See also: IRC log
<IanPouncey> shawn: do the bots still need setting up?
<dboudreau> hi everyone, getting on the call in a minute
<shawn> scribe: Sharron
<shawn> Update your Availability for Upcoming EOWG Teleconferences http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35532/availability/
Shawn: Remeber that you can change your availability later on but need to know who is available.
Sylvie: Jan 6 or 20th?
Shawn: Will fix right now.
... follow the link here and let us know when you can and cannot attend.
Shawn: The Before and After Demo.
We had a couple of comments, Shadi addressed them and sent one
more round of comments to discuss.
... want to check. Is EO happy to say it is done, or do you need more formal approval process?
... will address the comments, nto that all will be implemented.
Shadi: There are a few things that might be bugs or improvements. We will address, maybe put on list for future action.
Shawn: Can we accept this as version 1? We will always address comments, but move from fdraft status.
Jennifer: There were some speicifc concerns about specific WCAG criteria, have those been addressed?
Shadi: Some claims of "failure" I don't agree with. We will address them for example we will provide a skip link to the annotations, and such. With comments that make sense, we will implement. others we may diplomatically put into a queue for next update.
Denis: There was a conversation yesterday about including CAPTCHA on the BAD version and an accessible alternative on the other. I am not sure I think we should do this, since it may be seen as a validation of CAPTCHA.
<shawn> Thoughts on the Future of BAD http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-eo/2011OctDec/0055.html
Shadi: we have several requests for things to add: PDF documents, for example, WAI-ARIA, multi-media and so forth. There are many things we could do but we can't continue indefintely. So we should decide if we can call this done and list things for the next version.
<shawn> [ Shawn also notes the Call for Review email says: "(Adding video, scripting, and WAI-ARIA are already on the list of enhancements that we would like to implement in BAD.)" ]
Shadi: I understand that people want there to be more in the BAD which is good, since it validates this work. But we just can't do everything.
Dennis: Very good.
Jennifer: I was glad to see all the positive comments from people using it in teaching situations.
Wayne: I think this is a great
place to start a new model of approval. We could add one page
at a time. Version 1 is approved and Version 2 will just add
... can publish as is but not give up on new features.
<dboudreau> +1 to a first version, knowing we can always improve it in other upcoming versions
Shawn: Let me do a formal call - the questions is this: Does EO approve this document once Shawn and Shadi are confident that we have addressed all comments without the need for another round of EO approval?
<AndrewA> +1 to releasing now (as soon as Shawn/Shadi happy)
<shawn> +1 Jennifer
<Sylvie> as already said in e-mail +1
Shawn: Anything else on BAD?
<dboudreau> BAD is good :)
Shawn: Announcement of the Sept 5th symposium filled up in just 24 hours!
Shadi: it was a very focused topic and had phone lines for 50 people so I had to close registration. Will be working with tech support to see if others lines will be made available.
<AndrewA> congrats to shadi and RDWG
Shadi: will be an exciting session. Got a good number of papers and will be looking at metrics. Look forward to the symposium and the work we will do as a result.
<dboudreau> i agree… in my experience you always lose about 25-30% with no shows at free events
<dboudreau> whether they're online or not
<shawn> Sharron: 25-30% no shows for free events
Shawn: Do we want to consider using a different bridge with more lines.
<AndrewA> i've experienced about 20% drop out for free events (except for a recent one where we only had 5%)
Shadi: I did not expect for this topic to ahve that kind of response. So even if they fall off to that number, it would just bring us within the real limit.
Dennis: Considering that you will have no-shows, if this group participants like Andrew want to join, it would be OK.
Shawn: At some point, if you
think you might re-open it, we might send a confirmation
message. Ask people to change answer if their plans have
... People had to agree to read all the abstracts first and the symposium is on Dec 5.
Shawn: Feel free to suggest ideas for a future symposium topic to the wiki.
