21:00:44 RRSAgent has joined #svg 21:00:44 logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/10/04-svg-irc 21:00:46 RRSAgent, make logs public 21:00:48 Zakim, this will be GA_SVGWG 21:00:48 ok, trackbot, I see GA_SVGWG(SVG1)5:00PM already started 21:00:49 Meeting: SVG Working Group Teleconference 21:00:49 Date: 04 October 2012 21:01:10 Zakim, who's here? 21:01:10 On the phone I see [IPcaller] 21:01:24 Zakim, IPcaller is me 21:01:24 +birtles; got it 21:01:50 +[IPcaller] 21:01:53 Zakim, [ is me 21:01:53 +heycam; got it 21:01:55 +cabanier 21:02:10 krit has joined #svg 21:02:41 +Oliver_Goldman 21:02:42 Chair: Cameron 21:03:33 Zakim, Oliver_Goldman is krit 21:03:33 +krit; got it 21:06:43 ScribeNick: krit 21:07:01 topic: Telcom time 21:07:19 heycam: time shoifts in australia 21:07:26 heycam: europe in 3-4 weeks 21:07:35 heycam: japan doesn't 21:08:02 +??P0 21:08:10 heycam: i suggest satying with the current time till all changed there time 21:08:17 s/there/their/ 21:08:31 cabanier: nothing changes? 21:08:34 heycam: for the moment 21:09:06 + +33.9.53.77.aaaa 21:09:27 zakim, +33 is me 21:09:27 +Tav; got it 21:09:34 topic: mask-type keywords on the mask-type property 21:09:40 http://www.w3.org/mid/ED32692D-189D-47EE-B610-46EA0B8A07E6@adobe.com 21:10:16 heycam: we need to allow these keywords for mask references inside the property 21:10:50 heycam: parsers might not know if the reference is a mask or image 21:11:22 heycam: it seems not to make sense to overwrite the settings of the property mask-type on a mask 21:11:32 heycam: but doing nothing seems worst 21:11:59 heycam: so we should define what these keywords do on the mask proiperty 21:12:47 krit: my take is that mask element should know better if it allows luminance and alpha or just one 21:13:18 heycam: I would think so as well, but overwriting, as suggested by Brian, seems to make more sense in general 21:14:03 krit: that might be that a luminance mask, with mask: ref alpha, would result in a totally masked element 21:14:07 heycam: yes, might be 21:14:19 heycam: the author should know better. 21:14:54 heycam: ignoring seems worst, and it seems not consistent 21:15:11 krit: maybe we want to add auto to mask-type 21:15:54 heycam: ah, ok. I still would suggest not to add auto and let mask property override the mask-type property for consistency on mask type values 21:16:35 birtles: it seems not entirely unpossible that you get the result to the result 21:16:56 heycam: is it possible to add auto to mask property as well? 21:17:04 cabanier: there must be a computed value 21:17:25 heycam: yes, but it matters what it gets calculated to 21:17:41 cabanier: how is it done in other places? 21:17:51 heycam: birtles: me thinking that as well 21:18:10 cabanier: don't think that we have a switch in other places dependent on the content 21:18:15 krit: me neither 21:18:37 heycam: so we don't have an auto value yet, so no problem now 21:18:40 richardschwerdtfe has joined #svg 21:18:43 heycam: so don't introduce it 21:19:41 heycam: yes, if the mask type value is present, then it will override the mask-type property of the mask element 21:20:01 resolution: if the mask type value on the mask property is present, then it will override the mask-type property of the mask element 21:20:42 topic: Dmitry's feedback on SVG 21:20:43 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2012AprJun/0006.html 21:22:17 http://raphaeljs.com/reference.html#Element.getBBox 21:22:24 getBBox with transforms applied, and x2,y2 as bottom/right 21:22:30 +Rich 21:23:14 krit: I would encapsle the element in a g element and get the transform from this 21:23:37 http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Requirements_Input#Make_it_possible_to_get_the_bounding_box_of_an_element_in_a_particular_coordinate_system 21:23:55 heycam: I think we discussed it before. You needed a parent element and get the transformation of the current element to this parent element 21:24:10 http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/Proposals/getBBoxOf 21:25:04 birtles: this suggestion, to get the bbox in another coordinate system, does it transform the points or axis alive rect angle in the target coordinate spece 21:25:08 heycam: the later one 21:25:20 s/axis alive/axis aligned 21:25:45 heycam: the alternative, in gecko we have a transformBound function 21:25:47 s/rect angle/rectangle 21:26:15 heycam: the matrix you want to transfrom the points by. 21:26:38 cabanier: it is easy to do it yourself 21:26:56 krit: yes, but a lot of graphic JS library does it. So why not put it in the browser 21:27:35 krit: is it exposed? how does it work? 21:27:44 heycam: no, we use it internally 21:28:14 krit: it might be good to do this together with the matrix4x4 proposal 21:28:24 heycam: status of matrix4x4? 