See also: IRC log
<trackbot> Date: 21 June 2012
<scribe> scribenick: nikos
krit: I have a blog post about it
<krit> http://blogs.adobe.com/webplatform/2012/06/20/test-the-web-forward-weekend/
krit: I think it was a great event. Lots of people were interested and wrote tests for SVG.
shepazu: I thought it was good
that Adobe is helping to push testing this way
... I made a new methodology for testing transforms
<shepazu> http://schepers.cc/svg/tests/test-transforms-rotate.svg
Cyril: I looked at the test, it just shows green on pass
shepazu: That's the idea
... what I did is programatically create 360 rectangles that
are all red
... removed transforms and converted to paths in InkScape
... then put the resulting shape back into the test on a green
background
... then included original transforms and to get rid of
aliasing I added a 3 pixel green stroke
... the result - all you see is green
... we can use this for SVG and CSS transforms
... you may have artifacts if you use pngs
Cyril: fonts may cause problems when converted to paths
shepazu: I gave a presentation at
TTWF - there were about 50-60 people
... first day was food and methodologies
... second day was presentations on how you make tests and
share them, etc
... the rest was people writing tests. During the day, Adobe
raffled prizes
... people were there, on a nice day so that says something
about how Adobe hosted
... about 100 tests were submitted
... Alan Stearns, Peter Linss, fantasai and some others
presented
... Thanks to Adobe. It was a great event. Good work Dirk on
creating my slides.
ed: Do we have any svg tests to approve?
shepazu: Ryosuke Niwa from Google
made a number of tests
... They were created by krit, I did modify them by hand
... There's a markup syntax you can use and then generate
html+css slides
krit: There's no wysiwyg tool though
krit: We have created some tests
with inline SVG and we were wondering where we define how the
SVG element contributes to HTML
... Is it specified already?
... Our test showed us that the default is inline
... all browsers do the same, the question is whether it is
specified?
ed: What have you checked in the spec so far?
krit: I searched in the HTML5 and a bit in the SVG spec and I couldn't find anything
Tav: I think it should be in the SVG integration spec
shepazu: I am the editor of the
SVG integration spec. We resolved to publish it long ago but
I'm not sure about the direction of it
... the problem is that we were wanting to have a definitive
list of all attributes in a table and the script for generating
it was screwed up. I was waiting on a fix.
... there's also a lot of comments on the spec that we need to
integrate
Tav: I think it's an important spec
shepazu: Yeh I think it's
important, so if we can get that script working, then I'm happy
to publish whenever
... Anthony was working on it
ed: CDF working group never got
around to defining the SVG-inline-in-html case
... I don't think it has anything defining how inline SVG and
HTML works
shepazu: SVG integration draws from some ideas from CDF, so I think that's the right place to put it
krit: I wouldn't be opposed
ed: I agree
... It's nice that all the viewers do the same thing even
though it isn't defined. A lot of content would break if it
wasn't like that
shepazu: SVG integration lists
all attributes and properties and where they are defined
... that wouldn't be appropriate for SVG 2 spec
... we could put it in SVG 2 if we want
Resolution: SVG inline in html case will be defined in SVG 2
<scribe> ACTION: shepazu will include SVG inline in html case in SVG 2 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/06/21-svg-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-3310 - Will include SVG inline in html case in SVG 2 [on Doug Schepers - due 2012-06-28].
krit: At the moment we have
filter effects without a dash and both capitalised
... CSS and SVG don't use capitalised words
... I propose we use filter-effects without capitals
ed: Ok with me
Resolution: Filter effects shorthand will be filter-effects
ed: Dirk you are going to be come co-editor of that spec?
krit: Not 100% sure yet
<scribe> ACTION: krit change filter effects shorthand to filter-effects [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/06/21-svg-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - krit
<krit> dschulze
<scribe> ACTION: dschulze change filter effects shorthand to filter-effects [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/06/21-svg-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-3311 - Change filter effects shorthand to filter-effects [on Dirk Schulze - due 2012-06-28].
<ed> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2012AprJun/0097.html
nikos: Compositing and blending has been reviewed by krit, FPWD not far off. I'm not sure how long each step takes so it's hard to update the table
krit: When you think it's ready you can get resolution from FXTF
Tav: How many months do you normally allow per step?
shepazu: That varies FPWD - LC
could be 2 years it could be less
... LC to CR 6-8 weeks is reasonablye but you'll probably have
more than 1 LC
... so probably 4 months
... Technically you don't need to go into CR, if you have tests
that are passed by implementations you can have 0 day CR
... more typically is a few months or 6 months
... depends on implementations and tests
... After CR comes proposed reccomendation which is 6
weeks
... sort of a watch state
... maybe 4 weeks
... then comes REC. W3C specs are good for 10 years and then
they are removed
ed: I think one of the things Cameron wanted figured out was for the specs that no one is doing edits on
krit: Any particular spec?
ed: SVG accessibility for
example
... do we have anything on that?
shepazu: Not really, I have some
notes and little things
... A member has expressed interest in joining to explicitly
work on SVG accessibility
ed: Do the estimates look ok
then?
... does it make sense to list an estimate with no one working
on it?
