IRC log of i18n on 2013-02-21

Timestamps are in UTC.

15:52:09 [RRSAgent]: RRSAgent has joined #i18n
15:52:09 [RRSAgent]: logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/02/21-i18n-irc
15:52:19 [Zakim]: Zakim has joined #i18n
15:52:25 [aphillip]: trackbot, prepare teleconference
15:52:27 [trackbot]: RRSAgent, make logs world
15:52:29 [trackbot]: Zakim, this will be 4186
15:52:29 [Zakim]: ok, trackbot; I see I18N_CoreWG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 8 minutes
15:52:30 [trackbot]: Meeting: Internationalization Working Group Teleconference
15:52:30 [trackbot]: Date: 21 February 2013
15:52:48 [aphillip]: Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2013Feb/0017.html
15:52:59 [David]: David has joined #i18n
15:53:11 [aphillip]: agenda+ Draft Review of Ruby Spec
15:53:28 [aphillip]: Agenda+ Isolating Direction in Bidi
15:53:44 [aphillip]: Agenda+ ISSUE 246
15:54:02 [aphillip]: Agenda+ CharMod-Norm
15:54:22 [aphillip]: Agenda+ Approve Ruby UC as WG Note
15:54:26 [aphillip]: Chair: Addison Phillips
15:54:38 [aphillip]: rrsagent, set logs world
15:54:39 [aphillip]: rrsagent, draft minutes
15:54:39 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/02/21-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
15:56:32 [DavidClarke]: DavidClarke has joined #i18n
15:58:08 [aphillip]: akim, who is here?
15:58:14 [aphillip]: zakim, who is here?
15:58:14 [Zakim]: I18N_CoreWG()11:00AM has not yet started, aphillip
15:58:15 [Zakim]: On IRC I see DavidClarke, David, Zakim, RRSAgent, aphillip, r12a, trackbot
15:59:14 [fsasaki]: fsasaki has joined #i18n
15:59:35 [Zakim]: I18N_CoreWG()11:00AM has now started
15:59:41 [Zakim]: +aphillip
15:59:50 [aphillip]: zakim, who is here?
15:59:50 [Zakim]: On the phone I see aphillip
15:59:51 [Zakim]: On IRC I see fsasaki, DavidClarke, Zakim, RRSAgent, aphillip, r12a, trackbot
15:59:58 [Zakim]: + +44.141.888.aaaa
16:00:03 [Zakim]: +??P22
16:00:09 [DavidClarke]: Zakim, +44 is me
16:00:11 [Zakim]: sorry, DavidClarke, I do not recognize a party named '+44'
16:00:49 [joconner]: joconner has joined #i18n
16:01:20 [r12a]: zakim, dial richard please
16:01:20 [Zakim]: ok, r12a; the call is being made
16:01:21 [Zakim]: +Richard
16:02:00 [r12a]: zakim, who's here?
16:02:00 [Zakim]: On the phone I see aphillip, DavidClarke, fsasaki (muted), Richard
16:02:01 [Zakim]: On IRC I see joconner, fsasaki, DavidClarke, Zakim, RRSAgent, aphillip, r12a, trackbot
16:02:13 [Zakim]: + +1.805.302.aabb
16:02:39 [aphillip]: Scribe: John O'Conner
16:02:46 [aphillip]: ScribeNick: joconner
16:03:00 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/02/21-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
16:03:13 [Zakim]: +fantasai
16:03:17 [Najib-ma]: Najib-ma has joined #i18n
16:03:40 [RRSAgent]: I'm logging. Sorry, nothing found for 'who is here'
16:04:04 [darobin]: darobin has joined #i18n
16:05:10 [aphillip]: zakim, agenda?
