<trackbot> Date: 04 October 2012

<heycam> ScribeNick: krit

Telcom time

heycam: time shoifts in australia
... europe in 3-4 weeks
... japan doesn't
... i suggest satying with the current time till all changed their time

cabanier: nothing changes?

heycam: for the moment

mask-type keywords on the mask-type property

<heycam> http://www.w3.org/mid/ED32692D-189D-47EE-B610-46EA0B8A07E6@adobe.com

heycam: we need to allow these keywords for mask references inside the property
... parsers might not know if the reference is a mask or image
... it seems not to make sense to overwrite the settings of the property mask-type on a mask
... but doing nothing seems worst
... so we should define what these keywords do on the mask proiperty

krit: my take is that mask element should know better if it allows luminance and alpha or just one

heycam: I would think so as well, but overwriting, as suggested by Brian, seems to make more sense in general

krit: that might be that a luminance mask, with mask: ref alpha, would result in a totally masked element

heycam: yes, might be
... the author should know better.
... ignoring seems worst, and it seems not consistent

krit: maybe we want to add auto to mask-type

heycam: ah, ok. I still would suggest not to add auto and let mask property override the mask-type property for consistency on mask type values

birtles: it seems not entirely unpossible that you get the result to the result

heycam: is it possible to add auto to mask property as well?

cabanier: there must be a computed value

heycam: yes, but it matters what it gets calculated to

cabanier: how is it done in other places?

heycam: birtles: me thinking that as well

cabanier: don't think that we have a switch in other places dependent on the content

krit: me neither

heycam: so we don't have an auto value yet, so no problem now
... so don't introduce it
... yes, if the mask type value is present, then it will override the mask-type property of the mask element

resolution: if the mask type value on the mask property is present, then it will override the mask-type property of the mask element

Dmitry's feedback on SVG

<heycam> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2012AprJun/0006.html

<birtles> http://raphaeljs.com/reference.html#Element.getBBox

getBBox with transforms applied, and x2,y2 as bottom/right

krit: I would encapsle the element in a g element and get the transform from this

<heycam> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Requirements_Input#Make_it_possible_to_get_the_bounding_box_of_an_element_in_a_particular_coordinate_system

heycam: I think we discussed it before. You needed a parent element and get the transformation of the current element to this parent element

<heycam> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/Proposals/getBBoxOf

birtles: this suggestion, to get the bbox in another coordinate system, does it transform the points or axis aligned rectangle in the target coordinate spece

heycam: the later one
... the alternative, in gecko we have a transformBound function
... the matrix you want to transfrom the points by.

cabanier: it is easy to do it yourself

krit: yes, but a lot of graphic JS library does it. So why not put it in the browser
... is it exposed? how does it work?

heycam: no, we use it internally

krit: it might be good to do this together with the matrix4x4 proposal

heycam: status of matrix4x4?

krit: no one is wokring on it at the moment

heycam: if we had a transformBound function, would it still be necessary getBBoxOf?
... if we had a transformBound function, would it still be necessary to have getBBoxOf?
... you could do getCTM of the target element, but like explicit methods
... or current element
... or get both transforms and calculate the transformation between the two CTMs

<ed> you'd probably use the getTransformToElement function (in svg 1.1)

<ed> http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG11/types.html#__svg__SVGLocatable__getTransformToElement

ed: you would use getTransformToElement function

heycam: I thought in addition to this function
... or as alternative getBBoxIn
... might be more existing with current bbox system

cabanier: getBBoxOf might be more useful

krit: I am happy with getBBoxX, but wouldn't go further

birtles: document stuff makes any sense to support as iframe

<birtles> I wonder if it makes sense to be able to use the coordinate space of elements in a seamless iframe

heycam: you might be right
... there is a lot of things that doesn't make sense in multiple documents
... that is a general issue that we solve once we come to it
... or SVG fragments into an HTML document
... you can define sth that works
... bounding box has the defintion that it does not include the transformation, maybe a different name?

krit: bounding box has the defintion that it does not include the transformation, maybe a different name?

heycam: well, it still makes sense
... if you call getBBox on the parent, it still takes the transformation of children into account
... so it does not always ignore transforms

krit: you are right

resolution: Add getBBoxOf to SVGLocatable interface

heycam: should i come up with a proposal for transformBound?

krit: I think it should be part of a matrix4x4

birtles: it doesn't matter to much
... it can move later anyway

<heycam> ISSUE: Consider having a transformBounds method either on SVGMatrix or CSSMatrix4x4

<trackbot> Created ISSUE-2445 - Consider having a transformBounds method either on SVGMatrix or CSSMatrix4x4 ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2445/edit .

heycam: we can put it on SVGMatrix and make an inheritance hierachy and put the stuff into a new matrix proposal
... SVGMatrix would inherit from the new definiton

<scribe> ACTION: krit will talk to Dean Jackson how to continue with matrix4x4 proposal [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/10/04-svg-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find krit. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/users>.