Tav: leave it blank
shepazu: We could put those in a
separate list. Timeline is pending securing an editor
... we should give as much info as we have
ed: Another one that was asked about was masking and clipping
shepazu: Did we decide not to do that one?
ed: I think so. From what I remember we talked about using the compositing instead
krit: I thought Ed O'Conner and
Vincent wanted to work on a masking spec
... I'll check
nikos: There's an open action on
Anthony Grasso to fold clipping and masking spec into
compositing module
... from 2008
ed: what about SVG Parameters?
shepazu: People are working on that. I'd like to devote a telcon on it sometime
ed: the estimates are ok then?
shepazu: For now. you guys change
the timelines as you think
... First we need to look at first draft, then the api and
syntax
... maybe I could make a public call to find out what syntax
people want
... it might be able to be defined in terms of CSS
variables
... I'd have to talk to Tab about that
... maybe he could join a call
ed: SVG Integration. What's holding that back?
shepazu: attributes table
... I think Cameron might be the natural person to do
that
... he's managing the build system
nikos: do we know the status of the script?
shepazu: Can we put this on the agenda for next week?
ed: Color Management? Chris is
not here, he was the one doing that spec
... He posted to the list. There is work going on that
one
... Tiling and Layering?
birtles: I've been in discussion
with Takagi-san. He's working on it and will integrate some of
the features into SVG 2 proper. I need to go through the stuff
he's sent me. He's still active on it.
... He's saying that mapping is becoming more central to the
web. especially with mobile. With Apple pushing their mapping
he wants to push for a standard.
ed: Vector Effects?
shepazu: I see Chris plans to prioritise work on SVG 2 over that until SVG 2 is further along
ed: We already have resolutions
to add minor pieces from it into SVG 2
... so we're just waiting for someone to take up SVG
accessibility
birtles: I'd like to add animations onto that list
<birtles> Web Animations spec: https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/FXTF/raw-file/tip/web-anim/index.html
<ed> s/minor pieces from it/minor pieces from it (such as non-scaling-stroke and fill/stroke-order)/
ed: so how close is the web animations spec from FPWD?
birtles: The initial goal is to have it more or less complete by SVG open (September)
krit: Do we need reviews on it before FPWD?
birtles: I suppose we do. I'm not familiar with the normal process.
ed: I guess the review before
publishing FPWD is up to the working groups
... if not everyone agrees on a resolution to publish FPWD it
will need more work
birtles: We'd like to have something ready to be reviewed by mid to late September
ed: So brian do you want to add it to the table/
birtles: yep
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/Roadmap#Timeline
Cyril: It's a follow up of something I was working on before my trip to Australia
<Cyril> http://concolato.wp.mines-telecom.fr/2012/06/18/html-5-video-and-svg-graphics-synchronization/
Cyril: I was working on a way to
display SVG graphics on video in a browser
... I made some experiments
... Basically I put SVG content in a web vtt file
... I've tested with all browsers and it doesn't work at the
moment
... I don't think it's a proper solution
... I tried a different approach using Canvas. I have a HTML5
video and I monitor the time events
... I wasn't really succesful with this solution either
... time and date event isn't precise
... last attempt was displaying an SVG animation on top of the
video. It works quite well.
... it works very well for stepping through the video frame by
frame
... as did canvas
... but when you play it real speed it plays almost
properly
... the thing that bothers me is, I used the seek features, I
couldn't control the timeline
... my reccommendation is if people thing it's an interesting
use case we should enable HTML 5 media group on SVG
element
... if two elements share the same value for media group then
they are synchronised by the browser
... you wouldn't have to do anything
... another element is to allow the svg element inside the
track element of HTML
birtles: We've looked at it as part of web animations. it's difficult.
Cyril: so far from my tests it
seems to work only on Chrome
... I think if we want synchronised video and graphics with
frame accuracy we don't want to do it with script
... the browser controls the timeline so telling the browser
the timeline should follow the video is the way to go
birtles: I agree. We talked about
a number of options when Alex, Shane and Rik came to
Tokyo
... the main difficulty is integrating with HTML's media
element interfaces
... I think it's something we want in web animations and I
think that's the right place for it.
Cyril: I'm not sure if it's a question of animation. It seems to be more a question of integration
birtles: The use case could be video and text or video and svg as you mentioned
Cyril: Do you have documentation - minutes or anything?
birtles: not much. We did talk about having a third time container which is a synchronised time container specifically to line up with HTML media groups
Cyril: Maybe we can discuss at the F2F in July
<birtles> there are a few notes here: http://www.w3.org/Graphics/fx/wiki/Web_Animations/Meetings/Tokyo_F2F_Day_1 (but I think we later reversed a lot of those decisions :) )
<ed> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues
ed: Not all issues have an assigned product
<ed> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/open
ed: Same story with the actions
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.136 of Date: 2011/05/12 12:01:43 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/[missed name]/Ryosuke Niwa/ Succeeded: s/HMLT/HTML/ Succeeded: s/CDS/CDF/ Succeeded: s/SVG case/SVG-inline-in-html case/ WARNING: Bad s/// command: s/minor pieces from it/minor pieces from it (such as non-scaling-stroke and fill/stroke-order)/ Found ScribeNick: nikos Inferring Scribes: nikos WARNING: No "Present: ... " found! Possibly Present: Cyril Doug_Schepers P0 P11 Tav aaaa aabb aacc aadd birtles ed jet joined krit nikos scribenick shepazu svg trackbot You can indicate people for the Present list like this: <dbooth> Present: dbooth jonathan mary <dbooth> Present+ amy Regrets: heycam chris Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2012AprJun/0097.html WARNING: No meeting chair found! You should specify the meeting chair like this: <dbooth> Chair: dbooth Found Date: 21 Jun 2012 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2012/06/21-svg-minutes.html People with action items: change dschulze effects filter krit shepazu shorthand[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]