<shawn> proposed topics: http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/wiki/Main_Page
<shawn> ideas, input Comments and feedback: firstname.lastname@example.org
Shawn: Cliff was going to put
summaries of the minutes but seems he did not get to
... We talked about big picture, needs, trends, what is coming up.
... talked specifically about Outreach, Application Notes. Went through the detailed Task List from a previous redesign.
... then we looked at the documents we have and what priorities might be for promoting those.
... Met with Web Education Community Group and looked for ways to collaborate and support tht work.
<AndrewA> noted the WebEd group is ramping up
Wayne: Is there any more back from them? They were talking about certificates?
Shawn: Alan Bird is Business
developemnt from W3C and he is talking about certification as
... he has understood more about the issues related to certification and is stepping back a bit from that.
Sharron: But the WebEd group isn't stepping back?
Shawn: No, but certification was
a low priority for them.
... we have a W3C fellow helping with that as well.
... there are a couple of aspects that we discussed as a group. First, whatever instructional material is posted, accessiiblity is fully integrated. Best practices must be demonstrated in all posted materials.
... secondly relevant accessibility information must be included as all topics are taught.
... on another level, they will be some accessiiblity specific courses. While there are no errors in what I have reviewed, there is certainly room for improvement.
<shawn> Link to material addressed in the f2f http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/2011/11f2f#read
<shawn> Sharron: exciting things from f2f - love idea of "cookbook" recipes of How To
<shawn> ... making our outreach more pointed & practicle. short tutorials. doc of the week/month
<shawn> ... sometmes we feel like we're tinkering with doc that no one sees
<shawn> ... most exciting thing for me this year
<shawn> ... getting serious about how to connect to greater community
Shawn: Yes there are many things
that we want to do and need to do, but many are not even aware
of what we have.
... so rather than put a ton of energy into creating new things, we should promote what we have.
Denis: The isea of a cookbook is one that I hear of in many circles. Karl Groves movement toward the BoK. Wouldn't the cookbook be an interesting project within EO?
Shawn: Yes, this has been on our list. We now have some funding through the WAI ACT project that will provide deliverables in the form of application notes, recipes, short pratical lessons in how-to meet requireemtns for specific things.
,,,we want to pull the community together to organize the information in easily usable formats
<Wayne> Bye everyone. Off to the physician..
Denis: What if someone chose to
start a project, would it be received psotively by EO?
... I have quite a few ideas of how I would like to do things like this, would like not to do it alone, would like to receive feedback. If I worked on that could I bring it to EO?
<shawn> Analysis for "Application Notes" http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/changelogs/cl-app-notes
Shawn: here are some intial
... and more from the face-to-face
... absolutely input would be welcome. The list of deliverables within this project is here
Shawn: six pages or more. This particular thing is not the first in the timeline. Since Shadi is managing this, check in with him about timing.
Denis: I would just as soon create a web site to make the information available for free.
Shawn: Yes, since part of the
project is to create a cooperation framework, so I think this
could not be more perfect. The only consideration will be the
timing. Absolutely it sounds like your project fits perfectly
within this. Check with Shadi about how best to
... now we should consider the resource highlighting, anything else before we jump into that?
<shawn> Outreach Planning http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/changelogs/outreach
Jennifer: We considered the different documents that had been developed, we looked at Task that we expect people to do. We considered having small teams of people working on highlighting and discussiong completed resources currently posted to the WAI pages.
<shawn> old task list http://www.w3.org/WAI/redesign/tasks.html - info from f2f file in spreadsheet: http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/Drafts/WAIsiteTaskList-outreach.xlsx & http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/Drafts/WAIsiteTaskList-outreach.ods
Jennifer: for example I said I'd do contacting organziation, Sharron and Wayne are doing Essential Components and Char and Cliff are doing BAD.
Shawn: The idea is to do a
coordinated, planned effort on promoting the various resources.
We thought about a "Resource of the Month"
... or more frequently?
... Resource of the Week requires much to be queued up and ready to go.
... want other orgs to includie it in newsletters.
