W3C

- DRAFT -

mlw-lt wg

28 Jan 2013

See also: IRC log

Attendees

Present
Karl, Olaf-Michael, shaunm, joerg (IRC), Pedro, Giuseppe, Clemens, Pablo, leroy, mdelolmo, Marcis, Ankit, DomJones, chriLi, felix (partially on IRC), Serge
Regrets
Dave, David, Felix, Naoto, Yves
Chair
Arle
Scribe
Arle

Contents


issue review

Minutes from Prague can be seen here: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013Jan/0197.html

See http://services.w3.org/xslt?xslfile=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FInternational%2Fmultilingualweb%2Flt%2Fdrafts%2Fits20%2Ftools%2Fxslt%2Fdisco-for-its20.xsl&xmlfile=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FInternational%2Fmultilingualweb%2Flt%2Ftrack%2Fapi%2Fdump%3Ffull&content-type=&submit=transform for the list of issues.

Start from http://services.w3.org/xslt?xslfile=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FInternational%2Fmultilingualweb%2Flt%2Fdrafts%2Fits20%2Ftools%2Fxslt%2Fdisco-for-its20.xsl&xmlfile=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FInternational%2Fmultilingualweb%2Flt%2Ftrack%2Fapi%2Fdump%3Ffull&content-type=&submit=transform

issue-67?

<trackbot> ISSUE-67 -- Change definition of regular expression for allowed characters -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/67

Shaun: can you hear us?
... Wrote an email to a list with a safe subset of regex character classes. It is smaller in features than anticipated, but for six engines, that is what it wa.
... When we last spoke, I'm not sure what the decision was.

Arle: No decision taken in Prague.

Shaun: I will continue and try to write a portable regular expression to describe the portable regular expression. We don't want to accidentally use a feature in some engine.

Arle: We will have to go to another last call anyway, so we can continue.

issue-105?

<trackbot> ISSUE-105 -- I18N-ISSUE-245: Consider replacing Unicode block escapes with script escapes [ITS-20] -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/105

Shaun: We need to point to one specification to explain regex, even if we use a subset.

issue-69?

<trackbot> ISSUE-69 -- recursive nesting of external rules -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/69

issue-70?

<trackbot> ISSUE-70 -- Defined order of precedence missing inherited local values -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/70

No comment

<fsasaki> Sorry, on irc only. But.for the record, "another last call anyway " is not yet true.

issue-71?

<trackbot> ISSUE-71 -- Section 5.8 (annotatorsRef) -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/71

no comment

issue-72?

<trackbot> ISSUE-72 -- Section 8.12 (Provenance Data Category) -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/72

no comments

issue-73?

<trackbot> ISSUE-73 -- NIF comments -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/73

no comments

Christian: Actually, Felix wants to reach out to Sebastian Hellman to clarify the status of NIF 1.0 and 2.0.

issue-74?

<trackbot> ISSUE-74 -- Comment on ITS 2.0 WD-its20-20121206 - Section 1.1 (Relation to ITS 1.0 and New Principles) -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/74

Christian: Before moving on, I haven't checked on the connection between canonical XML, Unicode normalization, and regular expression.

Shaun: In general, regex is a mess with respect to Unicode normalization.
..Example: E + combining acute, if U+00E9 matches is up to the regex engine and whether it handles normalization.
... It is a huge mess. I would strongly recommend that people normalize their Unicode.

Christian: This is good information. Makes a stronger case for Unicode normalization.

Shaun: Would normally recommend normalization at every step. If there are chains where people don't do this, perhaps they have reasons. So I don't know if we say we MUST normalize, or if it is best practice.
... I would like to hear from people who make non-normalized Unicode. I don't know who they are and if there are problems.

<scribe> ACTION: Shaun to draft text explaining importance of Unicode normalization and best practices on ISSUE-67 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/01/28-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-430 - Draft text explaining importance of Unicode normalization and best practices on ISSUE-67 [on Shaun McCance - due 2013-02-04].

Christian: Thanks, Shaun for doing that.

Karl: Should be only a note, and not include a MUST. In the complete standard, we should tell people how to do things, not MUST.

Arle: +1

<fsasaki> +1 to karl

<omstefanov> +1 to Karl, too, based on experience with UN legacy texts

No comments on issue-74

issue-75?

<trackbot> ISSUE-75 -- Comments related to "domain" -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/75

Christian: for issue-74, I've tried to talk to Dave and David, but haven't heard back yet.

Jörg, any comments on issue-75?

See: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt-comments/2013Jan/0022.html

<joerg> I haven't got any feedback so far on http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt-comments/2013Jan/0143.html

Christian: Thanks to Jörg for his summaries and shepherding. His summaries are good and adequate. So far we only have resolved two of the three issues.
... Only 2b has been resolved.

issue-76?

<trackbot> ISSUE-76 -- clarification of "inconsistency" quality issue type needed -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/76

Arle: I have to provide the text.

issue-77?

<trackbot> ISSUE-77 -- Precedence of global rules in HTML if both links and inline rules with "script" are available -- closed

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/77

http://www.w3.org/2013/01/23-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action04

<fsasaki> Hi all, I have to leave, please write any complaint in irc, will look later :-)

<pnietoca> Yes Jirka was the sheperd

<pnietoca> see http://www.w3.org/2013/01/21-mlw-lt-minutes.html

issue-78?

<trackbot> ISSUE-78 -- I18N-ISSUE-203: Use of rel values in HTML -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/78

No comments.

issue-79?

