HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference

08 Sep 2011


See also: IRC log


Rich_Schwerdtfeger, Michael_Cooper, Judy, Janina_Sajka, Léonie_Watson, +1.650.468.aaaa, JF
Laura_Carlson, Joshue_O_Connor, Marco_Ranon
LeonieWatson, Rich


<trackbot> Date: 08 September 2011

<JF> phone issues, but on my way

<JF> Grrr... need to restart my phone.

<JF> will join ASAP

<janina> JF, Janina is having similar issues!

<janina> Sorry all. I'm working on it.

<JF> I enter code to join meeting, but zakim can't "hear" the tone/code

<janina> Meeting: HTML-A11Y telecon

<janina> agenda: this

<LeonieWatson> scribe: LeonieWatson

Identify Scribe http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Scribe_List

Subteam Reports: Bug Triage; Canvas; Text; Media;

Bug triage update

<richardschwerdtfe> scribe: Rich

<richardschwerdtfe> Leonie: we have made some progress on keywords being tagged. We are about 70% of the way through and will finish review next week

<richardschwerdtfe> Leonie: After this we will look at the bigger list of bugs

<richardschwerdtfe> Leonie: We will then get them prioritized

<richardschwerdtfe> Leonie: We can get a couple of bugs we are reviewing. ....

<richardschwerdtfe> janina: you wanted to bring questions to this meeting to get wider opinion?

<richardschwerdtfe> Leonie: I don't have access to the minutes from Tuesday so perhaps next week. Perhaps, Michael does?

bug 13368

<richardschwerdtfe> Leonie: this needs to be tracked

<richardschwerdtfe> janina: is this the same question we are raising from the text sub team to ask the group to reconsider the decision on alt?

<richardschwerdtfe> JF: this does not have to do with meta generator

<richardschwerdtfe> Leonie: this has more to do with generated content

<richardschwerdtfe> JF: my understanding is that content generated by CSS is passed through the dom and sent to screen readers

<richardschwerdtfe> JF: the problem, as I see it, is that using the before and after pseudo selectors is with putting an image on the screen. If you put in a PDF in a content management system an image is generated without alt text

<richardschwerdtfe> JF: If I were to generated text it would be read by a screen reader

<richardschwerdtfe> JF: I feel this is a concern

<richardschwerdtfe> janina: It seems that by how you describe it ...

<richardschwerdtfe> Leonie: The bug triage team felt this was a problem to track

<richardschwerdtfe> JF: I don't mind taking this bug on. My concern is that this was not reviewed by PF

<richardschwerdtfe> JF: someone told me this was how it was used to be

<richardschwerdtfe> Rich: we were talking about sprites for high contrast mode but I don't recall this one being discussed

<richardschwerdtfe> Michael: Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis has extensive comments

<richardschwerdtfe> JF: the question really is what would be the preferred behavior?

<richardschwerdtfe> JF: we had the means of generating sequences of numbers

<richardschwerdtfe> JF: that to me was generated content not voiced by a screen reader

<richardschwerdtfe> Michael: several ways of generating comments

<richardschwerdtfe> Michael: we think these are CSS and not HTML issues but we need to look at this in the context of HTML

<richardschwerdtfe> janina: that sounds correct

<richardschwerdtfe> JF: so, what are we going to do

<richardschwerdtfe> Michael: listing the problems is a starting point

<richardschwerdtfe> Michael: Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis should be engageable in this

<richardschwerdtfe> JF: It should be considered as a background image

<richardschwerdtfe> JF: It needs to be exosed to AT

<richardschwerdtfe> Rich: we can apply roles of images and an aria-label to the targeted element

<richardschwerdtfe> JF: what about actionable elements?

<richardschwerdtfe> janina: we don't need to solve this today?

<richardschwerdtfe> janina: we don't need to solve this today

<richardschwerdtfe> janina: we need to ramp up our ability to address this

<richardschwerdtfe> judy: If you want to add to the agenda to help Leonie filling out that matrix

<richardschwerdtfe> JF: dow we have a mechanism in aria that acts as a toggle?

<richardschwerdtfe> Rich: no

<richardschwerdtfe> JF: would this be an aria.next candidate?

<richardschwerdtfe> Rich: possibly

<richardschwerdtfe> JF: perhaps a wysiwyg editor for this

<richardschwerdtfe> leonie: the equivalent of and empty alt attribute

<richardschwerdtfe> rich: we have an aria-hidden attribute

<richardschwerdtfe> Michael: I don't know that we can convey all this with ARIA as you can have classes

<richardschwerdtfe> Michael: assign the bug to John Foliot

<richardschwerdtfe> Michael: I am willing to be on the subgroup: John, Michael, Leonie, Rich

<richardschwerdtfe> Michael: John to lead the subgroup

Bug 13461

<MichaelC> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=13461

<richardschwerdtfe> janina: this is a substantive comment by a major user

<richardschwerdtfe> janina: from a bug processing perspective this is already subsumed as the information included needs to be retained.

