W3C

Internationalization Working Group Teleconference

21 Feb 2013

Agenda

See also: IRC log

Attendees

Present
aphillip, DavidClarke, fsasaki(30min), Richard, joconner, fantasai, Norbert, darobin, Aharon (last 30 min)
Regrets
john klensin
Chair
Addison Phillips
Scribe
John O'Conner

Contents


Agenda

addison: nothing new for agenda

Action Items

<r12a> http://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/open

norbert: no eta on action item

<aphillip> http://www.w3.org/International/wiki/FloatingTime

addison: floating times in progress, not complete

<aphillip> close ACTION-179

<trackbot> Closed ACTION-179 Publish BOM document.

addison: add floating times to pipeline

<r12a> ACTION: Addison to add floating times to pipeline [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/02/21-i18n-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-186 - Add floating times to pipeline [on Addison Phillips - due 2013-02-28].

<aphillip> close ACTION-181

<trackbot> Closed ACTION-181 Add shepherds list to review radar page.

<aphillip> http://www.w3.org/International/wiki/CharmodNormProposal2013

<aphillip> http://inter-locale.com/w3c/charmod-norm-1.1-draft.html

<aphillip> close ACTION-184

<trackbot> Closed ACTION-184 Remind group to review berjon's ruby spec extension proposal.

<aphillip> close ACTION-185

<trackbot> Closed ACTION-185 Publish blog post as wiki, put on front door, and announce to winter list.

Info Share

richard: unicode will published blog post re status of non-characters as first in a future list of posts that echo Unicode announcements

addison: added ruby as wg note on agenda

Draft Review of Ruby Spec

<r12a> http://darobin.github.com/html-ruby/

<r12a> http://berjon.com/tmp/inception/playground/render-ruby/

<r12a> http://rishida.net/misc/ruby/ruby-authoring.html

<aphillip> richard: discuss document

richard: wrote article that shows how to markup ruby and outlines conformance

<darobin> [motivation is essentially from http://www.w3.org/TR/ruby-use-cases/ and http://fantasai.inkedblade.net/weblog/2011/ruby/]

fantasai: discusses ruby use cases
... css engine must implement 2 layout models for ruby.
... html5 model for ruby is sufficient for simple cases
... more complicated use cases require more markup
... ruby model requires a lot of explicit markup

fantasai: double sided ruby requires additional rtc tag

<aphillip> rb.rb.rt.rt.rb.rb.rt.rt

richard: clarifies point in discussion of ruby

<r12a> http://rishida.net/misc/ruby/ruby-authoring.html

…refer to section 1.1 and 1.3

fantasai: what inline behavior is wanted?

…problem with 3.3 is that we don't have enough information

…word boundaries aren't available

…what fallback behavior is wanted?

…from layout perspective, supporting all 3 is complicated

addison: next steps?
... html group will publish extension spec
... document looks good

<aphillip> addison: to endorse, we would solicit larger feedback from winter@ and cjk@

richard: problems: how to attach styling to rb

… and fallback

darobin; provides options including changing html parser

….can also expose as api

richard: should we specify default locations for base?

richard: need implementation before end of year to include double sided ruby

fantasai: will require change to over/under

<aphillip> richard: max of 2 sets per base

<aphillip> ACTION: richard: provide darobin with contacts in browser vendors [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/02/21-i18n-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-187 - Provide darobin with contacts in browser vendors for ruby ext spec impl [on Richard Ishida - due 2013-02-28].

richard: inform robin about google contacts

Approve Ruby UC as WG Note

<aphillip> richard: publish use cases documents

<r12a> http://rishida.net/misc/ruby/ruby-authoring.html

richard: should merge two docs — use cases and ruby-authoring doc

addison: can't approved until merged work done

<aphillip> ACTION: richard: merge ruby documents for publication as a WG Note [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/02/21-i18n-minutes.html#action03]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-188 - Merge ruby documents for publication as a WG Note [on Richard Ishida - due 2013-02-28].

Isolating Direction in Bidi

richard: suggests that using language isn't right approach

<Najib-ma> Hello all,

<Najib-ma> I'm not in favor of @lang attribute (also) for bidi purpose

<Najib-ma> @lang attribute may be used for the purpose of rendering; e.g. speech, styling, font-type/size), etc. In general not to change direction of text.

<Najib-ma> That's all

aharon: provides example of phone number that should be isolated and lang is inappropriate

addison: need to finalize directionality first

<aphillip> aharon: @dir vs @direction, problem with length of name? discuss with fantasai

richard: admits that "direction" is long, but suggests that it is self-describing

fantasai: suggests that transition costs is high

richard: want to move to an attribute based solution

<aphillip> addison: thanks, we agreed to deal with direction first and may consider @lang in the future

fantasai: lri aproach isn't confusing

r12a: we'd welcome an alternative name for direction but we couldn't come up with anything as straightforward and intuitive - note that we intend to replace dir with it - we discussed all these things already and tried to summarise in the wiki page

text-decoration

<aphillip> fantasai: whitespace skip

<aphillip> ... should that be Unicode space class charactes

<aphillip> ... or also separators like ethoipic word space

richard: suggests that question be asked on email list

<aphillip> richard: ask in email

CharMod-Norm

<aphillip> http://www.w3.org/International/wiki/CharmodNormProposal2013

addison: rewriting requirements, asking others to review

AOB?

<aphillip> aharon: set up a time to discuss direction

<aphillip> ... need live time

<aphillip> addison: next week or sooner?

<aphillip> ... will reserve major block next week for bidi

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: Addison to add floating times to pipeline [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/02/21-i18n-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: richard: merge ruby documents for publication as a WG Note [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/02/21-i18n-minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: richard: provide darobin with contacts in browser vendors [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/02/21-i18n-minutes.html#action02]
 
[End of minutes]

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$Date: 2013-02-21 17:30:22 $