- See the Attendees list.
- Futomi Hatano, Kaz Ashimura
- chaals, naomi, Alan, MikeSmith
Workshop Day 1 - Thursday, June 14th
Welcome and Scene Setting
- Futomi Hatano & Kaz Ashimura
- Charles McCathieNevile
Brief introduction from the co-Chairs, Futomi Hatano (Newphoria) & Kaz Ashimura (W3C) [Slides]
Kaz: W3C has been extending the web -
from desktop to mobile to tv... and the challenge now is digital
... This workshop is to gather use cases and requirements.
Welcome greeting — Noritaka Uji (NTT)
Mr Noritaka Uji, NTT
NU: Thank you and welcome.
... The 3/11 earthquake severely impacted Japanese communications infrastructure.
... We are recovering - thank you for support. During the disaster people used the internet in many ways to communicate important information.
... Outdoor and indoor signage also played an important role as a medium.
... NTT is a number one information carrier, with a wide range of business areas.
... The ICT market is changing, with paradigm shifts including convergence and globalisation
NU: Web technology is a major force,
that will open new markets in the future
... I look forward to the proposals and lively discussions over the next two days.
Expectations to this Web based Signage Workshop from the viewpoint of W3C Keio — Masao Isshiki (W3C)
Mr Masao Isshiki, W3C
MI: Good Morning, glad that this
workshop is here, after two years of thinking about how to bring
together new devices and the Web.
... W3C offers a place where all the stakeholders on the Web can come together.
... Keio University is a university. But we are also working to bring new voices and new technology to the discussion of the Web.
Expectations to this Web based Signage Workshop from the viewpoint of W3C — Jeff Jaffe (W3C) [ Slides ]
Mr Jeff Jaffe, W3C
JJ: I have great expectations
... I'd like to thank our sponsors, Digital Signage Corporation and Uji-san from NTT
... Uji-san talked about the 3/11 earthquake. Which relates to this workshop.
... We were scheduled to have a meeting in late March 2011 to start work in this area. But we had to postpone for higher-priority reconstruction.
... Now they are linked in history, but also in the problem domain, as Uji-san noted in his introduction.
... W3C is dedicated to bringing the web to its full potential.
... The current generation of technology in digital multimedia means the next generation of the web will impact every industry, just as the web has already done once.
... We bring our perspective of how the new technologies we develop impact industries, and this workshop will explore the impact on digital signage. I'd like to share some of the things I have imagined might happen.
... But first an advertisement. W3C (with HQ at MIT) was recently voted the single most important thing to come out of MIT in its 150 year history.
... So, what is signage? You already know.
... It is everywhere.
... Today's signage is customised, individual. The opportunities in the future I divide into three aspects: Display, Information and Audience.
... The divergence in displays is enormous. (Thanks to japanese industry for making much of this possible)
... Billboards used to be custom created, but today we have a repository of information - the web.
... So the vision: imagine being able to put anything on any sign anywhere.
... different displays are very different, but imagine if we could do that. It is within our grasp - the components exist, but we need standardised procedures and ways to connect the components.
... We need to understand what the missing pieces are, and define the standards.
... Making Working Groups before we know what they are going to do is a bad idea - we first need to understand the requirements. We may never have a "Signage" working group - it depends on whether we need a specific one, or to include the requirements for signage in HTML and CSS and other existing working groups.
... I am pleased to see the diversity of people here - commerce, technology, government, emergency services - there are many different stakeholders
... I would also like to thank Ishii-san who has been working on this.
The current activity and situation of Digital Signage Consortium in Japan — Ichiya Nakamura (Digital Signage Consortium)
Ichiya: good morning
... president of Digital Signage of Japan
... used to work for MIC for 15 years
... and still working as an adviser
... and started as a professor
... and now work for Keio University
... I was a rock musician of Shonen Knife
... now the industry has over 100 companies
... various industries to the digital signage
... software, advertisement, etc.
... it' growing up globally
... I have seen 15 countries in the world in terms of digital signage
... (Metro in Oslo)
... as Digital Signage Consortium
... gotten a lot of questions
... difinition is other than PC, TV and mobile
... all of them will be merged into one media
... digital signage is recognized big media in Seoul and Paris
... mid sized signage in Rome, Osaka
Ichiya: small sized one in
supermarket in Beijing
... seoul, LasVegas, Copenhagen...
... Moscow, fish store in Bilbao, real estate agency in France, bus in Rome
... New York, Taipei
Ichiya: Digital Signage is public
service and non-commercial one, too
... weather information, bus schedule
... also arts in city
... Ropponngi, Copenhagen, Shanghai
... it paints cities walls
... also it's showed up in Church in Paris, Barcelona, Moscow
... biggest change of digital signage is becoming network area
... getting connected to fibers
... many displays networked by broadband Internet work as a system in cities
... WWW has all cities all over the world
... roppongi system in Roppongi was the first one in the world
... TV is indoor push media, PC i pull media
... Outdoor push one would be digital signage
... even TV recently
... big and small, screen + outdor, commercial, standard..
... TV, PC, mobile phone multiscreen would go to signage
... broadcasting frequency would be used IP @@
... in addition content business
... social network business
... three components of media shifting to next stage at the same time
... big display shows by smartphone
... wall screen with small screens in one display
... thru optic fiber network for houses as a clock, photoflame and various information from Internet
... Home signage planned by broadcasters
... emergency information on the frequency on Internet
... telecom circuit and broadcasting
... social services to public
... Japanese prime mister office started Twitter just after the disaster
... Digital Signage 2.0 is comin
... Public information is essential one for citizens
... how to provide information
... share information on traffic, electricity and so on
... local government also started signage
...Digital Signage is moving into offices
... It will help share info between office mates
... Interactive touch pads giving messages in cities
... digital signage is evolving with may different things.
... You can order sushi, play arcade games, slot machines
... How aout making bathroom digital signage, possibilities are everywhere
... Digital Signage is here for 3 days. Last year 130K people came to the event.
... You can find amy connected signage at the show.
... Signage at a funeral
... Some is big, some is small, some are one way, others are interactive
... Many are stand-alone, some have 10 displays, some networks have 100's of displays
... I hope we can work together. Everything should be connected.
... Thank you very much.
Examples of Digital Signage Developments by JR East — Kyoji Oda (East Japan Marketing & Communications, Inc.)
Kaz: Next speaker is Kyoji Oda from East Japan Railway company
Kyoji: I'd like to introduce EJR, the
largest railway in the world
... It covers Tokyo metro and eastern part of main island
... Every day 7M passangers use JR East
... High potential for advertising media
Kyoji: [chart of numbers]
... Let me talk a little bit about Jeki
... It consists of three domians - Advertising Agency, Media Company and JR Group Company
... As an advertising agency we've developed digital signage. Let's look at main part of presentation.
... In teh station we have lots of signs and advertising in different media
... [Characteristics of Transit Advertisement chart]
... In Japan people rely heavily on railroads so they encounter advertising several times a day.
... These benefits are highly valued by clients. Historically it was printed media making it hard to target customers.
... [Chart Examples of Digital Signage Deployments]
... We call this Train Channels. It is the widest and most popular digital signage in Japan. It was introduced in 2002 and has spread since then.
... The number of screens is about 20K and this is one of the largest networks of Digital Signage in the world. We will expand this channel in the future.
[Slide: Exapmles of Digital Signage Deployments (Page 7)]
[reviews revenue numbers]
Kyoji: In the year 2008 we had a
severe slowdown but the Trian Channel had steady growth.
... This proves the value of Digital Signae increases with size of network.
... One area of success is ads as well as short programs, etc.
