15:52:09 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #i18n
15:52:09 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/02/21-i18n-irc
15:52:19 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #i18n
15:52:25 <aphillip> trackbot, prepare teleconference
15:52:27 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
15:52:29 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 4186
15:52:29 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see I18N_CoreWG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 8 minutes
15:52:30 <trackbot> Meeting: Internationalization Working Group Teleconference
15:52:30 <trackbot> Date: 21 February 2013
15:52:48 <aphillip> Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2013Feb/0017.html
15:52:59 <David> David has joined #i18n
15:53:11 <aphillip> agenda+ Draft Review of Ruby Spec
15:53:28 <aphillip> Agenda+ Isolating Direction in Bidi
15:53:44 <aphillip> Agenda+ ISSUE 246
15:54:02 <aphillip> Agenda+ CharMod-Norm
15:54:22 <aphillip> Agenda+ Approve Ruby UC as WG Note
15:54:26 <aphillip> Chair: Addison Phillips
15:54:38 <aphillip> rrsagent, set logs world
15:54:39 <aphillip> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:54:39 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/02/21-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
15:56:32 <DavidClarke> DavidClarke has joined #i18n
15:58:08 <aphillip> akim, who is here?
15:58:14 <aphillip> zakim, who is here?
15:58:14 <Zakim> I18N_CoreWG()11:00AM has not yet started, aphillip
15:58:15 <Zakim> On IRC I see DavidClarke, David, Zakim, RRSAgent, aphillip, r12a, trackbot
15:59:14 <fsasaki> fsasaki has joined #i18n
15:59:35 <Zakim> I18N_CoreWG()11:00AM has now started
15:59:41 <Zakim> +aphillip
15:59:50 <aphillip> zakim, who is here?
15:59:50 <Zakim> On the phone I see aphillip
15:59:51 <Zakim> On IRC I see fsasaki, DavidClarke, Zakim, RRSAgent, aphillip, r12a, trackbot
15:59:58 <Zakim> + +44.141.888.aaaa
16:00:03 <Zakim> +??P22
16:00:09 <DavidClarke> Zakim, +44 is me
16:00:11 <Zakim> sorry, DavidClarke, I do not recognize a party named '+44'
16:00:49 <joconner> joconner has joined #i18n
16:01:20 <r12a> zakim, dial richard please
16:01:20 <Zakim> ok, r12a; the call is being made
16:01:21 <Zakim> +Richard
16:02:00 <r12a> zakim, who's here?
16:02:00 <Zakim> On the phone I see aphillip, DavidClarke, fsasaki (muted), Richard
16:02:01 <Zakim> On IRC I see joconner, fsasaki, DavidClarke, Zakim, RRSAgent, aphillip, r12a, trackbot
16:02:13 <Zakim> + +1.805.302.aabb
16:02:39 <aphillip> Scribe: John O'Conner
16:02:46 <aphillip> ScribeNick: joconner
16:03:00 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/02/21-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
16:03:13 <Zakim> +fantasai
16:03:17 <Najib-ma> Najib-ma has joined #i18n
16:03:40 <RRSAgent> I'm logging.  Sorry, nothing found for 'who is here'
16:04:04 <darobin> darobin has joined #i18n
16:05:10 <aphillip> zakim, agenda?
16:05:10 <Zakim> I see 5 items remaining on the agenda:
16:05:12 <Zakim> 1. Draft Review of Ruby Spec [from aphillip]
16:05:12 <Zakim> 2. Isolating Direction in Bidi [from aphillip]
16:05:12 <Zakim> 3. ISSUE 246 [from aphillip]
16:05:12 <Zakim> 4. CharMod-Norm [from aphillip]
16:05:12 <Zakim> 5. Approve Ruby UC as WG Note [from aphillip]
16:05:12 <fantasai> fantasai has joined #i18n
16:05:31 <aphillip> Topic: Agenda
16:05:40 <Norbert> Norbert has joined #i18n
16:05:53 <joconner> addison: nothing new for agenda
16:05:53 <aphillip> Topic: Action Items
16:05:53 <Zakim> +Norbert
16:06:00 <Zakim> +??P9
16:06:04 <darobin> Zakim, ??P9 is me
16:06:04 <Zakim> +darobin; got it
16:06:12 <darobin> Zakim, mute me
16:06:12 <Zakim> darobin should now be muted
16:06:28 <r12a> http://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/open
16:06:41 <joconner> norbert: no eta on action item
16:06:53 <fsasaki> fsasaki has joined #i18n
16:07:00 <aphillip> http://www.w3.org/International/wiki/FloatingTime
16:07:10 <joconner> addison: floating times in progress, not complete
16:07:26 <aphillip> close ACTION-179
16:07:26 <trackbot> Closed ACTION-179 Publish BOM document.