21:28:34 krit: no one is wokring on it at the moment 21:29:00 heycam: if we had a transformBound function, would it be getBBoxOf? 21:29:21 s/it be/it still be necessary/ 21:29:43 heycam: if we had a transformBound function, would it still be necessary to havegetBBoxOf? 21:29:52 s/havegetBBoxOf/have getBBoxOf/ 21:30:18 heycam: you could do getCTM of the target element, but like explicit methods 21:30:27 heycam: or current element 21:31:02 heycam: or get both transforms and calculate the transformation between the two CTMs 21:31:04 you'd probably use the getTransformToElement function (in svg 1.1) 21:31:05 http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG11/types.html#__svg__SVGLocatable__getTransformToElement 21:31:43 ed: you would use getTransformToElement function 21:31:59 heycam: I thought in addition to this function 21:32:50 heycam: or as alternative getBBoxIn 21:33:02 heycam: might be more existing with current bbox system 21:33:21 cabanier: getBBoxOf might be more useful 21:34:05 krit: I am happy with getBBoxX, but wouldn't go further 21:35:09 birtles: document stuff makes any sense to support as iframe 21:35:49 I wonder if it makes sense to be able to use the coordinate space of elements in a seamless iframe 21:36:10 heycam: you might be right 21:36:24 heycam: there is a lot of things that doesn't make sense in multiple documents 21:36:36 heycam: that is a general issue that we solve once we come to it 21:36:56 heycam: or SVG fragments into an HTML document 21:37:03 heycam: you can define sth that works 21:38:14 heycam: bounding box has the defintion that it does not include the transformation, maybe a different name? 21:38:20 krit: bounding box has the defintion that it does not include the transformation, maybe a different name? 21:38:29 heycam: well, it still makes sense 21:38:50 heycam: if you call getBBox on the parent, it still takes the transformation of children into account 21:39:01 heycam: so it does not always ignore transforms 21:39:11 krit: you are right 21:41:59 resolution: Add getBBoxOf to SVGLocatable interface 21:43:59 heycam: should i come up with a proposal for transformBound? 21:44:17 krit: I think it should be part of a matrix4x4 21:44:25 birtles: it doesn't matter to much 21:44:34 birtles: it can move later anyway 21:45:11 ISSUE: Consider having a transformBounds method either on SVGMatrix or CSSMatrix4x4 21:45:11 Created ISSUE-2445 - Consider having a transformBounds method either on SVGMatrix or CSSMatrix4x4 ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2445/edit . 21:46:42 heycam: we can put it on SVGMatrix and make an inheritance hierachy and put the stuff into a new matrix proposal 21:47:01 heycam: SVGMatrix would inherit from the new definiton 21:47:24 action: krit will talk to Dean Jackson how to continue with matrix4x4 proposal 21:47:24 Sorry, couldn't find krit. You can review and register nicknames at . 21:47:34 action: Dirk will talk to Dean Jackson how to continue with matrix4x4 proposal 21:47:35 Created ACTION-3389 - Will talk to Dean Jackson how to continue with matrix4x4 proposal [on Dirk Schulze - due 2012-10-11]. 21:49:02 heycam: the transformation proposal 21:49:34 krit: I would like to add bug reports and try to address some of these in the next level of transforms 21:49:38 krit: CSS Transforms 21:49:47 heycam: I am no so sure about the shorthands 21:50:22 heycam: I am no so sure about the short-hands 21:50:33 heycam: I am no so sure about the shortands 21:51:11 krit: I would suggest to discuss it on the FX TF 21:51:27 heycam: yeah, just think that shorthand syntax does not fit very well to CSS Transforms 21:51:49 heycam: We know about the API issues and should come up with a proposal 21:51:58 krit: We still wait for CSSOM 21:52:21 https://svgwg.org/svg2-draft/coords.html#InterfaceSVGTransformList 21:52:53 see the getter and setter on there 21:54:03 heycam: added setter and getter to SVGTransformList so you can do transform[2] and get the second entry of the list 21:55:47 heycam: transform[2, newItem] 21:57:24 transform[2] = newItem 21:58:06 krit: ah, functionality great, the defiintion in the IDL seems strange 21:59:16 richardschwerdtfe has left #svg 21:59:25 richardschwerdtfe has joined #svg 21:59:45 krit: method isPointInside 21:59:58 https://svgwg.org/svg2-draft/types.html#InterfaceSVGGeometryElement 22:00:04 heycam: I wonder if isPointInFill handles it already 22:00:57 cabanier: does isPointInFill also work on group elements? 