... Each program varies, some as short as 6 seconds and easy to understand by captioning.
Kyoji: This shows what we've done
for J AD Vision. It's been in place since 2008.
... big screens embedded in columns. We have 276 screens in 34 Stations.
... The most major case is at Shinagawa Station (44 units)
... This is highly valued by clients and is visited by many.
... Sales slide showing increase as number of screens increase
... Slight decline in sales occurred due to earthquake
... We sell some slots Digital Signage in other areas like Nagoya and Osaka
[Challnegnes for the Future slide]
Introductory talk on the basic policy of W3C's standardization and the workshop construction — Kaz Ashimura (W3C) [Slides]
Next Speaker: Kaz Ashimura
[Working Group Litefime chart]
[talks about flow of input through W3C lifecycle]
[W3C Recommendation Track chart]
[That's why this workshop has the following construction]
Kaz reviews overall agenda and why
[During Next Steps (Session 7) slide]
Session 1: Use Cases and Requirements 1 — Signs and passers-by
- Charles McCathieNevile
- Kaz Ashimura
- Interactive Signage
- Networked/Connected devices
- Multi-screen scenarios
- Architecture proposal
charles: panelists, please come to your seats
Manyoung Cho (Future Web Technology)
manyoung: used to work for
... started my own company, Future Web Technology
... 3 domains: HTML, HbbTV and Train business
... Solution business
... using HTML5
Yasuji Eguchi (DSC)
yasuji: standing director of
... happy to see you
... interested digital devices, smartphones, tablets, ...
yasuji: steering committee is
... will bring you to the DSJ tour
Shigeo Okamoto (MIC)
shigeo: from MIC, Japan
... tx, W3C and NTT
... PC for preparation
... we're a ministory dedicated for standardization
... standardization is important for industry
... to expand market
... also important for users to maintain interoperability
... hope Web-based digital signage would create a new industry area
... started by the initiative of Japanese stakeholders
... and today there are stakeholders from all over the world
... the discussion today and tomorrow will be surely active
Manabu Tsunori (Intel)
manabu: tx for inviting me to this
... let me start
... slide1: Re-defining Digital Signage
... in intelligent systems era
... Manabu Tsunori from Intel
... What Intel is doing in Japan?
... a semiconductor company working for 40 years
... 100,000 employees
... 500 employees in Japan
... sales and marketing
... supplying perspective
... Japan is very important
... slide2: Intel vision
... slide3: Inteligent System Era
... lots of devices, e.g., sensors, are becoming intelligent
... 1 trillion USD business opportunities
... need to combine data with intelligence
... slide4: Evolution of the connected devices
... once it get connected, we can see some insight/analysis
... devices become intelligent
... imagine traffic in cities
... having sensors and cameras
... should be connected in more intelligent manners
... 3 keywords: intelligent, connected and transforming
... vending machines
... how can vending machines achieve those three points?
... just multi-function is not enough
... it should "computes"
... there are lots of vending machines in train stations which has cameras
... recognize features of users
... we obtained silver award at Digital Sinage Award
... demo video
... of Intelligent Vdnding Concept
... from TV program of TV Tokyo
... it's located in Shanghai
... disaster information
... providing public information is another key
... Interactive Brand Experience
... touch screen and connection
... (very big (or rather wide) display)
... Worldwide market
... Japan market
... become triple
... accererate value-added business is the key
... digital signage is not a "display device" but a "computing device"
... issues of retail devices
... Open Pluggable Specifications
... like the cassette of Nintendo
... shows actual device
... can replace parts (or casette)
... collaboratio within the ecosystem
... brand, agency, service providers, system integraters, location owners
... digital signage is "computing device"
manabu: standrdization enhances the
... would like to accelerate standardization
<stakagi> What do you think about the rise of open hardwares such as arduino?
Toru Kobayashi (NTT Labs.) Slides ]
toru: Browser? or Agent!
... Toru Kobayashi from NTT Labs.
... W3C AC Rep.
... will talk about interactive signage
... the current work of our research institute
... slide1: Personal Information Style
... completely opposite to so-called universal design
... IT should adopt to people
... people have different IT retelacy(?)
... slide2: Approach for realizing Persongal Information Style
... user can use tablets/PCs
... the idea is very simple
... just insert some "Wedge" between users and Media
... slide3: Personal Information Style Application Architecture
... one of the keys is information filtering
... the second is user interface
... bothe functionalities are combined
... information style engine process the information
... slide4: Use Cases:
... slide5: Shopping Situation
... what if somebody wants blue jeans
... (video demo)
... took this video yesterday at DSJ venue
... the user uses his/her own tablet
... and all the people see the same image/video on the big display
... please see the system at the venue in the evening
... slide5: Disaster Situation
... what if there is some disaster at Shinagawa station?
... some person wants to know diagram
... some might want to know about the location of restroom
... what if the signage system recognize user's need?
... right information would be delivered to right person
... sometimes networks might be down
... information which each user has could be also shared
... slide6: Shinjuku ALTA Situation
... very famous signage
... young couple met with each other five years ago
... the guy put some video into his mobile
... actually, that's his proposing her
... that could be displayed on the big display of ALTA
... and he can ask her for her response
... slide7: Common Features
... not only one-way signage but also interactive one
... slide8: Dreams
... not just a browser but Web Platform
... or Intelligent Web Platform
... slide9: Standardization Impacts
... key issues: device discovery, device relationship and requirement tag definition
... for intelligent Web Platform
... and maybe something like "Agent"
charles: we Opra make browser and
these days Web Platform :)
... you can use same standard on not only pc but mobile and signage
... the goal of this session is "What are the requirements?"
... protocols for network connection is out of scope of W3C
futomi: question for
... you said "Web Platform"
... what kind of Platform?
... Boot2Gecko, etc.?
... I have same image
... easy to develop Web apps
charles: couple of things I took
... ability of interoperability for users
... e.g., Opera has Opera Unite
... how much do we have now?
... how much do we need to develop?
toru: discussing discovery with
... a possibility is WebIntents
... this concept could be used for discovered devices as well
toru: maybe Aizu-san and/or Komatsu-san will give talks
shigeo: question for
... we need to deal with privacy and personal information
... we can develop that kind of system using existing technologies?
... or do we need anything else?
toru: privacy is very important
... need to be careful
... currently, don't have any idea about how to handle it, though
... (that's why we're here :)
manyoung: using NFC?
... W3C is starting work on NFC
... e.g., for disaster situation
... Japanese mobiles have NFC chips
... that is one of the possible solutions to use mobiles
charles: privacy question is big
<MikeSmith> chaals, kaz, we should talk about the proposed NFC work during the same session where we talk about the WebApps WG and DAP and System APIs WG
charles: nice function
[ MikeSmith, good point. Do you want to talk about that? ]
charels: some of the problems are political
charles: what should be the
... preserving privacy
manabu: security perspective
... cameras on the street in intelligent vending machines
... they just capture image
... we can easily imagine those digital signage systems are hacked
... 600,000 malwares are generated everyday
... it's like a pc but not an actual pc
... the capability is limited
... need to re-form all the virus protection
... for secure devices
... if we seriously think about that
... esp., in disaster situation
... how to managed disposed devices?
... let's think about remote management
... called "vPro" (?)
