See also: IRC log
Giuseppe: comment on the agenda?
Giuseppe: I've done some work
this week. Not completely done, but almost.
... merging use cases and extracting requirements.
... First of all, I'd like to summarize our plan for this document.
... First, finalize this by the end of this month.
... Then include the rest of the IG in the discussion to bring further comments.
... Then we'll bring this document to the IG F2F for final review, and then document ready can be published.
... I tried to structure the document with a requirements section.
... I tried to link the use cases with the requirements.
... I'd like to ask everyone to go through the list of requirements and check associations.
... Propose updates when you're concerned about something.
... What is really important is the requirements, the use cases could perhaps be marked as informative.
... They are very important to understand the requirements, but maybe this section could be marked as informative.
... Then there's a section on security.
... I welcome any comment on the document.
... The whole document needs to be approved in the end, even if we approved all use cases. Open issues need to be addressed if they exist.
Giuseppe: If disagreement, we'll add a section to highlight the lack of consensus within the group.
Narm: Any idea how to indicate the priorities?
Giuseppe: good question. This
needs to be reflected somehow in the document. I don't have a
... One way could be to identify requirements by number and add a mapping table with 3 priority levels.
... in a dedicated section.
<narm_gadiraju> narm is the one who spoke
Matt: Thanks, great job. I had a little look earlier. Looking at requirements Application communication. We might clarify that it is for direct communication and not for communication through intermediaries.
Giuseppe: OK, I'd like to suggest you bring this comment to the mailing-list so that others can comment.
Giuseppe: About use cases, people will have to check mapping to requirements.
Jan: the doc includes links to
the original issue and use cases.
... and copies the text to the original issue.
... Do you want us to update the initial text or do you plan to remove this "Original Proposal" link afterwards?
Giuseppe: I plan to remove the
... Email discussions should be good to update text in use cases.
francois: @@@on requirements that would better be addressed at "conforming specifications"
Giuseppe: Got it, ok with the approach?
Kaz: yes, useful to add, could
perhaps be done in the working group that takes the
... Also mention the working group that is likely to take on the work.
... Francois comment is good but too advanced, I think.
... We don't really need that clarification for this requirements document.
Giuseppe: It's an easy change to
do, and I'm fine with it.
... Any other comment?
<trackbot> ACTION-69 -- Russell Berkoff to propose text to expand ISSUE-26 and ISSUE-28 to address Jan's comment -- due 2011-08-16 -- OPEN
Jan: it looks perfect. Very good
... Question is what do I do with the initial text?
Giuseppe: I'll deal with it. So we can close the issues and I'll merge the text Russell proposed in the Requirements document.
<scribe> ACTION: Giuseppe to update text of ISSUE-26 and ISSUE-28 based with text proposed by Russell in ACTION-69 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/08/16-webtv-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-71 - Update text of ISSUE-26 and ISSUE-28 based with text proposed by Russell in ACTION-69 [on Giuseppe Pascale - due 2011-08-23].
<trackbot> ACTION-69 Propose text to expand ISSUE-26 and ISSUE-28 to address Jan's comment closed
<trackbot> ISSUE-26 Home Network Enabled User Agent - Network Media Player closed
<trackbot> ISSUE-28 Home Network Enabled User-Agent - Network Media Controller closed
<trackbot> ACTION-66 -- Russell Berkoff to see if ISSUE-14 and ISSUE-30 can be merged -- due 2011-08-09 -- OPEN
Russell: ISSUE-14 is on services
not necessarily connected to a target in my view.
... whereas ISSUE-30 is really about support of devices and then services as a means to change the state of the device.
... I tried to give examples of differences in my email.
Giuseppe: My impression from the description of ISSUE-14 is that it's not particularly either stateless or stateful, so I would think your use case is included here.
Russell: ISSUE-14 does not have a
strong notion of discovering a device, rather a notion of
discovering a service.
... whereas ISSUE-30 is more bound to a device, and then discovery of services on that device.
Giuseppe: I would be fine to keep
ISSUE-30 in as a way to clarify what use cases we're trying to
cover, even though I think it's pretty generic.
... It will probably generate the same requirements though.
Bob: I agree with you Giuseppe. The distinction between discovering devices and discovering services on devices would generate the same requirements.
Giuseppe: I would like to improve
the use case that is in. Could you perhaps suggest a better
wording of use case 1?
... Wait, I was not looking at the right issue.
... I believe the action was mis-recorded, it's ISSUE-4, not ISSUE-14.
... So U1 in the requirements document.
... We can probably extend the use case a little bit, could you look into it?
Russell: OK, I'll have a look.
Giuseppe: Conclusion is to look
at U1 for ISSUE-4 and propose text if it's not enough.
... We'll close action and issue next week.
Giuseppe: One is gap. That's
covered with use cases and requirements document.
... Another item is to categorize all the use cases/requirements.