16:05:10 [Zakim]: I see 5 items remaining on the agenda:
16:05:12 [Zakim]: 1. Draft Review of Ruby Spec [from aphillip]
16:05:12 [Zakim]: 2. Isolating Direction in Bidi [from aphillip]
16:05:12 [Zakim]: 3. ISSUE 246 [from aphillip]
16:05:12 [Zakim]: 4. CharMod-Norm [from aphillip]
16:05:12 [Zakim]: 5. Approve Ruby UC as WG Note [from aphillip]
16:05:12 [fantasai]: fantasai has joined #i18n
16:05:31 [aphillip]: Topic: Agenda
16:05:40 [Norbert]: Norbert has joined #i18n
16:05:53 [joconner]: addison: nothing new for agenda
16:05:53 [aphillip]: Topic: Action Items
16:05:53 [Zakim]: +Norbert
16:06:00 [Zakim]: +??P9
16:06:04 [darobin]: Zakim, ??P9 is me
16:06:04 [Zakim]: +darobin; got it
16:06:12 [darobin]: Zakim, mute me
16:06:12 [Zakim]: darobin should now be muted
16:06:28 [r12a]: http://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/open
16:06:41 [joconner]: norbert: no eta on action item
16:06:53 [fsasaki]: fsasaki has joined #i18n
16:07:00 [aphillip]: http://www.w3.org/International/wiki/FloatingTime
16:07:10 [joconner]: addison: floating times in progress, not complete
16:07:26 [aphillip]: close ACTION-179
16:07:26 [trackbot]: Closed ACTION-179 Publish BOM document.
16:07:27 [fantasai]: agenda+ http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2013Feb/0100.html
16:07:32 [Zakim]: +??P32
16:08:12 [joconner]: addison: add floating times to pipeline
16:08:28 [r12a]: action: Addison to add floating times to pipeline
16:08:28 [trackbot]: Created ACTION-186 - Add floating times to pipeline [on Addison Phillips - due 2013-02-28].
16:08:33 [aphillip]: close ACTION-181
16:08:33 [trackbot]: Closed ACTION-181 Add shepherds list to review radar page.
16:08:51 [aphillip]: http://www.w3.org/International/wiki/CharmodNormProposal2013
16:09:01 [aphillip]: http://inter-locale.com/w3c/charmod-norm-1.1-draft.html
16:09:24 [aphillip]: close ACTION-184
16:09:24 [trackbot]: Closed ACTION-184 Remind group to review berjon's ruby spec extension proposal.
16:10:10 [aphillip]: close ACTION-185
16:10:10 [trackbot]: Closed ACTION-185 Publish blog post as wiki, put on front door, and announce to winter list.
16:10:22 [aphillip]: Topic: Info Share
16:10:35 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/02/21-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
16:11:35 [joconner]: richard: unicode has published blog post re status of non-characters
16:12:13 [aphillip]: zakim, agenda?
16:12:13 [Zakim]: I see 6 items remaining on the agenda:
16:12:14 [Zakim]: 1. Draft Review of Ruby Spec [from aphillip]
16:12:14 [Zakim]: 2. Isolating Direction in Bidi [from aphillip]
16:12:14 [Zakim]: 3. ISSUE 246 [from aphillip]
16:12:14 [Zakim]: 4. CharMod-Norm [from aphillip]
16:12:14 [Zakim]: 5. Approve Ruby UC as WG Note [from aphillip]
16:12:14 [Zakim]: 6. http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2013Feb/0100.html [from fantasai]
16:12:56 [joconner]: addison: added ruby as wg note on agenda
16:13:35 [aphillip]: zakim, take up agendum 1
16:13:35 [Zakim]: agendum 1. "Draft Review of Ruby Spec" taken up [from aphillip]
16:13:44 [darobin]: ack me
16:13:57 [darobin]: Zakim, mute me
16:13:57 [Zakim]: darobin should now be muted
16:14:02 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/02/21-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
16:14:14 [r12a]: http://darobin.github.com/html-ruby/
16:14:52 [r12a]: http://berjon.com/tmp/inception/playground/render-ruby/
16:15:07 [r12a]: http://rishida.net/misc/ruby/ruby-authoring.html
16:15:26 [aphillip]: richard: discuss document
16:15:28 [joconner]: richard: wrote article that shows how to markup ruby and outlines conformance
16:15:41 [darobin]: ack me
16:16:16 [darobin]: Zakim, mute me
16:16:16 [Zakim]: darobin should now be muted
16:16:37 [joconner]: no
16:16:41 [joconner]: who is speaking?
16:16:59 [darobin]: [motivation is essentially from http://www.w3.org/TR/ruby-use-cases/ and http://fantasai.inkedblade.net/weblog/2011/ruby/]
16:17:09 [joconner]: fantasai: discusses ruby use cases
16:19:36 [joconner]: fantasai: css engine must implement 2 layout models for ruby.
16:20:01 [joconner]: fantasai: html5 model for ruby is sufficient for simple cases
16:20:25 [joconner]: fantasai: more complicated use cases require more markup
16:20:56 [joconner]: fantasai: ruby model requires a lot of explicit markup
16:21:16 [r12a]: scribenick?
