21:26:11 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #html-a11y
21:26:11 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/07/13-html-a11y-irc
21:26:13 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
21:26:13 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #html-a11y
21:26:15 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 2119
21:26:15 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_PFWG(A11Y)5:30PM scheduled to start in 4 minutes
21:26:16 <trackbot> Meeting: HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
21:26:16 <trackbot> Date: 13 July 2011
21:26:26 <Zakim> WAI_PFWG(A11Y)5:30PM has now started
21:26:33 <Zakim> +??P4
21:26:44 <janina> zakim, ??P4 is Janina
21:26:44 <Zakim> +Janina; got it
21:26:54 <janina> zakim, this will be 2119
21:26:54 <Zakim> ok, janina; I see WAI_PFWG(A11Y)5:30PM scheduled to start in 4 minutes
21:27:06 <janina> rrsagent, make log public
21:27:31 <janina> Meeting: HTML-A11Y telecon
21:27:31 <janina> Chair:  John_Foliot
21:27:31 <janina> Scribe: Janina_Sajka
21:27:31 <janina> agenda: this
21:27:31 <janina> agenda+ W3C Web & TV Workshop http://www.w3.org/2011/09/webtv/
21:27:32 <janina> agenda+ Paused Media: Continuing Discussion
21:27:34 <janina> agenda+ Hierarchical Navigation: Progress Checkin
21:27:36 <janina> agenda+ Actions Review http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/open
21:27:38 <janina> agenda+ Other Business?
21:27:40 <janina> agenda+ be done
21:27:51 <janina> zakim, agenda?
21:27:51 <Zakim> I see 6 items remaining on the agenda:
21:27:52 <Zakim> 1. W3C Web & TV Workshop http://www.w3.org/2011/09/webtv/ [from janina]
21:27:55 <Zakim> 2. Paused Media: Continuing Discussion [from janina]
21:27:56 <Zakim> 3. Hierarchical Navigation: Progress Checkin [from janina]
21:27:59 <Zakim> 4. Actions Review http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/open [from janina]
21:28:00 <Zakim> 5. Other Business? [from janina]
21:28:00 <Zakim> 6. be done [from janina]
21:31:07 <Sean> Sean has joined #html-a11y
21:33:47 <JF> zakim, who's here?
21:33:47 <Zakim> I notice WAI_PFWG(A11Y)5:30PM has restarted
21:33:48 <Zakim> On the phone I see Janina, John_Foliot, Sean_Hayes
21:33:50 <Zakim> On IRC I see Sean, Zakim, RRSAgent, janina, JF, trackbot, [tm]
21:33:53 <judy> judy has joined #html-a11y
21:36:40 <silvia> silvia has joined #html-a11y
21:38:57 <Zakim> +silvia
21:39:13 <silvia> zakim, mute me
21:39:13 <Zakim> silvia should now be muted
21:39:47 <silvia> zakim, who is here?
21:39:47 <Zakim> On the phone I see Janina, John_Foliot, Sean_Hayes, silvia (muted)
21:39:47 <janina> zakim, take up item 1
21:39:48 <Zakim> On IRC I see silvia, judy, Sean, Zakim, RRSAgent, janina, JF, trackbot, [tm]
21:39:50 <Zakim> agendum 1. "W3C Web & TV Workshop http://www.w3.org/2011/09/webtv/" taken up [from janina]
21:40:45 <janina> jf: Appears there's a total of 4 days of meeting
21:41:02 <janina> jf: 2 days of the Workshop at ComCast, followed by 2 days of the W3C IG on Web & TV
21:41:10 <janina> jf: Noting major names attending
21:41:28 <frankolivier> frankolivier has joined #html-a11y
21:41:30 <janina> jf: Asking if Sean will attend?
21:41:40 <janina> Sean: Not me, but likely someone from Microsoft.
21:42:52 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
21:42:54 <janina> jf: I'll see about attending
21:43:17 <janina> jf: Thinking Chaas may attend
21:43:37 <JF> s/Chaas/Chaals
21:43:38 <janina> zakim, next item
21:43:38 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Paused Media: Continuing Discussion" taken up [from janina]
21:44:31 <janina> jf: ARIA-Describedby being proposed for several similar situations
21:44:53 <janina> jf; Had extended conversation about the possibilities during Text Subteam past Monday
21:45:15 <janina> jf: Only way is to render on screen
21:45:39 <janina> janina: But, that can be the result of a user action
21:45:54 <janina> jf: So, we need a scheme that can:
21:46:06 <janina> jf: A, Indicate there's more data -- discoverability
21:46:24 <janina> jf: B: Render that additional data on screen on user action --- perhaps right click?