<richardschwerdtfe> janina: we can ask that laura incorporate it into the change proposal supporting the changes for longdesc

<richardschwerdtfe> Leonie: Yup!

<richardschwerdtfe> Janina: we do not want to lose the comments from the Association of American publishers

<richardschwerdtfe> Janina: we would ask laura to ask that this be referenced in the change proposal

<richardschwerdtfe> Judy: I support this

<richardschwerdtfe> Judy: so, this is closed because of duplication of another defect?

<richardschwerdtfe> JF: this is not closed. it is listed as new. Jim thatcher supported it

<richardschwerdtfe> JF: It is not really a bug but it is a comment. There is a tracker issue tagged to it

<richardschwerdtfe> JF: I would support Laura linking to it

<richardschwerdtfe> janina: I suspect it will be closed by procedure as it is already being taken up

<richardschwerdtfe> Judy: yes let's add it to the change proposal but the most relevant place would be to add it into survey when issue is resurveyed

<richardschwerdtfe> janina: this is a bridge we need to cross

<richardschwerdtfe> janina: anything else on this?

<richardschwerdtfe> JF: perhaps a discussion with the chairs so that this does not get closed and lost.

<richardschwerdtfe> JF: they like questions like this coming forward

<richardschwerdtfe> judy: they are going to say put it in the survey

<richardschwerdtfe> JF: this is supporting evidenced for our change proposal

<richardschwerdtfe> judy: my comment earlier was to add this as relevant information to both the change proposal and the survey

<richardschwerdtfe> janina: we should think in terms of how they construct the longdesc survey

<richardschwerdtfe> judy: we can provide feedback on that

<richardschwerdtfe> janina: we can perfect the old survey

Canvas Accessibility focus ring/text baseline

<richardschwerdtfe> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-canvas-api/2011JulSep/0272.html

<richardschwerdtfe> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/FocusRingTextBaseline

Canvas update

RS: We've modified our code and made changes and we're hoping to get reviews by browser vendors on focus ring.
... Once that's done, we can submit a formal CP
... I don't want this to end up with another counter proposal getting in the way.

JS: Questions?

RS: Comments welcome, send them on over.

Media update

JF: Nothing to report.

JS: We're waiting for content to play with for navigation, and we have some poster issue stuff still to work on.

JF: The poster issue has been logged as a formal objection, which I need to look at.

JS: With navigation we need to see if our proposed ideas work?

JF: We should try to convene the group again to look at some of this.

JS: We could maybe take advantage of time together at TPAC.

Text update

JB: We haven't met for the last two weeks, but will meet next week. We have plenty to do.

<JF> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/LongdescZeroEdit

JF: We need to decide what we want to do about the response I drafted for Jonas' CP

JB: Apologies John, I'm hoping to get to this soon.

JF: I'm hearing the chairs will want to make a move soon.

JB: They do understand we have responses pending. If we want to comment on Math, I think they'd welcome that.

<JF> a/Math/Matt

Review of CSS

JS: Before TPAC we're trying to review the whole CSS3 spec.
... We'll hopefully be able to bring PF and CSS WGs together at TPAC.

JF: I could try to reach out to Tab Atkins?

JS: Yep.
... There is another wiki and matrix page.

<janina> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/wiki/CSS/Spec_Review

<richardschwerdtfe> dropping off

LW: I can probably ask my team to help out and filter information back to the PFWG.

JF: There are two entries in the matrix: generated content and generated content page. You can put me down for those.

JS: If people outside of PF are able to help, write to Michael and he'll associate them with the module.

Summary of Action Items

[End of minutes]

Minutes formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl version 1.136 (CVS log)
$Date: 2011/09/08 16:06:27 $

Scribe.perl diagnostic output

[Delete this section before finalizing the minutes.]
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.136  of Date: 2011/05/12 12:01:43  
Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/

Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Succeeded: s/Hawkes Louis/Hawkes-Lewis/
Succeeded: s/matricx/matrix/
Succeeded: s/the most relevant place is to attach it to an existing change proposal. We should add it in a survey/yes let's add it to the change proposal but the most relevant place would be to add it into survey when issue is resurveyed/
Succeeded: s/We need to decide what we want to do about the response I sent to Jonas./We need to decide what we want to do about the response I drafted for Jonas' CP/
Found Scribe: LeonieWatson
Inferring ScribeNick: LeonieWatson
Found Scribe: Rich
Scribes: LeonieWatson, Rich
Default Present: Rich_Schwerdtfeger, Michael_Cooper, Judy, Janina_Sajka, Léonie_Watson, +1.650.468.aaaa, JF
Present: Rich_Schwerdtfeger Michael_Cooper Judy Janina_Sajka Léonie_Watson +1.650.468.aaaa JF
Regrets: Laura_Carlson Joshue_O_Connor Marco_Ranon
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2011Sep/0033.html
Found Date: 08 Sep 2011
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2011/09/08-html-a11y-minutes.html
People with action items: 

[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]