16:21:29 [joconner]: thanks
16:21:34 [r12a]: scribenick, joconner
16:22:29 [fsasaki]: present: aphillip, DavidClarke, fsasaki(30min), Richard, joconner, fantasai, Norbert, darobin (muted)
16:22:38 [r12a]: q+
16:22:51 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/02/21-i18n-minutes.html fsasaki
16:22:56 [joconner]: fantasai: double sided ruby requires additional rtc tag
16:23:07 [aphillip]: ack r12a
16:24:19 [aphillip]: rb.rb.rt.rt.rb.rb.rt.rt
16:24:29 [joconner]: richard: clarifies point in discussion of ruby
16:24:31 [r12a]: http://rishida.net/misc/ruby/ruby-authoring.html
16:25:01 [joconner]: …refer to section 1.1 and 1.3
16:25:02 [matial]: matial has joined #i18n
16:26:15 [Zakim]: +??P3
16:26:23 [darobin]: ack me
16:26:33 [matial]: zakim, ??p3 is me
16:26:33 [Zakim]: +matial; got it
16:26:41 [joconner]: speaker?
16:27:18 [darobin]: Zakim, mute me
16:27:18 [Zakim]: darobin should now be muted
16:27:28 [joconner]: fantasai: what inline behavior is wanted?
16:27:54 [joconner]: …problem with 3.3 is that we don't have enough information
16:28:06 [joconner]: …word boundaries aren't available
16:28:41 [joconner]: …what fallback behavior is wanted?
16:29:14 [joconner]: …from layout perspective, supporting all 3 is complicated
16:29:33 [darobin]: ack me
16:29:58 [darobin]: Zakim, mute me
16:29:58 [Zakim]: darobin should now be muted
16:30:13 [darobin]: ack me
16:30:17 [joconner]: addison: next steps?
16:31:30 [Zakim]: -fsasaki.a
16:31:34 [aharon]: aharon has joined #i18n
16:32:35 [Zakim]: +??P12
16:33:25 [joconner]: addison: html group will publish extension spec
16:34:32 [joconner]: addison: document looks good
16:35:09 [aphillip]: addison: to endorse, we would solicit larger feedback from winter@ and cjk@
16:35:10 [joconner]: richard: problems: how to attach styling to rb
16:35:18 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/02/21-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
16:35:19 [joconner]: … and fallback
16:36:27 [joconner]: darobin; provides options including changing html parser
16:37:12 [joconner]: ….can also expose as api
16:39:49 [joconner]: darobin: should we specify default locations for base?
16:39:58 [darobin]: s/darobin:/richard:/
16:40:04 [joconner]: sorry
16:40:59 [joconner]: richard: need implementation before end of year to include double sided ruby
16:41:48 [joconner]: fantasai: will require change to over/under
16:43:06 [aphillip]: richard: max of 2 sets per base
16:43:33 [joconner]: addison: action items?
16:43:54 [aphillip]: action: richard: provide darobin with contacts in browser vendors
16:43:54 [trackbot]: Created ACTION-187 - Provide darobin with contacts in browser vendors [on Richard Ishida - due 2013-02-28].
16:43:56 [joconner]: richard: inform robin about google contacts
16:44:21 [aphillip]: s/vendors/vendors for ruby ext spec impl/
16:44:36 [Zakim]: -darobin
16:44:42 [aphillip]: zakim, take up agendum 5
16:44:43 [Zakim]: agendum 5. "Approve Ruby UC as WG Note" taken up [from aphillip]
16:45:16 [aphillip]: richard: publish use cases documents
16:45:42 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/02/21-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
16:46:16 [r12a]: http://rishida.net/misc/ruby/ruby-authoring.html
16:46:25 [joconner]: richard: should merge two docs — use cases and ruby-authoring doc
16:47:15 [joconner]: addison: can't approved until merged work done
16:47:23 [aphillip]: action: richard: merge ruby documents for publication as a WG Note
16:47:24 [trackbot]: Created ACTION-188 - Merge ruby documents for publication as a WG Note [on Richard Ishida - due 2013-02-28].