... in disaster case, the government will talk with every signage system
... the identity of users
charles: there are controls on what
could be published
... parental control
... identifying indivuals in our organization
johan: from Ericsson
... if there is interference in the video, nobody can recognize what the user says
... we can guarantee that using mobile network
... you need that kind of certification
... this brings network into the picture
... some work on what we'll talk tomorrow during the Standards session
... interact with the other functions
charles: 5 mins left
... personalized information style, intelligent systems
... there was some work on handling phisycal devices
... if I want to assign devices for a signage system
... in the disaster scenario, 50 million devices
... you don't want QA engineers to handle them
... some work on accessibility
... in the accessibility case, very strong need
... they have difficulty if they don't have right king of connection or information
... we can work with mobile or tablet
... don't need to be the same renderer as pc
... we should consider constraints and capability
... comments from panelists?
toru: information itself and
... dema (demagogue)
... who would check the correctness of all the information?
... Kaz is working for Multimodal, that is also useful for the use cases
manabu: how to prove the intented content is being played
shigeo: wrt Toru's comment, not sure
if we could check all the info...
... should leave users to make decision
... "contol" may be controversial
charles: we need to track provenance
... defensive, protective technology
... "Oh, Yeah" button for approval?
... what is trustworthy?
... we can understand where the information came from
... digital signage is becoming a more trustworthy device
... we can talk about that later today or tomorrow
Click to enlarge the above images.
Session 2: State of the Art Digital Signage Services
- John C. Wang
- Mike Smith
- What is deployed and working
- What is working in the research labs but hasn't made it to the street
Hiroyuki Wakabayashi (Panasonic)
first is Hiroyuki Wakabashi from Panasonic
Hiroyuki: based on native application
running on client
... currently not Web-based
... looking into what is required for browser-based systems
... first see if it's even possible
... and then what impact will it have?
Hideaki Kosaka (Mitsubishi)
next Hideaki Kosaka from Mitsubishi
Kosaka-san: we are making ballpark
displays, horse-race displays
... big systems for public display
... but we are finding that people want to interact with these big systems
... and we are looking at how to make it possible for people to do that, say, through their smartphones
Samuel Gallacier (INNES) [ Slides ]
Samuel Gallachier from Innes
[samuel showing presentation slides]
<kaz> [ latest agenda: http://www.w3.org/2012/06/signage/agenda.html ]
Samuel: Innes is the main player in
digital signage in France
... 75% of the "point of wait" market (e.g., museums)
... makes richmedia players
... sell directly to system integrators
<MikeSmith> [Samuel showing slide of "open media player" architecture, with browser engine at the core
[slide "Player language proposal"]
SG: Easy to use, XML language
... ideal candidate for interoperability
SG: does what we need for layout and placement, transition etc.
[slide: example SMIL+CSS3]
SG: added a state for when media is playing.
[slide: SMIL elements]
SG: Think what they have is not enough - we want to have support for APIs like HTML5, control elements by type, ...
SG: have wallclock in SMIL but want the extra power of iCal e.g. waking up a device/app at a given time
SG: can use with device APIs.
[slide: Example - SMIL+iCalendar]
SG: starting things on calendar events.
[slide: SMIL + scripts]
SG: had to add JS support to SMIL
for things we couldn't do with declarative model
... in the head, and in the timeline
[slide: State Chart, Data Model]
SG: state support is insufficient
[slide: device API]
SG: Device APIs are very important
<MikeSmith> kaz, chaals, I suggest you consider to take questions and comments after this presentation
[scribe notes: using BONDI / W3C device APIs]
<MikeSmith> because I have some questions and comments :)
[Demo - video and flash and other things mixed together]
SG: modified style with script, mixed things in layout
[slide: popai digital signature]
[slide: Server player API]
[slide: unambiguous media definition]
SG: proof of play is very important
[slide: player management]
SG: prefer WS-management - available in HTTP / HTTPS, easy to integrate
<MikeSmith> chaals, do you want to talk about SMIL or should I?
Igarashi-san Sony: SMIL is good for synch. Cannot be substituted with canvas?
SG: Are you thinking to improve canvas to realise similar capability?
SG: Advantage of SMIL is that it is
declarative and simple for authoring. This is critical.
... when you need to script everything it is difficult for authoring and understanding what will happen.
Igarashi-san: so it is more friendly for the creator?
JW: Yes, the declarative nature is easier.
SG: SMIL isn't supported in
browsers except as SVG. Canvas doesn't have a timing model at
... are you proposing an open standard for media player, do you expect browsers will implement it?
SG: SMIL is implemented with SVG. We
are based on this implementation. We implemented timing containers,
and some implicit rules. Not a lot of work to do.
... the hard part is already done.
MS: You're adding to the browser support for SMIL?
SG: There is a little custom code. But mostly based on Gecko, using the native SVG support.
MS: Are there features that you expect to get implemented in browsers (which haven't been yet)?
<stakagi> Is it open source?
SG: We added some stae in CSS3. What we need mostly exists already, just have to connect it.
jun: There is CSS and SVG animation. Problem is the two animation features are not based on the same model. It is difficult to support both.
SG: SVG WG working on combination
to unify the model.
... keep working on this area as a good way to describe animation.
MS: You said advantage that it has a
declarative syntax. Most Web developers don't consider that an
advantage. But most developers don't use it, because they are more
... except CSS, which they really do use. Browser vendors are trying to implement things with CSS animation - look at that
charles: there are two cultures
... much easier to do QA if it's declarative
... Canvas and SVG do almost same things
<MikeSmith> I should correct myself a bit and say that for making animations and interactive contact, many or most developers prefer to have really good tools that abstract away the syntax entirely
charles: so we probably have to keep the two models in parallel - and make sure they are in parallel
Hiroshi Yoshida (Hakuhodo)
Yoshida-san: Hakuhodo, media
... established 8 years ago, as part of a 116 year old history.
[slides: presenting Hakuhodo (old and large)]
[Mike, you mean that many are using tools on top of the different syntax?]
<MikeSmith> [chaals, yeah -- a GUI that doesn't need to expose the syntax -- WYSIWYG, like Flash development tools]
[(again, there is the culture of libraries - zillions of jQuery/dojo/etc users) - and the culture of code management that sits on declarative code where they can. Often, but not always, the larger-scale deployments use the declarative model, the zillions of smaller groups use code. I don't see that changing - the ecosystem has two different approaches still)]
HY: Mass media consumption is declining slowly, internet consumption is growing
[slides: detailed charts on usage patterns]
<MikeSmith> [chaals, yeah, agreed. I guess I tend to think about the views of individual developers more because that's who I talk to more (compared to the kind of large shops you described]
<scribe> ... new research results available today [see slides for URI]
HY: PC internet decreasing, mobil
growing - overall internet growth
... smartphone penetration - varies by region. ~30% in Tokyo, ~15% in regions.
... also varies a lot by age and gender.
[mike: yeah - as a browser we need to support small-scale developers, and enterprise. It seems there isn't a big convergence in how they think - probably because the tasks are different enough that different paradigms are more efficient for the different requirements]
HY: we are handling driving school signage
[video: smart devices]
HY: Advertising was passive
consumption (watch, listen, ...)
... on smart devices it is interactive - click, ...
... on signage includes location, talking, and more interaction.
Craig Makino (PDC)
Craig Makino: Panasonic Digital Communications
CM: Been in Digital signs for
13years. We manage content for 8000 screens, providing content
management and system integration service solutions.
... A lot of digital signage are native apps on the client. The Web is going to provide flexibility. The key is to understand market needs and why people use native apps.
... the market *perceives* HTML5 as content, not a platform.
... we need to ensure we can support the services the market needs
Takeshi Enokibori (Hitachi)
[technical issue - we'll put John on first]
John C. Wang (IAdea) [ Slides ]
John Wang, IAdea
JW: we have been using W3C standards
in signage for quite a while.
... 100% focus on digital signage. make devices. Large media-player maker
... based 100% on open standards: SMIL, HTML5, RSS, ...
... lot of white-labeling business.