<trackbot> ISSUE-79 -- I18N-ISSUE-204: Use of namespaces and HTML -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/79

Olaf-Michael: Sounds like a simple clarification.

Arle: +1

issue-80?

<trackbot> ISSUE-80 -- I18N-ISSUE-205: Examples of html markup in section 6 -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/80

No comments

issue-81?

<trackbot> ISSUE-81 -- I18N-ISSUE-207: Term data category and dfn element -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/81

<Marcis> I think it was mentioned that this should be in a best practice document

Arle: We would suggest mappings, but not be mandatory.

<chriLi> http://www.w3.org/TR/its/#associating-its-with-existing-markup

<Marcis> The mapping goes one way but not the other way

Christian: Maybe this explanation could be in a similar place where we had it for ITS 1.0.

Marcis: If I recall, we discussed that the definition element is a sub-category of term, since you need a definition in HTML content, and only then can you use <dfn>, so we left with the understanding that it is in best-practice and not in the normative section.

Christian: Old section 5 was normative.

Arle: Question of prominence.

<scribe> ACTION: Arle to discuss with Felix the best location for this mapping list on issue-81 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/01/28-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-431 - Discuss with Felix the best location for this mapping list on issue-81 [on Arle Lommel - due 2013-02-04].

Christian: For ITS 1.0, we used "associating" with existing markup. May be clearer with mapping, to resolve issues of bidirectionally.

Arle: "Associating" is fine.

issue-82

<trackbot> ISSUE-82 -- I18N-ISSUE-208: Mapping domains to nothing -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/82

no comments.

issue-83?

<trackbot> ISSUE-83 -- Notes on loc quality issue section -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/83

Arle: Can't point to EN-15038. Out of scope. TS-11669 is more relevant, defines expectations about translation.
... Recommendation was to address quality in framework of TS-11669. That is be listed as an example of what the quality profile might point to, at a minimum.

Christian: I still don't get the difference between metrics and expectations, metrics, etc.
... Explained some about it.
... I think it changes the semantics of the pointer. IF you use parameters instead of metric.

<scribe> ACTION: Arle to draft out the differences in more detail on ISSUE-83. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/01/28-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action03]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-432 - Draft out the differences in more detail on ISSUE-83. [on Arle Lommel - due 2013-02-04].

Christian: For buyers, you would point to an SLA.
... We need to clarify what is here.

issue-84?

<trackbot> ISSUE-84 -- translate ITS 2.0 requirements w.r.t Indian [Indic] languages -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/84

Arle: Dave is taking care of this. We rejected most of them as out of scope.

Olaf-Michael: Does anyone in the WG have experience with Indic languages?

Serge: We translate into those languages.

<chriLi> Aside: We got input which possibly overlaps already for ITS 1.0 (see http://www.w3.org/wiki/Its0908LinguisticMarkup)

Ankit: I have this experience. The issues they raise are valid, but as Dave replied, I agree.

Christian: We did not include that into our requirements for 1.0.

issue-85?

<trackbot> ISSUE-85 -- NLP Interchange Format (NIF) - 1.0/2.0, Canonical XML, Unicode Normalization Forms -- closed

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/85

Duplicate of ISSUE-73

issue-86?

<trackbot> ISSUE-86 -- Comment on ITS 2.0 specification WD, i18n-ISSUE-209: Implementation commitment -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/86

Arle: This one is unsettled at present.

No comments.

issue-87?

<trackbot> ISSUE-87 -- Comment on ITS 2.0 specification WD, i18n-ISSUE-210: Whitespace in ruby example -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/87

No comments

issue-88?

<trackbot> ISSUE-88 -- Comment on ITS 2.0 specification WD, i18n-ISSUE-211: Quote element in HTML [should be cite, q, or blockquote] -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/88

No comments.

issue-89?

<trackbot> ISSUE-89 -- Comment on ITS 2.0 specification WD, i18n-ISSUE-212: HTML5 in the ITS spec -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/89

Arle: To clarify we mean HTML5, not all HTML

No comments

issue-90?

<trackbot> ISSUE-90 -- Comment on ITS 2.0 specification WD, i18n-ISSUE-214: directionality should be made normative, with informative additions -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/90

Arle: Not in minutes from Prague.

issue-91?

<trackbot> ISSUE-91 -- Comment on ITS 2.0 specification WD, i18n-ISSUE-215: Parts of Ruby section should be removed -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/91

issue-92?

<trackbot> ISSUE-92 -- Comment on ITS 2.0 specification WD, i18n-ISSUE-216: Locale filter note -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/92

Arle: accepted. Moving text around in editorial fashion.

No comments.

issue-93?

<trackbot> ISSUE-93 -- Case-insensitivity mode for predefined tokens undefined; should be ASCII-case-insensitivity -- closed

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/93

No comments.

Arle: review minutes: http://www.w3.org/2013/01/23-mlw-lt-minutes.html and http://www.w3.org/2013/01/24-mlw-lt-minutes.html and send comments

AOB

Olaf-Michael: What's the schedule?

Arle: You can attend one or both per week.

Christian: We have a tighter meeting schedule to drive the schedule.

Arle: Please raise issues in meetings you can attend.
... Also, in the next meeting, Felix will explain the repeat last-call procedure.

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: Arle to discuss with Felix the best location for this mapping list on issue-81 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/01/28-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: Arle to draft out the differences in more detail on ISSUE-83. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/01/28-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: Shaun to draft text explaining importance of Unicode normalization and best practices on ISSUE-67 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/01/28-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action01]
 
[End of minutes]

Minutes formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl version 1.137 (CVS log)
$Date: 2013-01-28 16:14:34 $