22:01:13 heycam: no, it is stock to SVGGeomentryElement 22:02:46 krit: getElementsByPoint gives you all elements under a certain point, right? 22:02:49 http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG11/struct.html#__svg__SVGSVGElement__getIntersectionList 22:03:22 heycam: I think getIntersectionList does that 22:03:43 -Tav 22:03:56 krit: I think there was a problem is that for getIntersectionList just gives you the elements under the current SVGSVGElement 22:03:57 -Rich 22:04:04 heycam: take the root SVG element 22:05:01 heycam: but me be good to have a function that just takes a point, not only a rect 22:05:43 heycam: do we want to allow it on any element and not just SVGSVGElement? 22:05:50 krit: you have a reference element 22:06:07 heycam: right, but you might expect to put it directly on the g 22:06:52 heycam: you don't want to transform your point to the CTM of the element that you are interested in 22:07:04 heycam: I think would be nice to have it on the element itself 22:07:31 krit: does it mean that the point also needs to be in the CTM of the current element? 22:07:34 heycam: yes 22:07:50 krit: and what about the intersectionlist? 22:08:16 heycam: well I guess you already have your point in this CTM 22:08:47 heycam: can we have a isPointInElement like Dmitry suggests beside isPointInFill and isPointInStroke 22:09:09 isPointInElement 22:09:18 have that on any SVGLocatable 22:10:49 krit: does not tell if it is on bbox or visible par 22:10:50 t 22:10:55 we do have pointer-events="boundingbox" 22:10:58 heycam: it depends on pointer events 22:11:10 krit: but you might want it independet of this property 22:11:11 (well, at least it's in tiny 1.2) 22:12:14 krit: I still think you might want to have this functoin independent of the current setting in pointer events 22:12:50 heycam: or we have an extra argument that takes a pointer-event value 22:13:06 isPointInElement(mySVGPoint, "boundingBox") 22:13:06 heycam: and can override the settings of the element, just for this method 22:13:10 isPointInElement(mySVGPoint, "all") 22:13:26 heycam: this argument would be optional 22:15:56 ed: I think I prefer what you suggested earlier 22:16:32 ed: I don't want to inherit the pointer event to the last child 22:17:18 s/I don't want/I don't know if it's a good idea 22:18:01 ed: I would like to see more detailed proposal even if I like to have this functionality 22:18:48 action: Cameron to come up with a proposal for isPointInElement and pointer events 22:18:48 Created ACTION-3390 - Come up with a proposal for isPointInElement and pointer events [on Cameron McCormack - due 2012-10-11]. 22:19:15 heycam: getElementsByPoint seems to be interessting 22:19:31 heycam: since you often don't want to have a rectangle 22:21:28 -birtles 22:21:49 action: Cameron Will also investigate in getElementsByPoint 22:21:50 Created ACTION-3391 - Will also investigate in getElementsByPoint [on Cameron McCormack - due 2012-10-11]. 22:22:40 krit: maybe we should discuss the other methods on the mailing list 22:22:42 heycam: maybe 22:25:09 action: Dirk will start discussion to other proposed methods 22:25:09 Created ACTION-3392 - Will start discussion to other proposed methods [on Dirk Schulze - due 2012-10-11]. 22:26:23 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2012JulSep/0214.html 22:27:15 topic: SVG2 22:27:21 SVG2!!!!!! 22:30:05 heycam: keep it SVG 2 but allow SVG2 as well outside the spec 22:30:54 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/10/04-svg-minutes.html heycam 22:32:33 -cabanier 22:32:34 -heycam 22:32:35 -ed 22:32:37 -krit 22:32:39 GA_SVGWG(SVG1)5:00PM has ended 22:32:39 Attendees were birtles, [IPcaller], heycam, cabanier, krit, ed, +33.9.53.77.aaaa, Tav, Rich 22:32:44 RRSAgent, make minutes 22:32:44 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/10/04-svg-minutes.html krit 22:40:45 krit1 has joined #svg 23:32:49 thorton has joined #svg 23:34:26 thorton has joined #svg