21:46:28 <JF> http://blog.ginader.de/dev/jquery/longdesc/examples/webaim/index.php 
21:47:06 <janina> jf: jf: This example renders an icon in the corner, clicking on it pulls descript into an iframe
21:47:14 <frankolivier> zakim, [Microsoft] is frankolivier
21:47:14 <Zakim> +frankolivier; got it
21:47:26 <janina> jf: This isn't the answer for us, but it illustrates the kind of thing we need
21:48:05 <janina> zakim, sho's here?
21:48:05 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, janina.
21:48:12 <janina> zakim, who's here?
21:48:12 <Zakim> On the phone I see Janina, John_Foliot, Sean_Hayes, silvia (muted), frankolivier
21:48:15 <Zakim> On IRC I see frankolivier, silvia, judy, Sean, Zakim, RRSAgent, janina, JF, trackbot, [tm]
21:49:13 <janina> janina: So, going back to our old ARIA-Describedby solution,
21:49:24 <janina> janina: Can we use something like that, perhaps via right-mouse click?
21:49:59 <janina> jf: We need a way to make the availability of that info discoverable. Second, we need a way for users to choose to consume that info.
21:50:53 <janina> jf: Whatever the solution, we need a rich solution, we need to support markup in the content
21:51:07 <janina> jf: So, it's very similar to the longdesc situation
21:51:30 <janina> jf: So, notmeaning to put anyone on the spot, Frank any thoughts?
21:51:36 <janina> fo: No thought yet
21:51:43 <silvia> I maintain to think that the solution is a kind of shadow dom
21:51:46 <Zakim> +Judy
21:53:04 <silvia> http://glazkov.com/2011/01/14/what-the-heck-is-shadow-dom/ <- explains the feature nicely
21:53:43 <janina> jb: Noting some good discussions with W3C team around these issues recently
21:55:38 <janina> jf: Noting the note from Dmitri posted by Silvia
21:55:41 <silvia> zakim, unmute me
21:55:41 <Zakim> silvia should no longer be muted
21:55:43 <janina> jf: Asking for a quick recap
21:55:50 <silvia> "Welcome to the twilight DOM — a chunk of document that’s accessible by traversal but not rendered on the page."
21:56:10 <janina> sp: Think it explains exactly what we want
21:56:33 <janina> sp: He's doing it through js, but I'm pretty sure we can do it in the browser
21:57:18 <janina> sp: Believe our ARIA-Describedby strategy will eventually work
21:57:40 <janina> sp: But, this isn't a problem with the spec, the problem is implementation
21:58:58 <janina> janina: The spec piece is the markup we're proposing, if we're confident browsers can make that discoverable and show it on screen when users ask for it, we're good
21:59:09 <janina> jf: The key is that it needs to become text on screen
21:59:31 <janina> sp: But screen readers are already processing things that are not on screen
22:00:03 <janina> sp: Think the same mechanism should work here
22:00:15 <janina> sp: Don't think we can pinpoint any issues until we have implementations to look at
22:00:23 <silvia> zakim, mute me
22:00:23 <Zakim> silvia should now be muted
22:01:17 <janina> jf: Noting again the similarities with longdesc and noting my long post about to go to list about that, inviting people's feedback
22:01:20 <janina> zkim, next item
22:01:29 <janina> zakim, next item
22:01:29 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Hierarchical Navigation: Progress Checkin" taken up [from janina]
22:01:41 <janina> jf: Not sure where we stand
22:02:47 <janina> janina: I was unable to get Marcus to today's call, still an action on me
22:03:01 <janina> janina: Also, we had the discussion whether or not a level attribute was needed
22:03:32 <janina> jf: Trying to understand our two proposals
22:03:38 <janina> jf: One is nested list
22:03:40 <silvia> zakim, unmute me
22:03:40 <Zakim> silvia should no longer be muted
22:03:50 <silvia> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=13184
22:03:51 <janina> jf: And, I think Frank and Sean are proposing the level attribute
22:04:28 <janina> sp: Don't particularly care how we solve it, we do now have the bugs I just pasted in, so we're awaiting an editor response
22:05:06 <janina> sp: Suggest we just wait at this point
22:05:12 <janina> sp: Philip did suggest an algorithm
22:05:57 <silvia> zakim, mute me
22:05:57 <Zakim> silvia should now be muted
22:06:02 <janina> fo: Philip did a good job of summarizing, I'm satisfied with that
22:06:19 <janina> fo: Question now on how this looks inside the file
22:06:50 <janina> jf: So, if I understand ... Either scheme works, let's see what emerges as the proposal from the editor and respond?