... involved in developing standards in POPAI and DSMA too.
... How do multiple servers collaborate to make one big image across different signs.
... Goal is to integrate booking systems like airlines do.
[chaals thinks about the spot-renting case Kobayashi-san talked about this morning]
JW: hands-on experience, then things
we want to see added.
... SMIL is one of the biggest for us.
... feels right for us,and the industry.
... would like SMIL to continue development.
... Timing is a fundamental for the industry.
... explain our usage and advocate SMIL on http://www.a-smil.org
... [example of SMIL]
... very easy to describe what we do in SMIL - can't make it so easily any other way.
JW: Solves the major problems we have
... it lets you synchronise multiple screens (although implementation right now is a different story :S )
... prefetch is critical. It is not acceptable to show a page until it is completely loaded.
[slide: To be desired]
JW: Right now we are using POPAI to
develop on top of SMIL.
... shuffle, random picking
<darth> @caals - care to elaborate on current smil implementation issues?
JW: scripting - but it can be added
as Innes showed
... SMIL is commonly deployed for digital signage
... we use Media RSS. Simple, people know it already.
... use XSLT to turn MediaRSS into SMIL
... HTML5 has great potential to replace flash as de facto standard for authoring interactive content
... examples http://www.iadea.com/html5
<stakagi> html5 is seldom supporting smil.
JW: restaurant example is HTML5-based, easy to update without going back to the designer
[stakagi as Samuel said, it supports a pile of it already via SVG]
JW: Believe HTML5 is ready for prime-time use
[stakagi if you rely on that inside HTML5 you can do the rest with polyfilling script, and you also have a script engine :)]
JW: Does a good job, easily.
... as a content format it is great - because you can also render it on almost any mobile device too
<stakagi> Incidentally, doesn't it spoil the advantage of decralative language?
[stakagi you can use a bit of script as a library to make it possible to interpret declarative language]
[... but there are times when script lets you do something new and amazing]
[... There is also Web Components in development in webapps group, designed to make it easier to extend declaratively]
<stakagi> Indeed. Thank you.
JW: We see HTML5 as content format.
Synchronisation shouldn't be in HTML5, SMIL should do that. And
then figure out how to mix them.
... we don't like the HTML+Time approach, would prefer SMIL as the scheduler and HTML5 as the format
... missing in a big way is the ability to do cache
CMN: Looked at appcache? It's terrible, but it is along the right lines
JW: Right - we need the function but
appcache ain't it.
... we are using widgets. But they are missing things too.
... appcache doesn't mix stored stuff and live content well. Widgets makes that tricky too
CMN: Can be done in widgets (implementation is another story)
JW: OK. Don't think appcache is
workable. Local storage can do that, for text-based content.
... problem is not having media files. Can hack through that with data URLs but it is ugly.
[CMN thinks about file API, blobs, and things that are being developed in webapps to do that]
JH: Wouldn't problems be solved by having a server in the sign?
JW: Yes, but how do you described
what needs to be loaded on the server? procedural language wouldn't
be very nice for that.
... file API is painful because it isn't declarative. You need to make your own filesystem application
JH: You could hide that behind the web server. A lot of the questions are about addressability ...
Ishigari-san: Simple solution and widely used solution are not the same. Most browser o not support SMIL. Can this be done using canvas/SVG?
JW: Think there is a possibility to
do it as a library on HTML5. We are doing it as plugin to browser,
so it runs natively.
... for synch you need a precise multi-thread model, and JS is lacking that.
MS: Lack of threading in JS - and
... lacking threading is a feature ;) (so JS developers don't have to deal with them)
... also, there is support for blobs in most browsers now - binary objects in JS.
... that might be a solution.
Kaz: SCXML might be a candidate for new-gen SMIL ...
Takeshi Enokibori (Hitachi) [ Slides ]
TE: Talking about our expectations
for HTML5 in signage.
... Hitachi provides delivery and outsourcing operation
... managing > 10k connected displays
... customers are trending to smaller displays, frequent updates, simple operation/management
... Case: in-store displays, each one displays different things according to location, time of day, ...
... e.g. show different content for day/night/commuting time/...
... Case: traffic info for railroads. Flash-based, live data rendering.
... if it is free, display advertisements instead
... Case: sales promotion - small displays, frequent update by network, gives much better sales results.
... Want HTML5 to enable layout to work on different screens.
... and control multiple displays in different locations.
... (handling 50k - 100k different devices)
... not just using flash players.
Toru: Talked to 4square guys. They
are interested in HTML5, but still using native applications for
user experience of advertising.
... are there important pieces missing for good user experience?
<MikeSmith> chaals: in the browser world, a lot of things half-work because they are half-implemented
<MikeSmith> chaals: but as it matures, more interactivity gets push into HTML
<MikeSmith> ... I don't know that there's a lot missing [in the context of talking about shop that's using the Opera SDK for particular devices]
<stakagi> I think one of them is such as background apps. Though, it is likely to have a subject of a security.
kosaka: We are not ready to decide if we
cover everything by current technology or not. Advertising system
is push-based, web side is traditionally pull-based.
... We just start discussing how we connect the systems. Don't need to hurry in deciding if we have everything.
Kaz: Another approach might be distributed architecture - MMI architecture might help. Will talk about it tomorrow.
JW: Performance of browser can be an
... LInkedIn went through careful process to choose which features to use.
Igahashi: Interactivity is more important. Wonder if the current advertising system is connected to the network to provide more interactivity, or is it isolated and just transporting content
kosaka: Most systems have the capability, but often we are not doing this for privacy reasons.
igahashi: is bandwidth good enough?
kosaka: Still often using private network for distribution - not always enough bandwidth for real-time, but we are shipping in advance and storing data to be sure it will render.
HY: (Missed comment ;( )
Click to enlarge the above images.
Session 3: Digital Signage Japan Demo Tour
Everybody enjoyed the great demonstrations :)
See also Brief Summarization of Day 1 Discussion.
Workshop Day 1 ends
Workshop Day 2 - Friday, June 15th
Brief Summarization of Day 1 Discussion
- Kaz Ashimura
- J. Alan Bird
Kaz: First we talked about use cases
and some of the viewpoints included existing standards, security
issues, web intents, DNT
... During Session 2 we talked about functions needed for next generation web signage solutions
... what devices need to do
... and SMIL, CSS3, HTML5 and non-W3C standards
... there was discussion about the relationship between CANVAS and SMIL
... We'll talk about some of these later in the afternoon session.
... I think there were good points about possible solutions, there were 2 approaches discussed
... Descriptive vs. straight code
... Some physical installations include SXML.
... We then visited the DSJ Booths and saw many interesting things.
... Anything missing we should add?
John Wong: At the dinner yesterday I discussed with several members that perhaps today we should discuss the business interests so people see the value and don't feel they are being commoditized. I hope we have time for that topic today.
Kaz: Can we talk about that during
the next steps conversation? OK? Any other questions or
... I'd like to briefly talk about the very interesting demonstrations yesterday. I was impressed by Sharp's very big display with the touch abilities.
... I felt that was kind of Sci-Fi is. Maybe it's to much to have a huge touch device, maybe we should focus on more practical sized devices.
... During the Disaster Situation everyone was trying to contact people. Maybe a touch device could be used to help in that situation.
Futomi Hatano: I was impressed by Sharp's display as well. However, to deliver something like that you need hi-spec hardware.
FH: Next my surprising topic was
NTT's booth with TV program and data synchronized. Maybe we need to
look at such cases.
... Every booth was impressive for me. Thank you.
Manabu Tsunori: (Scribe missed the points)
Johan: I was surprised there was less 3D, that was all the rage last year. I'm wondering when we're going to have real 3D.