16:47:43 [aphillip]: zakim, take up 2
16:47:43 [Zakim]: I don't understand 'take up 2', aphillip
16:47:52 [aphillip]: zakim, take up agendum 2
16:47:52 [Zakim]: agendum 2. "Isolating Direction in Bidi" taken up [from aphillip]
16:49:19 [joconner]: richard: suggests that using language isn't right approach
16:50:13 [joconner]: aharon: provides example of phone number that should be isolated and lang is inappropriate
16:51:00 [joconner]: addison: need to finalize directionality first
16:53:18 [aphillip]: aharon: @dir vs @direction, problem with length of name? discuss with fantasai
16:53:19 [joconner]: richard: admits that "direction" is long, but suggests that it is self-describing
16:54:40 [joconner]: fantasai: suggests that transition costs is high
16:56:09 [joconner]: richard: want to move to an attribute based solution
16:56:25 [Najib-ma]: q+
16:56:44 [aphillip]: ack Najib-ma
16:56:48 [Najib-ma]: Hello all,
16:56:50 [Najib-ma]: I'm not in favor of @lang attribute (also) for bidi purpose
16:56:52 [Najib-ma]: @lang attribute may be used for the purpose of rendering; e.g. speech, styling, font-type/size), etc. In general not to change direction of text.
16:56:53 [Najib-ma]: That's all
16:57:31 [aphillip]: addison: thanks, we agreed to deal with direction first and may consider @lang in the future
16:57:36 [joconner]: fantasai: lri aproach isn't confusing
16:59:55 [aphillip]: Topic: text-decoration
17:00:04 [aphillip]: fantasai: whitespace skip
17:00:14 [aphillip]: ... should that be Unicode space class charactes
17:00:20 [aphillip]: ... or also separators like ethoipic word space
17:00:39 [joconner]: richard: suggests that question be asked on email list
17:00:45 [aphillip]: richard: ask in email
17:01:42 [aphillip]: Topic: CharMod-Norm
17:01:47 [aphillip]: http://www.w3.org/International/wiki/CharmodNormProposal2013
17:02:01 [joconner]: addison: rewriting requirements, asking others to review
17:02:19 [r12a]: zakim, who's noisy?
17:02:29 [Zakim]: r12a, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: aharon (33%), aphillip (84%), DavidClarke (10%)
17:02:44 [aphillip]: Topic: AOB?
17:03:04 [aphillip]: aharon: set up a time to discuss direction
17:03:13 [aphillip]: ... need live time
17:03:37 [aphillip]: addison: next week or sooner?
17:04:05 [aphillip]: ... will reserve major block next week for bidi
17:04:22 [Zakim]: -fantasai
17:04:23 [Zakim]: -aphillip
17:04:26 [Zakim]: -DavidClarke
17:04:28 [Zakim]: -aharon
17:04:29 [Zakim]: -Norbert
17:04:35 [Zakim]: -joconner
17:04:39 [Zakim]: -matial
17:04:46 [aharon]: aharon has left #i18n
17:10:17 [r12a]: zakim, drop richard
17:10:17 [Zakim]: Richard is being disconnected
17:10:18 [Zakim]: -Richard
17:11:18 [r12a]: rrsagent, draft minutes
17:11:18 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/02/21-i18n-minutes.html r12a
17:22:45 [aphillip]: rrsagent, make minutes
17:22:45 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/02/21-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
17:22:47 [aphillip]: zakim, bye
17:22:47 [Zakim]: leaving. As of this point the attendees were aphillip, +44.141.888.aaaa, fsasaki, DavidClarke, Richard, +1.805.302.aabb, joconner, fantasai, Norbert, darobin, matial, aharon
17:22:47 [Zakim]: Zakim has left #i18n
17:23:36 [aphillip]: Present: Addison, Felix (partial), Richard, David, John O'Conner, Fantasai, Robin Berjon, Mati, Aharon
17:23:46 [aphillip]: rrsagent, make minutes
17:23:46 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/02/21-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
17:23:56 [r12a]: addison, i'm already editing the minutes
17:24:13 [r12a]: that stuff is about to be overwriting
17:24:35 [aphillip]: ah, okay... was just cleaning up
17:25:07 [r12a]: i'm just about to upload now, so i'm going to kill rrsagent to be safe ;-)
17:25:11 [r12a]: rrsagent, bye
17:25:11 [RRSAgent]: I see 3 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2013/02/21-i18n-actions.rdf :
17:25:11 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: Addison to add floating times to pipeline [1]
17:25:11 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/02/21-i18n-irc#T16-08-28
17:25:11 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: richard: provide darobin with contacts in browser vendors [2]
17:25:11 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/02/21-i18n-irc#T16-43-54
17:25:11 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: richard: merge ruby documents for publication as a WG Note [3]
17:25:11 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/02/21-i18n-irc#T16-47-23