16:07:27 <fantasai> agenda+ http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2013Feb/0100.html
16:07:32 <Zakim> +??P32
16:08:12 <joconner> addison: add floating times to pipeline
16:08:28 <r12a> action: Addison to add floating times to pipeline
16:08:28 <trackbot> Created ACTION-186 - Add floating times to pipeline [on Addison Phillips - due 2013-02-28].
16:08:33 <aphillip> close ACTION-181
16:08:33 <trackbot> Closed ACTION-181 Add shepherds list to review radar page.
16:08:51 <aphillip> http://www.w3.org/International/wiki/CharmodNormProposal2013
16:09:01 <aphillip> http://inter-locale.com/w3c/charmod-norm-1.1-draft.html
16:09:24 <aphillip> close ACTION-184
16:09:24 <trackbot> Closed ACTION-184 Remind group to review berjon's ruby spec extension proposal.
16:10:10 <aphillip> close ACTION-185
16:10:10 <trackbot> Closed ACTION-185 Publish blog post as wiki, put on front door, and announce to winter list.
16:10:22 <aphillip> Topic: Info Share
16:10:35 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/02/21-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
16:11:35 <joconner> richard: unicode has published blog post re status of non-characters
16:12:13 <aphillip> zakim, agenda?
16:12:13 <Zakim> I see 6 items remaining on the agenda:
16:12:14 <Zakim> 1. Draft Review of Ruby Spec [from aphillip]
16:12:14 <Zakim> 2. Isolating Direction in Bidi [from aphillip]
16:12:14 <Zakim> 3. ISSUE 246 [from aphillip]
16:12:14 <Zakim> 4. CharMod-Norm [from aphillip]
16:12:14 <Zakim> 5. Approve Ruby UC as WG Note [from aphillip]
16:12:14 <Zakim> 6. http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2013Feb/0100.html [from fantasai]
16:12:56 <joconner> addison: added ruby as wg note on agenda
16:13:35 <aphillip> zakim, take up agendum 1
16:13:35 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Draft Review of Ruby Spec" taken up [from aphillip]
16:13:44 <darobin> ack me
16:13:57 <darobin> Zakim, mute me
16:13:57 <Zakim> darobin should now be muted
16:14:02 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/02/21-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
16:14:14 <r12a> http://darobin.github.com/html-ruby/
16:14:52 <r12a> http://berjon.com/tmp/inception/playground/render-ruby/
16:15:07 <r12a> http://rishida.net/misc/ruby/ruby-authoring.html
16:15:26 <aphillip> richard: discuss document
16:15:28 <joconner> richard: wrote article that shows how to markup ruby and outlines conformance
16:15:41 <darobin> ack me
16:16:16 <darobin> Zakim, mute me
16:16:16 <Zakim> darobin should now be muted
16:16:37 <joconner> no
16:16:41 <joconner> who is speaking?
16:16:59 <darobin> [motivation is essentially from http://www.w3.org/TR/ruby-use-cases/ and http://fantasai.inkedblade.net/weblog/2011/ruby/]
16:17:09 <joconner> fantasai: discusses ruby use cases
16:19:36 <joconner> fantasai: css engine must implement 2 layout models for ruby.
16:20:01 <joconner> fantasai: html5 model for ruby is sufficient for simple cases
16:20:25 <joconner> fantasai: more complicated use cases require more markup
16:20:56 <joconner> fantasai: ruby model requires a lot of explicit markup
16:21:16 <r12a> scribenick?