Kaz: I saw one booth with Augmented
Reality. I was wondering about our interest in that space. Anyone
have ideas about that?
... Thank you for the conversation.
Click to enlarge the above images.
Session 4: Use Cases and Requirements 2 — Signs and users contineud
What makes the web the right platform, what is still difficult, what does not yet have a good solution.
- Toru Kobayashi
- J. Alan Bird & Kaz Ashimura
- Interactive Signage
- Networked/Connected devices
- Privacy and user information
- Disaster scenarios/Emergency communications
- Architecture proposal
Toru: We have some introductions and a couple of presentations.
Tatsuya Igarashi (Sony)
Tatsuya Igarashi (Sony): We're interested in the Business Models and the integration done by Systems Integrators. I'm wondering how devices like smartphones and tablets integrate into Digital Signage.
Igarashi: One of our use cases is the
exchange of coupons. Just one example of targetted advertising. Big
display's are good for public display but each person has their own
... This might be good use case between signage and personal devices.
Junshiro Kanda (Mitsubishi)
Junshiro Kanda (Mitsubishi): I develop personal digital signage systems, the player for the display.
Junshiro: Under that is content
distribution system for digital signage.
... We don't use web based systems. I think it's interesting thought.
... I think I can get the point of web based signage from this workshop.
Takashi Koyano (NHK Enterprises)
Takashi Koyano (NHK): We've been doing this for four years and we opened a specific studio for this.
Takashi: It's really hard to make a
clean picture so we're working on this. Someone mentioned 4K and
for us that's nothing we have 8K displays.
... It's really like 3D. You can see lots of details.
Darth Vidar (SMART Communications)
Darth Vidar (Smart): We're the largest Telco in Philipines. We have other brands and we currently own 65 - 75% of the mobile market in the Philapines.
Darth: In our market prepaid is
king. Most people don't have monthly plans.
... They purchase cards from many places.
... Sometimes there is some selling things and you give them your number and they charge it to your phone.
... Our interest is that since we're the leading providers, we're interested in 3G coverage.
... We are looking at various OTT solutions.
... Traditional telco revenues are going down because of the internet.
... This is prompting us to look at other sources of revenue.
... We know the market isn't just our end consumers.
... We're looking at Digital Signage as a possible expansion.
... Maybe tie our SIMS to signs to drive revenue.
... We're partner with many others and have access to content so we're trying to see if we can build solutions to leverage those relationships.
... Right now we're the ones who are looking at the web, the standards and things like HTML5.
... Thank you.
Johan Hjelm (Ericsson) [ Slides ]
Johan (Ericsson): Why is Ericsson interested in digital signage. I think most of you know who we are, we've been around for a while.
Johan: We're no longer in the phone
business, we sold our share to Sony.
... We're moving our focus into the network.
... In the telcom world there is a lot of conversation around the machine to machine conversation. Used to focus on vending machines.
... While it's a huge market in Japan it's a very small profit margin.
... We would like people to use newer technology, but with a small bit of text there is no reason to do it. With what we saw yesterday they need better networks, but with 8K there will definitely be the need.
... The problem with bigger displays is the distribution to the endpoints.
... We talk about the networked society. Everything will have a network connection and need to communicate.
[What if there were public screens for public warnings slide]
Johan: There is one big problem with
loadspeakers. When you shut off the sound you hear nothing.
... Other problems exist depending on the environment. No quality control.
... If there is something complicated then you might not hear what they say.
... It's a special problem for people that are hearing impaired.
... You need graphic and oral warnings to address all citizens.
[Among 5 Worse Things in Megacities slide]
[Public Warning Systems Requirements from 3GPP]
[list of General requirements]
Johan: Issue of language in many countries. You have to transmit in multiple languages.
[Requirements on Message Content]
[does through points with slight commentary]
[Support of Warning Notification Providers slide]
Johan: Need to make sure you cancel message when issue has been resolved
Johan: There are requirements for anything participating in Public Warning - would include Digital Signage
[Better Displays Would Provide even Better Information slide]
Toshiyuki Okamoto (KDDI)
Toshiyuki Okamoto (KDDI): I work on Digital Signage for KDDI.
Toshiyuki: Use Case in event of Disaster
Toshiyuki Okamoto (KDDI): Example Device (Photo-U)
Toshiyuki: has 7-inch display
... works together with email service
... vertical -> holizontal:
... not only large size display but also personal display
... so the target is multi device, multi screen personal devices
... HTML5 as the unified format for various signage services
... Responsible Web:
... during the disaster situation, 3G network was not available
... but fixed-line was available
... optimizing layout on various devices is important (to share a specific format)
... large number of users access a specific signage device
... users can provide latest update, e.g., their location
... offline application technology is useful
... I'm excited with future possibility of the Web technology
... we have great panelists from various industries
... we NTT should have some comments :)
kawabata: currently japanese signage
systems are vertically separated
... hard trouble with shortage of electricity
... if we could the system horizontally, e.g., battery for electric power, it would be useful for disaster situation
tsunori: tx for interesting talks
<stakagi> http://www.w3.org/2011/web-apps-ws/papers/KDDI.htmlOffline Web Applications for Disaster Relief
tsunori: it could be out of scope but what about thinking about sound sinage
<stakagi> Position paper for Offline web app WG 11/2011
toru: accessibility is very important
kanda: we think sound is one big
... not only for blind people
... at station and in train, we provide sinage service for JR
... in the disaster situation or traffic problem, sound + visual information would be important
igarashi: using sound is a good
... digital signage systems usually have loud speakers
toru: the environment is usually very
... if the system could identify the situation/context, it might be able to use different approaches based on the situation
koyano: people want to switch to NHK,
a public channel, in the disaster situation
... broadcasting signal was the most trustworthy even in the 3.11 situation
... but NHK requires fee to see
... we're thinking about that seriously
<stakagi> Radio may be more useful than a television in many cases.
toru: Johan made some points on requirements
johan: 3GPP generated those requirements
[ if Koyano-san suggests collaboration between broadcasting and signage, I'd agree. ]
[ regarding the comment from Tsunori-san, we have VoiceXML and CCXML, etc. within W3C ;) ]
darth: not only visual but could be
... upload to devices
... the most reliable technology was rather lower technology than hi-tech
... during the flood situation, we didn't have any electricity, so couldn't watch TV
... so it depends on the type of disaster
... given the situation, the concept of device profile is important
... we have small devices and also large devices
... if we want to push information to devices
... there are variety of ways, 3G, fixed-line, etc.
Shigeo Okamoto (MIC): as the Government, I was interested and impressed
Shigeo: I don't have technology
background, but have some comments
... sound would be useful for some people
... but it wouldn't make much sense all the signage devices must have sound capability
... people who receive information diverse
... some people can read small characters
<jjkim> Yes, another perspective with the sound issue.
Shigeo: and some people might be able to read only vertically layouted text
<stakagi> That of the emergency supplies which have the greatest market share of the information-system field of present Japan as a fact is radio with the facility of the hand generator.