<scribe> ACTION: Dirk will talk to Dean Jackson how to continue with matrix4x4 proposal [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/10/04-svg-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-3389 - Will talk to Dean Jackson how to continue with matrix4x4 proposal [on Dirk Schulze - due 2012-10-11].

heycam: the transformation proposal

krit: I would like to add bug reports and try to address some of these in the next level of transforms
... CSS Transforms

heycam: I am no so sure about the shorthands
... I am no so sure about the short-hands
... I am no so sure about the shortands

krit: I would suggest to discuss it on the FX TF

heycam: yeah, just think that shorthand syntax does not fit very well to CSS Transforms
... We know about the API issues and should come up with a proposal

krit: We still wait for CSSOM

<heycam> https://svgwg.org/svg2-draft/coords.html#InterfaceSVGTransformList

<heycam> see the getter and setter on there

heycam: added setter and getter to SVGTransformList so you can do transform[2] and get the second entry of the list
... transform[2, newItem]

<heycam> transform[2] = newItem

krit: ah, functionality great, the defiintion in the IDL seems strange
... method isPointInside

<heycam> https://svgwg.org/svg2-draft/types.html#InterfaceSVGGeometryElement

heycam: I wonder if isPointInFill handles it already

cabanier: does isPointInFill also work on group elements?

heycam: no, it is stock to SVGGeomentryElement

krit: getElementsByPoint gives you all elements under a certain point, right?

<ed> http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG11/struct.html#__svg__SVGSVGElement__getIntersectionList

heycam: I think getIntersectionList does that

krit: I think there was a problem is that for getIntersectionList just gives you the elements under the current SVGSVGElement

heycam: take the root SVG element
... but me be good to have a function that just takes a point, not only a rect
... do we want to allow it on any element and not just SVGSVGElement?

krit: you have a reference element

heycam: right, but you might expect to put it directly on the g
... you don't want to transform your point to the CTM of the element that you are interested in
... I think would be nice to have it on the element itself

krit: does it mean that the point also needs to be in the CTM of the current element?

heycam: yes

krit: and what about the intersectionlist?

heycam: well I guess you already have your point in this CTM
... can we have a isPointInElement like Dmitry suggests beside isPointInFill and isPointInStroke

<heycam> isPointInElement

<heycam> have that on any SVGLocatable

krit: does not tell if it is on bbox or visible par

t

<ed> we do have pointer-events="boundingbox"

heycam: it depends on pointer events

krit: but you might want it independet of this property

<ed> (well, at least it's in tiny 1.2)

krit: I still think you might want to have this functoin independent of the current setting in pointer events

heycam: or we have an extra argument that takes a pointer-event value

<heycam> isPointInElement(mySVGPoint, "boundingBox")

heycam: and can override the settings of the element, just for this method

<heycam> isPointInElement(mySVGPoint, "all")

heycam: this argument would be optional

ed: I think I prefer what you suggested earlier
... I don't know if it's a good idea to inherit the pointer event to the last child
... I would like to see more detailed proposal even if I like to have this functionality

<scribe> ACTION: Cameron to come up with a proposal for isPointInElement and pointer events [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/10/04-svg-minutes.html#action03]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-3390 - Come up with a proposal for isPointInElement and pointer events [on Cameron McCormack - due 2012-10-11].

heycam: getElementsByPoint seems to be interessting
... since you often don't want to have a rectangle

<scribe> ACTION: Cameron Will also investigate in getElementsByPoint [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/10/04-svg-minutes.html#action04]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-3391 - Will also investigate in getElementsByPoint [on Cameron McCormack - due 2012-10-11].

krit: maybe we should discuss the other methods on the mailing list

heycam: maybe

<scribe> ACTION: Dirk will start discussion to other proposed methods [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/10/04-svg-minutes.html#action05]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-3392 - Will start discussion to other proposed methods [on Dirk Schulze - due 2012-10-11].

<heycam> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2012JulSep/0214.html

SVG2

SVG2!!!!!!

heycam: keep it SVG 2 but allow SVG2 as well outside the spec

This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.137  of Date: 2012/09/20 20:19:01  
Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/

Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Succeeded: s/there/their/
Succeeded: s/axis alive/axis aligned/
Succeeded: s/rect angle/rectangle/
Succeeded: s/it be/it still be necessary/
Succeeded: s/havegetBBoxOf/have getBBoxOf/
Succeeded: s/I don't want/I don't know if it's a good idea/
Found ScribeNick: krit
Inferring Scribes: krit
Default Present: birtles, [IPcaller], heycam, cabanier, krit, ed, +33.9.53.77.aaaa, Tav, Rich
Present: birtles [IPcaller] heycam cabanier krit ed +33.9.53.77.aaaa Tav Rich
Found Date: 04 Oct 2012
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2012/10/04-svg-minutes.html
People with action items: cameron dirk discussion krit start talk will

WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines.
You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.