... I'd be happy to hear your opinions on this.
... If they are equally important, we can skip this categorisation phase.
... Looking at the different options we have in the charter. [going through the list].
... I need input from the group here.
... i.e. shoot for option 6, with liaisons to some groups perhaps.
Matt: We already know that DAP is to take device discovery. [lots of echo]. I would suggest that's a main chunk of what we're trying to achieve, so moving to there sounds good.
Giuseppe: Right, that's exactly
the kind of input I'm looking for, so we can propose
recommendations to W3C Director.
... It seems a good idea to start with the DAP group since it's already listed in the new charter, and then check from there what needs to be defined on top of that later on.
Clarke: In order for the result of the work to be consistent, it may make sense to put all our requirements into one working group.
Giuseppe: I'm not sure if it's
the best thing to do.
... If requirements on Media Pipeline TF impact on the video, perhaps the HTML WG is better for that.
... But some of our requirements, we may suggest to have another WG handle them.
Clarke: How do you maintain consistency if work is carried on in different groups?
<Clarke> That was Clarke talking, not Bob
Francois: @@W3C Process is meant to address this.
Giuseppe: yes, and too many
deliverables or too broad a scope may hamper the progress of a
... for the Media Pipeline TF, it seems more focused on extensions to the video tag, so HTML WG sounds the right place for discussions.
Francois: yes, but not necessarily, it could be done in a separate WG.
[scribe missed last exchange]
<Clarke> My point was that if anyone is concerned about alignment between working groups they should participate in both working groups.
Giuseppe: On the WG part, I would
propose to give the document as it is to DAP, as it seems to be
matching their charter.
... When it comes to categorize use cases/requirements, I would say it falls in the category "new requirements for a WG", so basically we're good.
... That's my proposal.
... Feel free to comment. The priority discussion is still open.
Bob: I have a suggestion on
priorities. Set of requirements that represent the minimal
amount of work you'd need to do to enable scenarios.
... That would create a mandatory set of requirements, and a "larger" set of requirements, leading to an easy distinction.
Giuseppe: yes, sounds like a good
... Some of the requirements may require more investigation, such as migration scenarios for instance, others may be easier to do. I'm fine with your distinction.
Clarke: we could ask someone to
volunteer to take a first stab.
... s/someone/a few people/
... to have something to start from and see if adjustment is needed.
Giuseppe: Yes, I'd like to ask
people here to categorize the requirements, so we can review
that next week.
... Fine with everybody?
Kaz: Question about relationship
... First priority is MUST statements, right?
Giuseppe: I was more thinking
about a time schedule rather than MUST/SHOULD.
... We need base functionality to enable basic home networking scenarios, then more to build on top of it.
Kaz: Yes, it could be done later, fine to proceed with priority in the TF.
Giuseppe: I think these are two different things, actually, so I would proceed with priorities even in the final report.
Giuseppe: Please send me (or to the mailing-list) a list of which requirements should be in which category, and I'll make a summary next week for discussion.
[Giuseppe and Russell about status of email exchanges]
<giuseppe> "Provide a mean for applications to control some of the parameters that may be needed to be expose to support well-established home network protocols. A more detailed analysis is needed to identify such parameters and a way to specify them in a transport agnostic way"
Giuseppe: we need to identify
requirements, we cannot be too vague. My suggestion would be to
look at precise requirements so that a WG can action these
... We could phrase as "we've identified a gap here on transport headers, and the WG should look into these"
Russell: It's a fairly broad topic, so simple requirements might help.
Giuseppe: It wasn't clear to me what the sentence covered.
Russell: It used to say DLNA, but there was a request to remove mentions of DLNA.
Giuseppe: but the use case is not
... I'm not suggesting to change the meaning, merely to clarify the requirement.
Russell: The point of the response was that the headers provide info for the user-agent, the application and playback engine.
Giuseppe: Again, I'm not
suggesting to change the meaning, but to clarify and point the
WG to that saying it needs to be addressed.
... Probably easier if you reply on the actual text.
... Same for the other two points.
... Let's conclude on the mailing-list.
Russell: How do people in the TF feel about compatibility forward or backward?
Jan: Could you provide examples?
Russell: Dealing with older user-agents, for instance.
Jan: sounds like a core architectural design point.
<Clarke> I think that was Jan, not Clarke
Giuseppe: I don't think it's part of a spec, more a point for the community to check how they can support the feature in old browsers.
Russell: If people feel this way, ok to dropping.
[scribe missed precise comments because of echo]
Giuseppe: ok, running out of time, closing call now. Have a good day!
<kaz> [ btw, some clarification for Clarke's concern: 1. we should not invent "wheels" again, 2. we have Hypertext Coordination Group formed by WG/IG Chairs for inter-group coordination, 3 if needed we could consider some meta mechanism like SMIL, RDF and MMI to integrate several specifications consistently ]