HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference

13 Jul 2011

See also: IRC log


Janina, John_Foliot, Sean_Hayes, silvia, frankolivier, Judy


<trackbot> Date: 13 July 2011

<scribe> Meeting: HTML-A11Y telecon

<scribe> Scribe: Janina_Sajka

<scribe> agenda: this

W3C Web & TV Workshop http://www.w3.org/2011/09/webtv/

jf: Appears there's a total of 4 days of meeting
... 2 days of the Workshop at ComCast, followed by 2 days of the W3C IG on Web & TV
... Noting major names attending
... Asking if Sean will attend?

Sean: Not me, but likely someone from Microsoft.

jf: I'll see about attending
... Thinking Chaals may attend

Paused Media: Continuing Discussion

jf: ARIA-Describedby being proposed for several similar situations

jf; Had extended conversation about the possibilities during Text Subteam past Monday

jf: Only way is to render on screen

janina: But, that can be the result of a user action

jf: So, we need a scheme that can:
... A, Indicate there's more data -- discoverability
... B: Render that additional data on screen on user action --- perhaps right click?

<JF> http://blog.ginader.de/dev/jquery/longdesc/examples/webaim/index.php

jf: jf: This example renders an icon in the corner, clicking on it pulls descript into an iframe
... This isn't the answer for us, but it illustrates the kind of thing we need

janina: So, going back to our old ARIA-Describedby solution,
... Can we use something like that, perhaps via right-mouse click?

jf: We need a way to make the availability of that info discoverable. Second, we need a way for users to choose to consume that info.
... Whatever the solution, we need a rich solution, we need to support markup in the content
... So, it's very similar to the longdesc situation
... So, notmeaning to put anyone on the spot, Frank any thoughts?

fo: No thought yet

<silvia> I maintain to think that the solution is a kind of shadow dom

<silvia> http://glazkov.com/2011/01/14/what-the-heck-is-shadow-dom/ <- explains the feature nicely

jb: Noting some good discussions with W3C team around these issues recently

jf: Noting the note from Dmitri posted by Silvia
... Asking for a quick recap

<silvia> "Welcome to the twilight DOM — a chunk of document that’s accessible by traversal but not rendered on the page."

sp: Think it explains exactly what we want
... He's doing it through js, but I'm pretty sure we can do it in the browser
... Believe our ARIA-Describedby strategy will eventually work
... But, this isn't a problem with the spec, the problem is implementation

janina: The spec piece is the markup we're proposing, if we're confident browsers can make that discoverable and show it on screen when users ask for it, we're good

jf: The key is that it needs to become text on screen

sp: But screen readers are already processing things that are not on screen
... Think the same mechanism should work here
... Don't think we can pinpoint any issues until we have implementations to look at

jf: Noting again the similarities with longdesc and noting my long post about to go to list about that, inviting people's feedback

zkim, next item

Hierarchical Navigation: Progress Checkin

jf: Not sure where we stand

janina: I was unable to get Marcus to today's call, still an action on me
... Also, we had the discussion whether or not a level attribute was needed

jf: Trying to understand our two proposals
... One is nested list

<silvia> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=13184

jf: And, I think Frank and Sean are proposing the level attribute

sp: Don't particularly care how we solve it, we do now have the bugs I just pasted in, so we're awaiting an editor response
... Suggest we just wait at this point
... Philip did suggest an algorithm

fo: Philip did a good job of summarizing, I'm satisfied with that
... Question now on how this looks inside the file

jf: So, if I understand ... Either scheme works, let's see what emerges as the proposal from the editor and respond?
... I'm not concerned how we solve, just that a solution is available and articulated in the spec
... It's important that this is in the HTML 5 spec, else I've no problem waiting.

<silvia> algorithm is explained in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2011Jul/0119.html

jf: Is that where we're going?

fo: Sounds right

jf: Is there any indication of when we might hear from the editor?

sp: Believe there's a deadline for response on bugs. We should track the bugs.

jf: Noting there are no keywords on this bug, we should add a11y, a11ytf, and media
... I'll do that
... sp: Is the issue open?

janina: #163 was closed without prejudice

sp: Could file a bug suggesting this approach

<silvia> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=12794

sp: Perhaps should be annotated with our additional info

janina: Yes, that there's a way to know that additional data is available for a particular video
... And a way to display that additional data on screen on user request

jf: Last comment was June 14, but we've made progress, and we should show that in the bug tracking

Actions Review http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/open

jf: Think we're good
... Old action #109 on Sean, can you check?

sh: OK

janina: Asking if we expect agenda next week?

jf: We should check in on our open issues, even if our meetings go a bit short
... We can decide early next week, Monday?

janina: sounds good

jf: Any other business?

<silvia> note, this is also related: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=12228

jf: Perhaps should look at Bugzilla for media keyword, just to make sure we're not missing something

janina: good idea

jf: Perhaps we should ask Thursday's call if Bug Subteam can check for any remaining media bugs

janina: good

jf: Anything else?

Other Business?

be done

Summary of Action Items

[End of minutes]

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Default Present: Janina, John_Foliot, Sean_Hayes, silvia, frankolivier, Judy
Present: Janina John_Foliot Sean_Hayes silvia frankolivier Judy
Found Date: 13 Jul 2011
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2011/07/13-html-a11y-minutes.html
People with action items: 

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