatorsRef.
<fsasaki> tadej: did the check, all examples are valid
fsasaki: anyone at CeBIT?
... we'll have some demos for ITS, thanks to Cocomore
... is the current schedule of calls ok for all?
... right now, we still don't have a right call time that works for everyone. let's try again after the review
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.137 of Date: 2012/09/20 20:19:01 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/local/locale/ Succeeded: s/whileits/while its/ Succeeded: s/counterintutitive/counterintuitive/ Succeeded: s/rules/defaults, not as rules/ Succeeded: s/rules/defaults/ Succeeded: s/informaiton/information/ Succeeded: s/bugs/bug/ Found Scribe: tbd Found Scribe: tadej Inferring ScribeNick: tadej Scribes: tbd, tadej Present: fsasaki omstefanov tadej Karl daveLewis philr shaunm Yves Giuseppe DomJones Marcis Ankit mdelolmo Milan Des Pedro leroy chriLi Regrets: Pablo Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013Mar/0039.html Got date from IRC log name: 04 Mar 2013 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2013/03/04-mlw-lt-minutes.html People with action items: felix phil philr stephan swalter walter yves yves_[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]