Shigeo: collaboration with personal devices would be better
<Gisung> We KAIST agree with. When disaster situation, people are very busy and flustered. If siganage provide information, people will be very crowd near the signage to get the information. So we think that it is required to provide information from signage to their personal device with considering their location. Then people don't have to gather near the signage, they just get information how to escape personally. The information might navigate people to safe space.
okamoto: some people may have to stay
there (where they're)
... we have to be careful about where they are, and timing
... right and trust
... is another point
... if there are interactive media, maybe each person would like to let their family know they're alive
<stakagi> I think that it is almost all the cases except a map information at the time of an disaster, and its radio is useful.
okamoto: but in that case, who should
... btw, are the 3GPP requirements implemented?
johan: for the first point
... Ericsson provides identification/verification mechanism for public signboard
... the question about 3GPP requiremnts
... they released 11
<stakagi> That is, in addition to Web and TV, Web and Radio may be a sensitive in the aspect of disaster relief.
johan: people are implementing
... the intention is from this year people will start implementations
toru: relationship between W3C and 3GPP?
kaz: there is liaison, and we could talk about this point as well
bill: GIS information, etc. are
... commercial mobile alliance
... FCC as well
johan: there was a group within W3C
takagi: comment on GIS
... KDDI have already submitted member submission on geo info for HTML5 to W3C
kensaku: also agree
... accessibility discussion will be done during next session
toru: comments from Stephan who lives in Europe?
stephan: natural disaster is not a
big issue in Germany as you mentioned
... not appropriate to compare...
<stakagi> Member Submission GIS&HTML5(SVG) http://www.w3.org/Submission/2011/04/
toru: if we talk about disaster, it
is encouraged all the stakeholders discuss the topic
... W3C should be the right place for that purpose
Click to enlarge the above images.
11:30 - 12:30 Session 5: Use Cases and Requirements 3 — Accessibility and Adaptive systems
Signs offering content such as 'for rent' signs; crowd-sourcing signs; signs for emergency use; "audible signs" (multimodal interaction); "Accessible Signage" such as Remote Infrared Audible Signage (RIAS) for print-reading disabilities; issues concerning privacy, etc.
- Bill Crandall & Kaz Ashimura
- J. Alan Bird
- Talking signs
Bill Crandall (SKI) [ Slides ]
<StephanSteglich> Bill Crandall on Survey of Accessible Signage
Bill Crandall: I'm going to talk about Accessibility for all but especially about those that are visually impaired.
Bill: It's a review of advances in
the signage industry and how things are advancing.
... Signs provide a menu of choices for travellers.
... We'll take a look at good examples of accessible signage.
... Maps can be used to help travellers. Used in home and office to help with trip planning.
... The basic cell phone apps give directions by landmarks.
... A Speaking signage system is gaining acceptance and I'll talk about it in more detail.
... A chain of activities is only as strong as the weakest link. The unplanned things can make it so a person doesn't attempt it again.
... Challanges are things like figuring out where to pay and how at the start of the trip.
... They need to find the proper place to board, multiple levels, correct side, etc.
... They need to make sure they are on the right vehicle and then when they get there how to successfully exit.
[Summary: The Trip Chain slide]
BC: Large trip map project is going
to move things ahead.
... Geographic Information is important.
... Standard thing like Google brings street names better but looses other important information.
[Parameters important for Low Vision Users of on-screen maps slide]
[review of map solution]
Bill: UC Santa Barbara project: Accessibility route for Mobile
<stakagi> In this case, SVG is likely to be considerably useful.
[talking signs hw slide]
["Cone" of Transmission]
[Mulitiple RIAS Transmitters slide]
[Cal Train Station Installation in San Francisco slide]
Bill: If it takes to much to learn
people won't use it. Has to be repeatable and easy to use.
... 300 transmitters throughout transit system in Seattle
[examples of RIAS samples]
<scribe> ...New Oslo Opera House has 84 talking signs
[samples of RIAS nodes in Opera House]
[RIAS in Japan Rail]
Bill: Moving toward point and click
environment. Your physical location has you drilled down deeply
into the information.
... Transmitter over door goes to infrared receiver that goes to bluetooth that goes to communication system and then info comes back via system
... We're working on radom access but this requires a level of natural level processing that has promise.
... For starters we start with limited context and vocabularies.
[Mitsubishi Precision RIAS Hands Free Receiver slide]
Bill: This is a genius idea because it doesn't obstruct the ear.
[sample from Italy]
[Photovoltaic Bus Signs]
[Text to speech examples]
[ANS standard for RIAS]
[ClickAndGo Audible Mapping slide]
[Application of Convergence slide]
[Smart Phone slide]
Bill: Most problems are a human
interaction problem. Input/Output management.
... [Chicago Lighthouse Audible and Tacticle Map slide]
[slides on application]
[Voice Audible Motion Detection slide]
["ADA" Light slide]
Bill: In the US they are regulating the location of these buttons.
[Visual Paging System slide]
[Current Issues being worked through slide]
['Take Home' Message slide]
[list of definitions of sign]
["Bottom Line" slide]
Kaz: Very impressive presentation. Any questions?
Johan: You mentioned that the warning lights that could be updated with a microphone. In the case of your example how hard is it for the owner to update the message.
BC: A wiki would be a good example of
how to update messages like that.
... If you make it simple you don't know if people would do it.
... It's a matter of the value they place in doing this.
... If he was near a location with a lot of blind traffic he would be more motivated.
... Prototype was based on a wiki but we updated it which caused problems.
Kaz: I would like to ask some points.
I think Accessible Signage is one of the key topics.
... Maximum modalities is a key question. Also we need to look at personal devices like Smart Pens.
... Would an Accessible Wiki be useful?
Futomi: I'm very interested in infrared because it is very useful to everyone.
Bill: In Japan many personal
devices have infrared receiver and transmitters.
... But that's not the case in other places.
BC: Near infrared is not impacted by
heat like far infrared is.
... We've gone through the trouble to design out the problem.
... This receiver works very hard to reduce the current and reduce the problem.
Robert Pearson (AMI) [ Slides ]
Kaz: Next speaker is Robert Pearson from AMI, let's try Skype connection
[gets Skype going]
Robert Pearson: Thank you for having us participate. I hope everything is going well there today. I'm calling from Toronto, Canada.
Robert: I want to talk about what we
do at AMI and things you could consider as you finish your workshop
... I'm going to discuss AMI then draw some context to how that might interact with Digital Signage.
[Accessible Media Inc. (AMI) Slide]
Robert: AMI audio is a reading
... AMI tv is a fully captioned channel available for everyone with cable in Canada
Robert: We're moving into new areas of digital focus. Aiming to W3C AA status.
[Signage Accessibility slide]
[Signage Accessibilty slide 2]
[Signage Accessibility slide 3]
[Signage Accessibility slide 4]
[links to youtube video]
[DV Guide slide]
Robert: This is a description TV guide. It shows what avaiable from all networks across the country. We launched it June 1st 2012.
[Standard; Science and Art slide]
Robert: Actual implementation is a
combination of Science and Art and should be reflected in the
... We're doing the definition and will drive to uniformity.
[Case Study; Canada]
[Staying in Touch slide]
[Thank you! slide]
Kaz: We need to talk about how to
standardize some of these points in the next session. Any
... Time for Lunch!
Click to enlarge the above images.
13:40 - 15:30 Session 6: Standards
- Mike Smith & Charles McCathieNevile
- J. Alan Bird
What W3C has, what other organizations already do, what gaps do we need to fill?
- Gap analysis for W3C standards today
- Standards from other organizations
- What W3C standards work is already relevant
HTML5 and HTML.next, Mike Smith (W3C) [ Slides ]
Charles McCathieNeville: We're going to talk about W3C Groups, standards etc.
Mike Smith: I work for W3C, based at Keio.
MS: We devide things up by
... I focus on browsers and how standards get implemented in them
... I'm going to overview groups that may be of interest for Web based Signage
... mostly I'm going to talk about APIs
... The place where you can go to follow these developments is lists.w3.org/Archives/Public
... All of our work is done in public. You can subscribe to lists, follow them, etc. without being a member.