16:21:29 <joconner> thanks
16:21:34 <r12a> scribenick, joconner
16:22:29 <fsasaki> present: aphillip, DavidClarke, fsasaki(30min), Richard, joconner, fantasai, Norbert, darobin (muted)
16:22:38 <r12a> q+
16:22:51 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/02/21-i18n-minutes.html fsasaki
16:22:56 <joconner> fantasai: double sided ruby requires additional rtc tag
16:23:07 <aphillip> ack r12a
16:24:19 <aphillip> rb.rb.rt.rt.rb.rb.rt.rt
16:24:29 <joconner> richard: clarifies point in discussion of ruby
16:24:31 <r12a> http://rishida.net/misc/ruby/ruby-authoring.html
16:25:01 <joconner> …refer to section 1.1 and 1.3
16:25:02 <matial> matial has joined #i18n
16:26:15 <Zakim> +??P3
16:26:23 <darobin> ack me
16:26:33 <matial> zakim, ??p3 is me
16:26:33 <Zakim> +matial; got it
16:26:41 <joconner> speaker?
16:27:18 <darobin> Zakim, mute me
16:27:18 <Zakim> darobin should now be muted
16:27:28 <joconner> fantasai: what inline behavior is wanted?
16:27:54 <joconner> …problem with 3.3 is that we don't have enough information
16:28:06 <joconner> …word boundaries aren't available
16:28:41 <joconner> …what fallback behavior is wanted?
16:29:14 <joconner> …from layout perspective, supporting all 3 is complicated
16:29:33 <darobin> ack me
16:29:58 <darobin> Zakim, mute me
16:29:58 <Zakim> darobin should now be muted
16:30:13 <darobin> ack me
16:30:17 <joconner> addison: next steps?
16:31:30 <Zakim> -fsasaki.a
16:31:34 <aharon> aharon has joined #i18n
16:32:35 <Zakim> +??P12
16:33:25 <joconner> addison: html group will publish extension spec
16:34:32 <joconner> addison: document looks good
16:35:09 <aphillip> addison: to endorse, we would solicit larger feedback from winter@ and cjk@
16:35:10 <joconner> richard: problems: how to attach styling to rb
16:35:18 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/02/21-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
16:35:19 <joconner> … and fallback
16:36:27 <joconner> darobin; provides options including changing html parser
16:37:12 <joconner> ….can also expose as api
16:39:49 <joconner> darobin: should we specify default locations for base?
16:39:58 <darobin> s/darobin:/richard:/
16:40:04 <joconner> sorry
16:40:59 <joconner> richard: need implementation before end of year to include double sided ruby
16:41:48 <joconner> fantasai: will require change to over/under
16:43:06 <aphillip> richard: max of 2 sets per base
16:43:33 <joconner> addison: action items?
16:43:54 <aphillip> action: richard: provide darobin with contacts in browser vendors
16:43:54 <trackbot> Created ACTION-187 - Provide darobin with contacts in browser vendors [on Richard Ishida - due 2013-02-28].
16:43:56 <joconner> richard: inform robin about google contacts
16:44:21 <aphillip> s/vendors/vendors for ruby ext spec impl/
16:44:36 <Zakim> -darobin
16:44:42 <aphillip> zakim, take up agendum 5
16:44:43 <Zakim> agendum 5. "Approve Ruby UC as WG Note" taken up [from aphillip]
16:45:16 <aphillip> richard: publish use cases documents
16:45:42 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/02/21-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
16:46:16 <r12a> http://rishida.net/misc/ruby/ruby-authoring.html
16:46:25 <joconner> richard: should merge two docs — use cases and ruby-authoring doc
16:47:15 <joconner> addison: can't approved until merged work done
16:47:23 <aphillip> action: richard: merge ruby documents for publication as a WG Note
16:47:24 <trackbot> Created ACTION-188 - Merge ruby documents for publication as a WG Note [on Richard Ishida - due 2013-02-28].
