IRC log of html-a11y on 2011-09-08

Timestamps are in UTC.

15:00:42 [RRSAgent]: RRSAgent has joined #html-a11y
15:00:42 [RRSAgent]: logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/09/08-html-a11y-irc
15:00:44 [trackbot]: RRSAgent, make logs world
15:00:46 [trackbot]: Zakim, this will be 2119
15:00:47 [trackbot]: Meeting: HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
15:00:47 [trackbot]: Date: 08 September 2011
15:00:50 [Zakim]: Zakim has joined #html-a11y
15:00:58 [MichaelC]: zakim, this is 2119
15:01:16 [Zakim]: ok, MichaelC; that matches WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)11:00AM
15:01:34 [MichaelC]: zakim, who's on the phone?
15:01:34 [janina]: janina has joined #html-a11y
15:01:50 [MichaelC]: zakim, this is 2119
15:01:55 [MichaelC]: zakim, who's on the phone?
15:01:56 [Zakim]: +Michael_Cooper
15:02:06 [Zakim]: On the phone I see Rich_Schwerdtfeger, Michael_Cooper
15:02:20 [Zakim]: MichaelC, this was already WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)11:00AM
15:02:24 [Zakim]: ok, MichaelC; that matches WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)11:00AM
15:02:30 [Zakim]: On the phone I see Rich_Schwerdtfeger, Michael_Cooper
15:02:45 [JF]: phone issues, but on my way
15:04:34 [MichaelC]: regrets: Laura_Carlson, Joshue_O_Connor, Marco_Ranon
15:04:46 [MichaelC]: agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2011Sep/0033.html
15:05:00 [Zakim]: +Judy
15:05:13 [Zakim]: +??P35
15:05:21 [JF]: Grrr... need to restart my phone.
15:05:26 [Zakim]: -??P35
15:05:27 [JF]: will join ASAP
15:05:41 [janina]: JF, Janina is having similar issues!
15:05:53 [janina]: Sorry all. I'm working on it.
15:06:04 [judy_alt]: judy_alt has joined #html-a11y
15:06:08 [JF]: I enter code to join meeting, but zakim can't "hear" the tone/code
15:06:22 [Zakim]: +??P57
15:06:45 [MichaelC]: zakim, ??P57 is Janina_Sajka
15:06:45 [Zakim]: +Janina_Sajka; got it
15:07:32 [Zakim]: +??P60
15:07:53 [MichaelC]: zakim, ??P60 is Léonie_Watson
15:07:53 [Zakim]: +Léonie_Watson; got it
15:08:58 [janina]: Meeting: HTML-A11Y telecon
15:08:58 [janina]: Chair: Janina_Sajka
15:08:58 [janina]: agenda: this
15:08:58 [janina]: agenda+ Identify Scribe http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Scribe_List
15:08:58 [janina]: agenda+ Subteam Reports: Bug Triage; Canvas; Text; Media;
15:08:58 [janina]: agenda+ Other Business
15:09:01 [janina]: agenda+ Actions Review http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/open
15:09:03 [janina]: agenda+ Identify Scribe for 1 September http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Scribe_List
15:09:05 [janina]: agenda+ be done
15:09:06 [janina]
15:09:15 [LeonieWatson]: scribe: LeonieWatson
15:09:15 [Zakim]: + +1.650.468.aaaa
15:09:27 [JF]: zakim, aaaa is JF
15:09:27 [Zakim]: +JF; got it
15:10:20 [janina]: zakim, who's here?
15:10:20 [Zakim]: On the phone I see Rich_Schwerdtfeger, Michael_Cooper, Judy, Janina_Sajka, Léonie_Watson, JF
15:10:23 [Zakim]: On IRC I see judy_alt, janina, Zakim, RRSAgent, LeonieWatson, JF, richardschwerdtfe, MichaelC, davidb, MikeSmith, trackbot, [tm]
15:11:09 [JF]: zakim, take up agendum 1
15:11:09 [Zakim]: agendum 1. "Identify Scribe http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Scribe_List" taken up [from janina]
15:11:36 [JF]: zakim, take up agendum 2
15:11:36 [Zakim]: agendum 2. "Subteam Reports: Bug Triage; Canvas; Text; Media;" taken up [from janina]
15:12:22 [LeonieWatson]: Topic: Bug triage update
15:12:32 [richardschwerdtfe]: scribe: Rich
15:13:01 [richardschwerdtfe]: Leonie: we have made some progress on keywords being tagged. We are about 70% of the way through and will finish review next week
15:13:16 [richardschwerdtfe]: Leonie: After this we will look at the bigger list of bugs
15:13:32 [richardschwerdtfe]: Leonie: We will then get them prioritized
15:13:45 [richardschwerdtfe]: Leonie: We can get a couple of bugs we are reviewing. ....