MS: The first thing I'm going to talk
about is the HTML Working Group and what we call HTML.next
... I'm going to talk about two apis, Media Source Extensions and Encrypted Media Exts
[Media Source Exts. slide]
MS: The second thing we're looking at is Encrypted Media Extensions:
[Encrypted Media Exts slide]
MS: Get involved, the work has
just gotten started. We have calls that happen weekly, but here in
Japan it's on Tuesday at midnight.
... I'm not going to talk about WebApps WG other than to say it's a class of API that is exposed to you.
... Another group we've had going is the Device API WG or DAP
... These are device specific interaction APIs
... We have another group you probably know about WebRTC WG.
[WebRTC WG slide]
MS: We have a new proposed group
which is waiting approval NFC WG. There seems to be a lot of
patents in this space which may become an inhibitor.
... The last group I want to talk to about is also a proposed group which is System APIs WG
[a set of slides talking about the WG]
MS: they are looking at doing it in phases.
[pulls up the charter to show details]
MS: That's it. if you want to talk to me let me know.
Web Applications & Device APIs, Charles McCathieNevile (Opera Software)
<chaals> http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/wiki/PubStatus -> webapps publivations
Chaals: One minute about WebApps
... This is the bucket where they dump things to do.
Chaals: APIs that were separate
groups but became part of WebApps.
... Some aren't in WebApps (gives examples).
[display of api's that are in the group]
Chaals: They devide into two groups,
one that deals with widgets which are mostly wrapped up and
... Cross Origin resource sharing is about establishing trust.
... The exeception is WebComponents which is a joint project with WebApps and DAP.
... It's a spec to replace XBL, XBL2, sXBL and friends.
... It's an extensibility mechanism to do your own markup.
Chaals: I'll leave it at that as
there is a link in the minutes.
... Explore, ask questions, etc.
Multimodal Architecture and Interfaces, Kaz Ashimura (W3C) [Slides]
Kaz: I'm going to talk about the
other side of W3C.
... Some of the presenters yesterday talked about the data model and SMIL.
... We have similar efforts in W3C.
... The basic features of the Web.
[Web of Devices slide]
[Issues on developing MMI systems slide]
[MMI Architecture slide]
[MMI Architecture Framework slide]
Kaz: Let me show a quick demonstration of MMI from AT&T.
[youtube Speak4it 2.4 screencast]
[Multimodal Mashup slide]
Chaals: Any questions? No?
Jun Fujisawa (Canon) [ Slides ]
Jun Fujisawa (Canon): We've been a member of the W3C for 12 years for graphics.
JF: I want to talk about the various Graphics standards. These technologies should be available in a couple of years.
[General 2D/3D Graphics APIs slide]
[2D/3D Transformation and Transitions slide]
JF: At the same time CSS started talking about Transform SVG did the same thing so a combined taskforce was built to have a unified specification.
[Background Graphics and Borders slide]
[Media Adaptation slide]
[Web Fonts slide]
[Image References and Gradients]
JF: Yellow font means the specification isn't as widely implemented.
[Text Layout across Multiple Regions slide]
[Compositiong and Blending slide]
JF: This is available in SVG but you will be able to use it in HTML in the future as well.
[FIlter Effects slide]
[Web Animation slide]
JF: URI is very early draft of the specification.
[Scalable Vector Graphics slide]
Stephan Steglich (Fraunhofer FOKUS) [ Slides ]
Stephan Steglich (Fraunhofer FOKUS): We're a research institute but no products.
SS: We have a team that is
working on projection technology.
... All the devices were traditional sizes and shapes, but nothing like the shapes you see here.
... We are focused on these kinds of signs / screens.
... We're building prototypes to replace old style paper signage.
... We cannot assume we have a regular rectangular shape. We might have totally different shapes we want to put the content on.
[Webinos Device / PZP Architecture slide]
SS: On digital signage as we've discussed there may be additional elements needed on how to use this technology.
[Current and Future APIs slide]
[Relevant Web Technologies]
SS: These are the technologies we think are interesting for Digital Signage.
[Relevant Web Technologies slide 2]
SS: Geolocation is being used by some companies in Germany today to tailor content delivery.
[Relevent Web Technologies slide 3]
[slide about different input devices and Digital Signage]
[Last slide on Different type of Delivery Context, Different type of Interaction, Animated "Shows"]
SS: Infrared isn't listed but
after earlier presentation it might need to be added.
... Maybe we should take a look at SMIL as it's so widely used in Digital Signage.
Kensaku Komatsu (NTT Communications) Slides ]
Kensaku Komatsu (NTT Communications): We provide networking services, ISP services, etc.
KK: I am interested in Digital
... I am a part of the HTML community here in Japan as well.
<jjkim> +q We feel ultimately, the digital signage needs not only one-way communication but bi-directional interaction functionality for future services. It mainly is related to Web Events WG(for client-side input event), Web RTC (for content/media communication), and Device APIs for device function/resource access.
KK: I will explain the the
developer's view of HTML5
... From the point of view of 'how can I use HTML5'
[Today's Main idea slide]
[Sample image of web-based signage slide]
KK: This sign is showing information about the area.
[talks about options for visibility]
One Option: better design
KK: The service provider can change the content based on the user's actions.
[shows capturing image on 2nd device from signage]
KK: APIs used in this
... CSS3 Media Queries
... Indexed Database (not used in demo but required for implememntations)
... assuming always connected is a dangerous idea. We have to have way to communicate when offline
[Architectures for use-case slide]
KK: I like option 2 (Micro Web server model) because you don't have to care about connectivity to the internet
[Other issues slide]
KK: One solution - QR code
... Another solutions (choosing Web-based services) slide
[Need auto-discovery feature. And join together w/ Web Intents]
[Of course there are lots of things to consider slide]
Hiroyuki Aizu (Toshiba) Slides ]
Hiroyuki Aizu (Toshiba): We offer many systems like PoS and the related signage.
HA: As Web based signage
increases we will do more and more.
... Many interesting presentations as we have covered many scenarios and use cases.
[Multi Screen signage scenario slide]
[Based on current web specs slide]
HA: It's painful method for developers. I propose Respsonsive multi screen approach
[Single screen Web (large screen)]
[Single screen Web (small screen) sldie]
[Multi Screen slide]
[Requirement (cont.) slide]
[Gap analysis for W3C stnadards today slide]
Chaals: Any questions or burning
issues? I have a couple.
... We've all talked about second screen scenarios and interactions.
... In Web & TV world people all talk about these scenarios.
... There are questions about the way you do this.
... It's been talked about if you have a web server in your sign that's one way of delivering services.
... We've talked about browsers giving information to as you go by.
Johan: Others have web servers on phones, SIM cards, etc. so you don't even need a browser.
Chaals: Where do you store the
information, or do you have it delivered.
... WebIntents is the way to discover signs. With everything else that's about discovery, I don't get it.
... WebIntents is designed for other things today.
(gives examples of downloads)
HA: What's wrong with existing things and why would WebIntents be better.
Stefan: Yes there are other ways. When we talk about WebIntents we talk about a simple way to communicate. It could be this is a central service that talks to the sign.
Chaals: So WebIntents doesn't discover the sign, the action is 'here's where you can get the data'
KK: The WebIntent is to request web services. It let's you access it in the same way. This in now working in Sony mobile. They feel other methods are inferior to WebIntents framework.
Johan: In the emergency case would you then have an emergency intent you would serve to the sign?
KK: It would be convenient for the
emergency use cases.
... People can access a sign in an emergency situation to ask for things and to push information to the system.
... This is one example for the use cases.
Chaals: So for WebIntents your providing an alternative to the giant web services stack.