22:07:11 <janina> jf: I'm not concerned how we solve, just that a solution is available and articulated in the spec
22:08:01 <janina> jf: It's important that this is in the HTML 5 spec, else I've no problem waiting.
22:08:02 <silvia> algorithm is explained in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2011Jul/0119.html
22:08:08 <janina> jf: Is that where we're going?
22:08:11 <janina> fo: Sounds right
22:09:03 <silvia> zakim, unmute me
22:09:03 <Zakim> silvia should no longer be muted
22:09:07 <janina> jf: Is there any indication of when we might hear from the editor?
22:09:28 <janina> sp: Believe there's a deadline for response on bugs. We should track the bugs.
22:09:57 <silvia> zakim, mute me
22:09:57 <Zakim> silvia should now be muted
22:10:14 <janina> jf: Noting there are no keywords on this bug, we should add a11y, a11ytf, and media
22:10:30 <janina> jf: I'll do that
22:12:48 <silvia> zakim, unmute me
22:12:48 <Zakim> silvia should no longer be muted
22:14:06 <janina> jf: sp: Is the issue open?
22:14:14 <janina> janina:#163 was closed without prejudice
22:14:35 <janina> sp: Could file a bug suggesting this approach
22:15:19 <silvia> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=12794
22:16:43 <janina> sp: Perhaps should be annotated with our additional info
22:16:58 <janina> janina: Yes, that there's a way to know that additional data is available for a particular video
22:17:09 <janina> janina: And a way to display that additional data on screen on user request
22:17:47 <janina> jf: Last comment was June 14, but we've made progress, and we should show that in the bug tracking
22:18:07 <janina> zakim, next item
22:18:07 <Zakim> agendum 4. "Actions Review http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/open" taken up [from janina]
22:18:32 <janina> jf: Think we're good
22:19:07 <janina> jf: Old action #109 on Sean, can you check?
22:19:10 <janina> sh: OK
22:19:47 <janina> janina: Asking if we expect agenda next week?
22:19:59 <janina> jf: We should check in on our open issues, even if our meetings go a bit short
22:20:26 <janina> jf: We can decide early next week, Monday?
22:20:30 <janina> janina: sounds good
22:20:39 <janina> jf: Any other business?
22:20:42 <silvia> note, this is also related: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=12228
22:21:48 <janina> jf: Perhaps should look at Bugzilla for media keyword, just to make sure we're not missing something
22:21:52 <janina> janina: good idea
22:23:25 <janina> jf: Perhaps we should ask Thursday's call if Bug Subteam can check for any remaining media bugs
22:23:27 <janina> janina: good
22:23:33 <janina> jf: Anything else?
22:23:38 <janina> zakim, next item
22:23:38 <Zakim> agendum 5. "Other Business?" taken up [from janina]
22:23:40 <Zakim> -silvia
22:23:47 <janina> zakim, close item 5
22:23:47 <Zakim> agendum 5, Other Business?, closed
22:23:48 <Zakim> I see 1 item remaining on the agenda:
22:23:48 <Zakim> 6. be done [from janina]
22:23:51 <janina> zakim, next item
22:23:51 <Zakim> agendum 6. "be done" taken up [from janina]
22:23:55 <Zakim> -Sean_Hayes
22:24:09 <Zakim> -frankolivier
22:24:14 <judy> zakim, who's here?
22:24:14 <Zakim> On the phone I see Janina, John_Foliot, Judy
22:24:15 <Zakim> On IRC I see frankolivier, silvia, judy, Sean, Zakim, RRSAgent, janina, JF, trackbot, [tm]
22:24:30 <janina> zakim, bye
22:24:30 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees were Janina, John_Foliot, Sean_Hayes, silvia, frankolivier, Judy
22:24:30 <Zakim> Zakim has left #html-a11y
22:24:37 <janina> rrsagent, make minutes
22:24:37 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/07/13-html-a11y-minutes.html janina
22:25:07 <janina> rrsagent, make log public
22:25:13 <janina> rrsagent, make minutes
22:25:13 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/07/13-html-a11y-minutes.html janina
23:07:24 <janina> janina has left #html-a11y