15:14:01 [richardschwerdtfe]: janina: you wanted to bring questions to this meeting to get wider opinion?
15:14:23 [richardschwerdtfe]: Leonie: I don't have access to the minutes from Tuesday so perhaps next week. Perhaps, Michael does?
15:15:11 [richardschwerdtfe]: Topic: bug 13368
15:15:25 [richardschwerdtfe]: Leonie: this needs to be tracked
15:15:28 [JF]: q+
15:15:54 [richardschwerdtfe]: janina: is this the same question we are raising from the text sub team to ask the group to reconsider the decision on alt?
15:16:09 [richardschwerdtfe]: JF: this does not have to do with meta generator
15:16:20 [richardschwerdtfe]: Leonie: this has more to do with generated content
15:16:47 [richardschwerdtfe]: JF: my understanding is that content generated by CSS is passed through the dom and sent to screen readers
15:17:38 [richardschwerdtfe]: JF: the problem, as I see it, is that using the before and after pseudo selectors is with putting an image on the screen. If you put in a PDF in a content management system an image is generated without alt text
15:17:47 [janina]: q?
15:17:51 [janina]: ack j
15:17:53 [richardschwerdtfe]: JF: If I were to generated text it would be read by a screen reader
15:18:01 [richardschwerdtfe]: JF: I feel this is a concern
15:18:20 [richardschwerdtfe]: janina: It seems that by how you describe it ...
15:18:35 [richardschwerdtfe]: Leonie: The bug triage team felt this was a problem to track
15:19:07 [richardschwerdtfe]: JF: I don't mind taking this bug on. My concern is that this was not reviewed by PF
15:19:31 [richardschwerdtfe]: JF: someone told me this was how it was used to be
15:20:06 [richardschwerdtfe]: Rich: we were talking about sprites for high contrast mode but I don't recall this one being discussed
15:20:26 [richardschwerdtfe]: Michael: Benjamin Hawkes Louis has extensive comments
15:20:56 [MichaelC]: s/Hawkes Louis/Hawkes-Lewis/
15:20:57 [richardschwerdtfe]: JF: the question really is what would be the preferred behavior?
15:21:42 [richardschwerdtfe]: JF: we had the means of generating sequences of numbers
15:21:58 [richardschwerdtfe]: JF: that to me was generated content not voiced by a screen reader
15:22:27 [richardschwerdtfe]: Michael: several ways of generating comments
15:22:49 [richardschwerdtfe]: Michael: we think these are CSS and not HTML issues but we need to look at this in the context of HTML
15:22:54 [richardschwerdtfe]: janina: that sounds correct
15:23:01 [richardschwerdtfe]: JF: so, what are we going to do
15:23:23 [richardschwerdtfe]: Michael: listing the problems is a starting point
15:23:43 [richardschwerdtfe]: Michael: Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis should be engageable in this
15:24:02 [richardschwerdtfe]: JF: It should be considered as a background image
15:24:10 [richardschwerdtfe]: q+
15:24:26 [richardschwerdtfe]: JF: It needs to be exosed to AT
15:24:38 [janina]: q?
15:24:42 [janina]: ack r
15:25:34 [richardschwerdtfe]: Rich: we can apply roles of images and an aria-label to the targeted element
15:25:48 [richardschwerdtfe]: JF: what about actionable elements?
15:26:25 [richardschwerdtfe]: janina: we don't need to solve this today?
15:26:48 [richardschwerdtfe]: janina: we don't need to solve this today
15:27:05 [richardschwerdtfe]: janina: we need to ramp up our ability to address this
15:27:14 [JF]: Q+
15:27:20 [richardschwerdtfe]: judy: If you want to add to the agenda to help Leonie filling out that matricx
15:27:30 [richardschwerdtfe]: s/matricx/matrix/
15:27:31 [janina]: ack j
15:27:43 [richardschwerdtfe]: JF: dow we have a mechanism in aria that acts as a toggle?
