See also: IRC log
<fsasaki> raphael and guiseppe introducing themselves and NERD
raphael: descibes NERD platform developed with giuseppeerizzo
<raphael> NERD: nerd.eurecom.fr
sebastien: introduces himself as member of LOD2 project and developer of NIF and striving to make this compatible with ITS2.0
tadej: named entitiy dc call for concesus distirbuted
<raphael> NERD: a broker over numerous web APIs that perform Named Entity extraction, offers an ontology, an API and a Web UI for performing experiments
tadej: related to terminology but
not an extension due to its1.0 backward compatibility
... two use cases: type of named entity and which named entity being mentioned
... disambiguation uses similar pattern but is a separate use case, pointing to a specific meaning in a semantic network
<raphael> I would rather say that the disambiguation comes from a semantic network, or a knowledge base or a dataset (e.g. dbpedia) ... not an ontology since we are talking about instances
tadej: examples included for XML,
HTML, the latter with RDFa lite.
... microdata would be very similar
pablomendes: asks if term resource is confusing because of different useages in language resource and web resources community
<pablomendes> namespace or just "source"
tadej: could use 'named graph',
but perhaps a bit obscure. 'name space' better but conflicts
with xml namespace
... suggestion from floor 'source ref' may be better
<Zakim> raphael, you wanted to ask entityTypeResourceRef should be a URI ... not a string, right?
raphael: for disambiguate use
term 'knowledge base' rather than 'ontology'
... resource ref is mistakenly a string rather than URI
tadej: yes its an error
<pablomendes> global = stand off?
tadej: also explains ITS pattern of local and global tag methods
<pablomendes> local = inline?
fasaki: comparable to CSS and has equivalent of cascading rules
<fsasaki> some background here about "global" and "local" http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/WD-its20-20120626/#basic-concepts-selection
tadej: also there is inherntence, e.g. to specify dbpedia as source for all reference
<pablomendes> wondering if "knowledge base", "thesaurus", "ontology", "semantic network" couldn't all be subsumed by "vocabulary"
<pablomendes> since the type of knowledge representation is not important here. All those are essentially providers of URIs (vocabularies of globally unique identifers)
tadej: also 3rd example mentions usage of rdfa lite so be consistent with simple usage and standoff annotation
<raphael> yes pablo, but for types disambiguation, we should talk about vocabulary (ontology, thesaurus)
tadej: providing mapping between simple rdfa markup and ITS markup
<raphael> ... while for entities disambiguation, we should talk about datasets
<raphael> e.g. dbpedia has 2 parts, the OWL ontology (dbpedia-owl) and the dataset part (much larger)
<pablomendes> another name clash, I guess. the Linked Data community already took "vocabulary" as meaning schema
<raphael> pablo, we are talking about the same thing ... I use vocabulary as in the Linked Data community
tadej: answer pablo question, knowledge based is preferable to vocabulary
pablomendes: knowledge is probalby fine for this user community, or perhaps entity vocabulary
<Sebastian> identifiers ?
<raphael> identifiers farm :-)
tadej: identifiers could work, with example of instance, 'ontologies' etc
<fsasaki> link to terminology data category: http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/WD-its20-20120626/#terminology
tadej: responds to sebastian's question that neamed entity and disambiguation are separate from terminology in the affermative
Sebastian: is an issue since repositories such as wiktionary as like knowledge bases
tadej: disambiguation lets you
specify that type - entity or word
... as there are difference between inserting terminology link and entity link
<Zakim> raphael, you wanted to ask what is the added value of using the nerd type as value of the typeof attribute (in RDFa) over the native type provided by an extractor
raphael: rdfa example query about
different vocab are being used
... and which tool generated it
tadej: handled by separate data category
<fsasaki> see that data category, textanalysis annotation, listed here http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/Implementation_Commitments#Data_categories_2
<pablomendes> rephrase attempt: what are the relationships between LexicalEntry instances from Wiktionary and entities in DBpedia?
<pablomendes> perhaps lexvo:lexicalization?
Sebastien: responding to raphael,
that in wiktionary the separation between lexical entry and
concept is not alway clearly defined
... might be a tool artefact that cause confusion
Yves: title is not consistent - entity or name entity
tadej: an error, will fix this
Yves: example should be an entity pointer
<fsasaki> FYI, "pointer" attribute means: pointing to existing information in the document
tadej: will fix this
raphael: what is relation between its draft and NIF
tadej: there is some overlap and will be addressed in future, perhaps as a separate part or document
Sebastian: we are considering document some roundtrip scenario between ITS and NIF
fsasaki: some initial work undertaken
<pablomendes> wrt. its:disambigType = (word | entity) can't the distinction between word and entity be inferred from entityTypeRef? e.g. wiktionary:doc is a word, dbpedia:Dog is an entity
pablo: is disambig type redundant with entity type ref?