Johan: A lot of what we've been talking about is what's available in web services. There needs to be a clear rationale on why doing that vs. using web services.
SS: We think there is a discussion
going on as to wether WebIntents is proper for this or not. It's
not for discovery, you need to have an existing relationship.
... For really finding and discovering devices you need to do something else. There are a number of activities going on in that area.
Chaals: The use of signs and
applications. There is a pile of work on pieces and other
... Others are building the same things on their own because they don't like the standard version.
Johan: Depends on what application
your using it for and what's needed to do that.
... We need to detail use cases before we start picking technologies.
... Until we know the use cases we don't know what we need.
Chaals: A theme that came out of
... SVG is one such thing and it is much easier than other options.
... A few people have said SMIL is critical, how many people are using it.
... It seems W3C thinks SMIL is done, but maybe the message is that it's good and done or the message may be wei like it but it needs more work.
... If opinions are expressed they will have an impact, but if you don't tell us we don't know.
... The API direction comes from browsers because that's the easy thing to do and is in our direction.
... If you want to say something else you need to speak up.
... As far as browsers are considered SMIL and people using it don't exist.
... Your input is valuable to say things matter.
... Lots of Graphics stuff was presented, is it relevant?
... Yes, signs that don't use graphics exist but there are many more that do.
... W3C has a heap of stuff but is there stuff missing? Everyone wants things to move faster, but we have most of it sort of implemented.
SS: I would extend this to video formats as well. On Graphics I think everything is fine. I'm not sure of ongoing work actually.
Chaals: Yes there is with things like SVG2, etc.
Kaz: Stephan, do you mean closed captioning as well when you talk about video format?
Mike Smith: While Chaals was talking two things came to mind.
HA: One thing he said is you
don't exist if you don't speak up. You need to at least be part of
the public discussion.
... The second thing is that W3C has published specs which aren't good. Just because we've published it doesn't mean it's the right way to go.
... As an example we spent a lot of time on closed captioning and had to have a new spec.
... SMIL kind of comes in that camp as well. We found we couldn't implement it.
Chaals: I have a different
prospective, sure we could do SMIL. The hard bits of SMIL are
implemented in browsers already. The bit we haven't got is time
... Browser makers didn't want to implement SMIL because they didn't see usage of it. The voices weren't there so we went with something simpler.
... It's not particularly cleaver or powerful. So what you now have is a hacked together version in HTML5. It got that way because we didn't know people were using SMIL.
... You get what's thought up by the people that are involved in the discussion.
... Some standards are good, some are not good, some are good but nobody wants to implement them.
... Some APIs I see from Google aren't designed for Developers but Systems people.
... It is indeed coffee time, we've heard stuff presented, dig into the minutes afterwards to get more info. Thanks to the panel!
<jjkim> +q to this panel discussion, I agree that we need more detailed use cases. Back to the orgin, I want to ask the grand question: What content or service does the Web-based Signage provide?
<jjkim> +q Upon the detailed target and use cases, we can go back to the generalization process for standard issue, including SMIL and SVGs.
<jjkim> +q Talking about SMIL already assumes that the media on signage is synchronized, but is that the key factor/issue? Maybe, maybe not
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Session 7: Wrap Up & Next Steps
- Futomi Hatano & Kaz Ashimura
- Mike Smith
- Workshop issue review
- What was missing so far
- Business impact of Web-based Signage
- How to work in W3C (how the Web-based BG relates to other groups, etc.)
Sunghan Kim (ETRI) [ Slides ]
Sunghan Kim from ETRI presenting
SK giving an overview of contents of his presentation
"Service cases in Korea"
mentioning ITU-T SG-16
showing slide with examples of public digital signage in Korea
subway, bus stop
beauty store, "GS caltex", in-store media, shelf media
GS caltex is for gasoline stands
CGV Theater (movie theater), DAUM "Digital View", golf course, "Everland"
"DS service features" slide
SK: need interoperability
... need to define high-level requirements
DS activity in ITU-T SG16
Kazunori Tanikawa from NEC
giving an overview of the SG16 scope
types of devices
listing general requirements for digital signage
Architectural Overview diagram
SK: Does W3C need cooperation with ITU-T digital signage activity?
[Sunghan Kim presentation finishes]
Futomi Hatano (Newphoria) [ Slides ]
next up is Futomi Hatano
FH presentation is "Web-based Signage Business Group"
FH: I will talk about why I created
this BG, then talk about the scope
... I am a Web developer, and we create digital-signage content using Web technologies
... The content of the digital signage outside the door of this room was done by our company
... I like sci-fi and my dream, in one phrase is, "Screen everywhere."
... I will show an impressive video now
... this shows a TV at home, with a touch panel
... and a mirror above a washstand, with an integrated touch panel
... next shows use of signage on a motorway
... now, showing a touch panel at a bus stop
... next, a shopping mall
... finally, a teacher using a large touch-panel/screen
FH discussing what signage helps
FH: but there are some problems
... lack of interoperability is a problem, as is the cost
FH discussing on moving to Web-based signage can help
-> http://www.w3.org/community/websignage/ Web-based Signage Business Group
FH: this BG will focus on
... we will need to focus on formats
... goal is to first identify use cases and requirements
... and identify gaps in existing standards
... and dependencies and liaisons
... please join the W3C and join this new Web-based Signage Business Group!
chaals: comment: hopefully this BG
will say "these are the things we are using"
... knowing what W3C standards are being used is helpful
... knowing what technologies you all are already using now
Workshop issue review
kaz: time for review of issues from this workshop
kaz notes "All Signs Point to the Web"
kaz talks some more
kaz: we talked about existing
technologies -- SVG, SMIL, Web Animations, etc.
... let's start listing out the key topics
... some presenters mentioned SCXML, and I mentioned MMI myself as a possible archicture
... Sunghan mentioned possible collaboration with ITU-T
... others mentioned 3GPP, POPAI
question -- Do we have anything about UI control?
chaals: no, not yet
... but we have been adding events for all kinds of things
... this seems like not a really scalable way to do things moving forward
... we started a new WG, IndieUI WG
... which takes a different approach
-> http://www.w3.org/2011/11/indie-ui-charter Indie UI Working Group Charter
-> http://www.w3.org/2012/05/indie-ui-charter.html CURRENT Indie UI Working Group Charter
Stephan: question --how about delivery context?
Johan: we need to document the use cases
chaals: yes, we should not forget it. We need to go through the raw minutes and make a big list of the use cases presented
Stephan: do we need discuss categories of digital signage?
chaals: there are a huge range of categorizations. better to first look at the use cases
Stephan: maybe it's important to discuss things like shapes of screens -- e.g., non-rectangular ones
chaals: there are lots of other
... categorizing the use cases would be something good for the Web-based Signage BG to do
Aizu: so maybe we need to think about photo boards, notice boards
kobayashi: we need to think about future digital signage, and about the business model behind all this
Business reflections on what we heard, J. Alan Bird
next is Alan Bird (super scribe)
AB: I was asked to talk about the
business side of what I heard at this workshop
... there is more opportunity than the time to capture it
... the new business group needs to drive this work
... I would challenge the BG to think about other companies that we need to get involved in this
... When you are looking at this, look at what use cases *you* have that really matter to *you*
... Example: before the Web and TV effort started, we did not have any broadcasters involved in work at W3C on Web technologies
... but we do now, and they are having an effect on work in various places at W3C -- making their use cases known
... thanks to everybody for attending. This workshop seems to have been very productive.
kaz: so, yeah, please all join the
... Hatano-san and I will follow up on this workshop by preparing the workshop report
... thanks to everybody for attending
... and big thanks to NTT for sponsoring the workshop
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