15:28:23 [richardschwerdtfe]: Rich: no
15:28:47 [richardschwerdtfe]: JF: would this be an aria.next candidate?
15:29:37 [richardschwerdtfe]: Rich: possibly
15:29:43 [janina]: q?
15:30:00 [richardschwerdtfe]: JF: perhaps a wysiwyg editor for this
15:30:24 [richardschwerdtfe]: leonie: the equivalent of and empty alt attribute
15:30:45 [richardschwerdtfe]: rich: we have an aria-hidden attribute
15:31:16 [richardschwerdtfe]: Michael: I don't know that we can convey all this with ARIA as you can have classes
15:31:25 [richardschwerdtfe]: Michael: assign the bug to John Foliot
15:32:05 [richardschwerdtfe]: Michael: I am willing to be on the subgroup: John, Michael, Leonie, Rich
15:32:14 [richardschwerdtfe]: Michael: John to lead the subgroup
15:32:27 [richardschwerdtfe]: Topic: Bug 13461
15:32:58 [MichaelC]: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=13461
15:33:58 [richardschwerdtfe]: janina: this is a substantive comment by a major user
15:35:14 [richardschwerdtfe]: janina: from a bug processing perspective this is already subsumed as the information included needs to be retained.
15:35:47 [richardschwerdtfe]: janina: we can ask that laura incorporate it into the change proposal supporting the changes for longdesc
15:35:55 [richardschwerdtfe]: Leonie: Yup!
15:36:27 [JF]: q+
15:36:35 [richardschwerdtfe]: Janina: we do not want to lose the comments from the Association of American publishers
15:37:00 [richardschwerdtfe]: Janina: we would ask laura to ask that this be referenced in the change proposal
15:37:04 [richardschwerdtfe]: Judy: I support this
15:37:43 [richardschwerdtfe]: Judy: so, this is closed because of duplication of another defect?
15:38:02 [richardschwerdtfe]: JF: this is not closed. it is listed as new. Jim thatcher supported it
15:38:43 [richardschwerdtfe]: JF: It is not really a bug but it is a comment. There is a tracker issue tagged to it
15:38:56 [richardschwerdtfe]: JF: I would support Laura linking to it
15:39:12 [richardschwerdtfe]: janina: I suspect it will be closed by procedure as it is already being taken up
15:39:22 [judy_alt]: q+
15:39:29 [JF]: ack JF
15:39:50 [JF]: ack J
15:40:06 [richardschwerdtfe]: Judy: the most relevant place is to attach it to an existing change proposal. We should add it in a survey
15:40:35 [richardschwerdtfe]: janina: this is a bridge we need to cross
15:41:24 [richardschwerdtfe]: janina: anything else on this?
15:41:51 [judy_alt]: s/the most relevant place is to attach it to an existing change proposal. We should add it in a survey/yes let's add it to the change proposal but the most relevant place would be to add it into survey when issue is resurveyed/
15:41:57 [richardschwerdtfe]: JF: perhaps a discussion with the chairs so that this does not get closed and lost.
15:42:33 [richardschwerdtfe]: JF: they like questions like this coming forward
15:42:42 [richardschwerdtfe]: judy: they are going to say put it in the survey
15:43:38 [richardschwerdtfe]: JF: this is supporting evidenced for our change proposal
15:44:03 [richardschwerdtfe]: judy: my comment earlier was to add this as relevant information to both the change proposal and the survey
15:44:33 [richardschwerdtfe]: janina: we should think in terms of how they construct the longdesc survey
15:44:43 [richardschwerdtfe]: judy: we can provide feedback on that
15:45:02 [richardschwerdtfe]: janina: we can perfect the old survey
15:46:08 [richardschwerdtfe]: Topic: Canvas Accessibility focus ring/text baseline
15:46:11 [richardschwerdtfe]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-canvas-api/2011JulSep/0272.html
15:46:24 [richardschwerdtfe]: http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/FocusRingTextBaseline
15:47:24 [LeonieWatson]: LeonieWatson has joined #html-a11y
15:47:46 [LeonieWatson]: Topic: Canvas update
15:49:27 [LeonieWatson]: RS: We've modified our code and made changes and we're hoping to get reviews by browser vendors on focus ring.