<Sebastian> no, it's meta-meta
tadej: this is possible, but unlcear how to maintain this mapping and how users can infer this this
<Sebastian> I really hav to learn how this speaker queue things work, where can I RTFM ?
tadej: disambiguation use cases
are often used in cases where text is short and lacks
... and computational lingusitic community draw a clear distinction ebtween lexical and conceptual meaning
<Zakim> raphael, you wanted to ask what are the implementations of "Internationalization Tag Set (ITS) Version 1.0" and the main diff between 1.0 and 2.0 ?
fsasaki: there is a seciton
describing difference, mainly html5 coverage and new daa
... its1.0 focussed more on classic i18n and l10n, its2.0 bring in more language technology integration
raphael; which tools implement its1.0
<fsasaki> okapi http://okapi.sourceforge.net/
yves: there is rainbow in okapi framework as well as translation tools such as trados
<fsasaki> trados translation tool
fsasaki: thanks everyone
<pablomendes> thank you
<scribe> ACTION: tadej to integrate this feedback [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/07/26-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-181 - Integrate this feedback [on Tadej Štajner - due 2012-08-02].
fsasaki: aim to finalise entity related meta-data.
<Yves_> another real-life implementation: http://itstool.org/
fsasaki: this link has lots of other requirements, but we aim to keep things simple as possible to hit w3c timescale including november feature freeze
<raphael> thanks all
fsasaki: any objections to publication - there are none
<scribe> ACTION: fsasaki to publish update to working draft next week [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/07/26-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-182 - Publish update to working draft next week [on Felix Sasaki - due 2012-08-02].
fsasaki: will plan another draft in latter half of august
fsaski: please keep implementation commmittments table uptodate
yves: will try very hard to implement disambiguation and named entity data category
fsasaki: tells tadej to continue working on word version and then when finished editors will integrate into ITS draft doc
fsasaki: any comment on parameter
for rule and target points, are there further comments
... no disagreement
<fsasaki> scribe: fsasaki
yves: domain, inheritance
... the discussion with declan
... what is the outcome?
dave: it was about the fact that
in practice with statistical MT
... some domains will be more important than others
... I was saying that the rules precedence is different than the domain precendence declan was talking about
... in statistical MT, you have sometimes domain precedence
yves: my question was about the domain precedence attribute
felix: yves is asking about the impliciation for implementing domain
dave: do we want to put this as a
new optional attribute, e.g. these are the ones that represent
the primary domain
... it is another optional attribute, need to get declan's feedback what's best
... in practice it will not be a definite instruction, not on the side of MT providers
... it is a hint, not a mechanical choice
yves: looking at the example of
... usage a) and b)
... you have a domain precedence attribute and criminal law and medical
... you have a domain poitner that says where to get the information
... the precedence is in the rule
... but how do you know which value to use
... it is not listed in the domain
... so what is the relationship
... do we need a domain precedence pointer
dave: not sure we really need
... need feedback from declan
... a separate MT provider may do other decisions
... a company like adobe might use it
... section doing the content, versus the one for MT training
... looked whether it is actually needed - it's a borderline use case
yves: seems to be a border case
dave: I agree
<scribe> ACTION: dave6 to contact declan and thomas about domain new attribute proposal [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/07/26-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - dave6
<scribe> ACTION: felix to integrate parameters for rules and target pointer into the spec [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/07/26-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action04]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-183 - Integrate parameters for rules and target pointer into the spec [on Felix Sasaki - due 2012-08-02].
dave: we are adding more content
... we end up putting in descriptions of standoff markup that we are pointing to
... are we happy to put that in the document?
<daveL> scribe: daveL
fsasaki: responding to query on non normative standoff markup exmaples - we should definitely collect this and then decide how best ot present this
fsasaki: next year we have more
opportunity for separate best practice best practices as in
... and can take other things into account, such as use of meta data in more complex workflow scneairo
<Zakim> omstefanov, you wanted to discuss materials above and in additions to ITS 2.0
omstefanov: many other fields include commentaries on normative or legal content, including exmaples and implementation quesitons etc
<fsasaki> ACTION: felix to prepare a place for BP material [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/07/26-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action05]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-184 - Prepare a place for BP material [on Felix Sasaki - due 2012-08-02].
<Zakim> Des, you wanted to discuss agenda for prague f2f
<Jirka> Logistics page is at http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/PragueSep2012
<fsasaki> ACTION: felix to prepare agenda draft for prague [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/07/26-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action06]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-185 - Prepare agenda draft for prague [on Felix Sasaki - due 2012-08-02].
<omstefanov> Nevertheless, I want to make one more pitch to use the more globally understood term, "Commentaries on ..." rather than "Best Practices" which, even if what you says applies, Felix, usually is understood in a more restricted sense.