... reactions form those who were NOT at the f2f?
Andrew: Resource of teh Month is a great idea. In terms of getting others to pick it up, if we were to bring it out regularly, we would soon have a very good following.
Denis: I really like this idea.
Again, there are resources being shared by Laura Carlson and
myself where we do an Weekly Watch on accessiiblity
... we would be pleased to share the resources in both directions.
Jennifer: The main point was to get people to know about the WAI resources.
Sharron: But Denis's list would be a great place for outreach.
Shawn: Just to clarify, it is not so much to "generate traffic" but to let people know about the resources.
Denis: I don't use them much becasue of the "Draft" staus and not wanting to get into trouble for promoting things that are not yet ready to share.
Shawn: Yes, good point so we would be very clear about that. And we want to be crazy broad about the outreach.
Jennifer: My push list is pretty disability centered. I think we want to be even broader.
Ian: Wanting other orgs to push people in the direction of WAI. Having one story or article that we are pushing in a certain period of time is good.
Shawn: One of the things we envisioned was to take one resource. Think about BAD. There is a huge range of the kind of focus we could do to outreach about that resource. One approach to trainers - people who teach accessiiblity. Another point of view for thse who develop web sites. Another for people with disabilities and how they can get an idea about other issues for various disabilities - an advocacy tol.
Jennifer: That makes a lot of sense.
Ian: Sounds like you would write
an article, some tweets and some other ways to reach out.
... Do we have a presence on Tumblr? the capacity for sharing short blog posts?
Shawn: yes we want to actively
take advantage of opportunities like that.
... We will need to queue up at least a couple of things to be ready to maintain the outreach. Look at the chart and the prioritization.
... I have fleshed this out quite a bit since the f2f about what is ready, what may want to go first, what things have gotten stale, etc.
... We have a document called "Improving the Accessiiblity of Your Website" we published in 2006 and never promoted it at all.
... are comfortable with the older docs as they are, do we need to update before promotion?
<shawn> sharron: afriad of getting bogged down in review old docs, wordsmithing, etc.
<shawn> start with thihnngs that are already ready
<AndrewA> +1 to Sharron
Sharron: I would not want to get bogged down in revision. I suggest that rise to the top based on what's ready.
Shawn: If we review what's ready
to go, "How to Contact..." "Essential Components..." and
... looking through the list, are those still the first three?
Sharron: I am happy with these
Denis: What about "How People with Disabilities..."
Shawn: Not ready yet.
Sharron: What does it need?
<AndrewA> what about "make your presentations accessible"?
<AndrewA> 'spotlight' is good
Denis: We need to be aware that "resource of the Month" comes around quickly.
Jennifer: That's why I suggested we get some in the can
Shawn: Maybe Resource Spotlight?
Denis: I see an opportunity to both review resources, put them back in the spotlight and give us a chance to consider and update them.
Sharron: Strong +1
<AndrewA> +1 to Denis
Sharron: I so agree and this process can give us the chance to know we have time pressure and not get so bogged down.
Denis: The fact of pushing things out on a monthly basis will keep us from letting the perfect be the enemy of the good.
Andrew: Making Presentatins...?
Shawn: We have the buggy
interface with the expand/collapse that caused us to tweak the
content categories. it is published as a draft.
... we can decide to promote as a draft or finish and promote as a final.
Andrew: All the material is correct. yes we could polish it, yes it could be a bit more usable. But it is one of the things that we could let more time go by polishing and polishing.
Jennifer: it would REALLY be good to circulate this in January when people are preparing CSUN presentations.
<shawn> statregic about timing
Jennifer: let's talk about that.
It would be so cool to tie certain documents to certain events
or other releases.
... are there things that going on - World Usability Day, for example would be a good partner for How People with Disabilities Use the Web.
... especially if thinking about getting press and getting into newsletters.
... I think we could re-use some of the previous items for shopping online during the holidays.
... to re-spin about contacting organizations around holiday shopping.