16:47:43 <aphillip> zakim, take up 2
16:47:43 <Zakim> I don't understand 'take up 2', aphillip
16:47:52 <aphillip> zakim, take up agendum 2
16:47:52 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Isolating Direction in Bidi" taken up [from aphillip]
16:49:19 <joconner> richard: suggests that using language isn't right approach
16:50:13 <joconner> aharon: provides example of phone number that should be isolated and lang is inappropriate
16:51:00 <joconner> addison: need to finalize directionality first
16:53:18 <aphillip> aharon: @dir vs @direction, problem with length of name? discuss with fantasai
16:53:19 <joconner> richard: admits that "direction" is long, but suggests that it is self-describing
16:54:40 <joconner> fantasai: suggests that transition costs is high
16:56:09 <joconner> richard: want to move to an attribute based solution
16:56:25 <Najib-ma> q+
16:56:44 <aphillip> ack Najib-ma
16:56:48 <Najib-ma> Hello all,
16:56:50 <Najib-ma> I'm not in favor of @lang attribute (also) for bidi purpose
16:56:52 <Najib-ma> @lang attribute may be used for the purpose of rendering; e.g. speech, styling, font-type/size), etc. In general not to change direction of text.
16:56:53 <Najib-ma> That's all
16:57:31 <aphillip> addison: thanks, we agreed to deal with direction first and may consider @lang in the future
16:57:36 <joconner> fantasai: lri aproach isn't confusing
16:59:55 <aphillip> Topic: text-decoration
17:00:04 <aphillip> fantasai: whitespace skip
17:00:14 <aphillip> ... should that be Unicode space class charactes
17:00:20 <aphillip> ... or also separators like ethoipic word space
17:00:39 <joconner> richard: suggests that question be asked on email list
17:00:45 <aphillip> richard: ask in email
17:01:42 <aphillip> Topic: CharMod-Norm
17:01:47 <aphillip> http://www.w3.org/International/wiki/CharmodNormProposal2013
17:02:01 <joconner> addison: rewriting requirements, asking others to review
17:02:19 <r12a> zakim, who's noisy?
17:02:29 <Zakim> r12a, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: aharon (33%), aphillip (84%), DavidClarke (10%)
17:02:44 <aphillip> Topic: AOB?
17:03:04 <aphillip> aharon: set up a time to discuss direction
17:03:13 <aphillip> ... need live time
17:03:37 <aphillip> addison: next week or sooner?
17:04:05 <aphillip> ... will reserve major block next week for bidi
17:04:22 <Zakim> -fantasai
17:04:23 <Zakim> -aphillip
17:04:26 <Zakim> -DavidClarke
17:04:28 <Zakim> -aharon
17:04:29 <Zakim> -Norbert
17:04:35 <Zakim> -joconner
17:04:39 <Zakim> -matial
17:04:46 <aharon> aharon has left #i18n
17:10:17 <r12a> zakim, drop richard
17:10:17 <Zakim> Richard is being disconnected
17:10:18 <Zakim> -Richard
17:11:18 <r12a> rrsagent, draft minutes
17:11:18 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/02/21-i18n-minutes.html r12a
17:22:45 <aphillip> rrsagent, make minutes
17:22:45 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/02/21-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
17:22:47 <aphillip> zakim, bye
17:22:47 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees were aphillip, +44.141.888.aaaa, fsasaki, DavidClarke, Richard, +1.805.302.aabb, joconner, fantasai, Norbert, darobin, matial, aharon
17:22:47 <Zakim> Zakim has left #i18n
17:23:36 <aphillip> Present: Addison, Felix (partial), Richard, David, John O'Conner, Fantasai, Robin Berjon, Mati, Aharon
17:23:46 <aphillip> rrsagent, make minutes
17:23:46 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/02/21-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
17:23:56 <r12a> addison, i'm already editing the minutes
17:24:13 <r12a> that stuff is about to be overwriting
17:24:35 <aphillip> ah, okay... was just cleaning up
17:25:07 <r12a> i'm just about to upload now, so i'm going to kill rrsagent to be safe ;-)
17:25:11 <r12a> rrsagent, bye
17:25:11 <RRSAgent> I see 3 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2013/02/21-i18n-actions.rdf :
17:25:11 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Addison to add floating times to pipeline [1]
17:25:11 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/02/21-i18n-irc#T16-08-28
17:25:11 <RRSAgent> ACTION: richard: provide darobin with contacts in browser vendors [2]
17:25:11 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/02/21-i18n-irc#T16-43-54
17:25:11 <RRSAgent> ACTION: richard: merge ruby documents for publication as a WG Note [3]
17:25:11 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/02/21-i18n-irc#T16-47-23