15:49:44 [LeonieWatson]: RS: Once that's done, we can submit a formal CP
15:50:37 [LeonieWatson]: RS: I don't want this to end up with another counter proposal getting in the way.
15:50:48 [LeonieWatson]: JS: Questions?
15:50:56 [LeonieWatson]: RS: Comments welcome, send them on over.
15:51:16 [LeonieWatson]: rrsagent, make minutes
15:51:16 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/08-html-a11y-minutes.html LeonieWatson
15:51:28 [LeonieWatson]: Topic: Media update
15:51:37 [LeonieWatson]: JF: Nothing to report.
15:51:57 [LeonieWatson]: JS: We're waiting for content to play with for navigation, and we have some poster issue stuff still to work on.
15:52:09 [LeonieWatson]: JF: The poster issue has been logged as a formal objection, which I need to look at.
15:52:34 [LeonieWatson]: JS: With navigation we need to see if our proposed ideas work?
15:52:51 [LeonieWatson]: JF: We should try to convene the group again to look at some of this.
15:53:15 [LeonieWatson]: JS: We could maybe take advantage of time together at TPAC.
15:53:19 [LeonieWatson]: Topic: Text update
15:53:34 [LeonieWatson]: JB: We haven't met for the last two weeks, but will meet next week. We have plenty to do.
15:54:29 [JF]: http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/LongdescZeroEdit
15:54:33 [LeonieWatson]: JF: We need to decide what we want to do about the response I sent to Jonas.
15:54:57 [LeonieWatson]: JB: Apologies John, I'm hoping to get to this soon.
15:55:06 [LeonieWatson]: JF: I'm hearing the chairs will want to make a move soon.
15:55:26 [LeonieWatson]: JB: They do understand we have responses pending. If we want to comment on Math, I think they'd welcome that.
15:55:39 [JF]: a/Math/Matt
15:56:15 [LeonieWatson]: Topic: Review of CSS
15:56:52 [LeonieWatson]: JS: Before TPAC we're trying to review the whole CSS3 spec.
15:57:23 [JF]: s/We need to decide what we want to do about the response I sent to Jonas./We need to decide what we want to do about the response I drafted for Jonas' CP
15:57:27 [LeonieWatson]: JS: We'll hopefully be able to bring PF and CSS WGs together at TPAC.
15:58:21 [LeonieWatson]: JF: I could try to reach out to Tab Atkins?
15:58:26 [LeonieWatson]: JS: Yep.
15:58:39 [LeonieWatson]: JS: There is another wiki and matrix page.
15:58:53 [janina]: http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/wiki/CSS/Spec_Review
15:59:04 [LeonieWatson]: q+
16:00:43 [richardschwerdtfe]: dropping off
16:00:56 [Zakim]: -Rich_Schwerdtfeger
16:01:08 [LeonieWatson]: LW: I can probably ask my team to help out and filter information back to the PFWG.
16:01:59 [LeonieWatson]: JF: There are two entries in the matrix: generated content and generated content page. You can put me down for those.
16:02:35 [LeonieWatson]: JS: If people outside of PF are able to help, write to Michael and he'll associate them with the module.
16:02:41 [LeonieWatson]: rrsagent, make minutes
16:02:41 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/08-html-a11y-minutes.html LeonieWatson
16:03:14 [Zakim]: -Léonie_Watson
16:03:35 [Zakim]: -Michael_Cooper
16:03:36 [Zakim]: -Judy
16:03:37 [Zakim]: -Janina_Sajka
16:03:46 [janina]: janina has left #html-a11y
16:04:08 [LeonieWatson]: rrsagent, make minutes
16:04:08 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/08-html-a11y-minutes.html LeonieWatson
16:04:29 [Zakim]: -JF
16:04:31 [Zakim]: WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)11:00AM has ended
16:04:33 [Zakim]: Attendees were Rich_Schwerdtfeger, Michael_Cooper, Judy, Janina_Sajka, Léonie_Watson, +1.650.468.aaaa, JF
16:06:21 [LeonieWatson]: rrsagent, make minutes
16:06:21 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/08-html-a11y-minutes.html LeonieWatson
16:57:05 [Judy]: Judy has joined #html-a11y
18:54:47 [MikeSmith_]: MikeSmith_ has joined #html-a11y
20:26:45 [MichaelC_]: MichaelC_ has joined #html-a11y