Andrew: and holiday bookings.
<AndrewA> holiday shopping + holiday bookings
<dboudreau> dec 3rd
<dboudreau> or 2nd?
Shawn: It would make it fun to tie the release to various events.
<AndrewA> http://www.idpwd.com.au/ - 3/Dec
Shawn: we could something like
the intro to accessibility for World Disability Day.
... Other ideas for priority or timing, please send them by email. For now, let's talk specifically about "Contacting People" as a promotional resource for the month of December.
Shawn: Jennifer compiled a push list directly related to this. Do we want to develop blurbs to editors?
Jennifer: Given limited time constraints, let's blog about it and that's all.
Sharron: What about a press release?
Jennifer: Who will be contacted if the press picks this up?
Shawn: They would have to go
... W3C may decide not to invest the time.
<AndrewA> World Usability Day Nov/2012 - 'Involving Users' and/or 'Web Accessibility and Usability Working Together'
Denis: If we think about it on a local level, I could translate into french and circulate it here.
Shawn: We will actively encourage translation.
Jennifer: we could include that in the blog post, feel free to translate.
Shwn: We could even queue up some
translations in the comments or such.
... have some ready when it posts and if others provide translation, we can link to it.
Denis: Once we know which documents are complete, Sylvie and I can work closely together on that.
Shawn: That is something else we can work on with the promotion push. Get translations lined up in advance.
<Sylvie> I would hbehappy to help with translations too.
<dboudreau> +1 to email followup
Jennifer: The bottom line...let's
figure backwards. If it is not out in the next week it will be
lost in the holidays.
... I will get it to the list on the 21st and it will go public right after T'giving.
... I just don't know that we have enough time to use the entire push list that I started, but this is the first one, it's OK.
... Can we affirm that I will take that blog post, rewrite it , post to the EO list for approval?
Shawn: Thoughts from others?
<dboudreau> all good for me, ready to help and follow up
Shawn: I am thinking about what
will fit on the W3C blog and spin it differently in different
... given that we have the generic blog post, wouldn't you next step be to craft a blurb that is specifc to disability advocates?
Jennifer: yes that is what I am planning to do.
Shawn: But it may not fit on the W3C blog.
Sharron: If not, it can always go on the Knowbility blog?
Andrew: We could take the spin that we wrote about this previously and if you missed it, the holidays are coming up and if you are online booking or shopping, it may be useful in the upcoming holiday period.
Shawn: So if we just use tweets "Come across an inaccessible site during holiday shopping...read this and link"
<dboudreau> yes it does
<AndrewA> tweeting is good
Shawn: So each of us can think
about the places that each of us touches
... good discussion. Please watch the list and reply.
Jennifer: My action item?
Shawn: Let's follow up after the
meeting and everyone in the meantime think of how to reach out
about "How to Contact..." starting at the end of
... if nothing else for now, stay in touch on the list and we'll see if we need to meet next week.
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.136 of Date: 2011/05/12 12:01:43 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/happy b-day yeah :)/ / Succeeded: s/Alan Byrd/Alan Bird/ Succeeded: s/Part of the point was to generate traffic to the WAI site./The main point was to get people to know about the WAI resources./ Succeeded: s/Andres/Andrew/ Found Scribe: Sharron Inferring ScribeNick: Sharron Default Present: Shawn, Sharron, +1.650.348.aaaa, Jennifer, Shadi, +1.908.723.aabb, sylvie, Jim, dboudreau, IanPouncey, +44.738.aacc, +1.562.256.aadd, AndrewA, Wayne, Ian Present: Shawn Sharron +1.650.348.aaaa Jennifer Shadi +1.908.723.aabb sylvie Jim dboudreau IanPouncey +44.738.aacc +1.562.256.aadd AndrewA Wayne Ian Regrets: Pooja Vicki Wayne Shadi Got date from IRC log name: 18 Nov 2011 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2011/11/18-eo-minutes.html People with action items:[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]