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<trackbot> Date: 06 July 2011
<scribe> Meeting: HTML-A11Y telecon
<scribe> Scribe: John_Foliot
<scribe> agenda: this
<janina> trackbot start meeting
janina, I've already loaded the conference
'it's all ready
<janina> Hey, John! Big tech problems here today!
<janina> Looks like #12 belongs to #11
<silvia> frankolivier: we are currently discussing the state of navigation - do you want to join
<frankolivier> OMW - finishing up another meeting
FO: the concept of using lists seems simple enough
SF 1st level navigation have cue points with chapters
in the spec we already have chapters, and they are defined as having cues as navigation points, but we were looking at how to add multi-level navigation
which in HTML is typically done with lists
so using a<ul> that starts at the chapter cues
SH if something has a sub-time stamp, a duration that starts and ends inside of the cue, then it is a child point
JS: this could go down to 6 levels?
SH: as many as you like
with this we need to get more agreement on what the HTML should look like if we come up with something new
<silvia> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Media_Navigation#Example_markup_with_3_hierarchical_levels
SP: agree, we already have
navigation mechanism tools, we should build upon them
... have done a markup example to show how this might look
like
FO: one cue opject for every first level chapter, and then for writing nav custom controls would need to parse the other levels as well
SP: it would be rendered into the shadow DOM
jusing JS you would probably need an HTML fragment parser
FO: 2 problems to solve, give the screen reader some insight of what the various objects are in the queue
for web devs who want to develop their own controls, they will need to do the parsing themselves
SP: they would create the snippet (list) themselves, and then hand that to the mutable text track creation, it gets handled as any other regular track file
FO: the question is more around when user is not using a screen reader
let's say you want to show the full index of multi-levels on the side of the video region
getting the first level Chapters is pretty easy, but parsing the other levels is more complex
FO: it's awkward to have the first level exposed in one way, and the other levels exposed at another way
+Q
(discussion of how screen readers deal with navigation)
Frank will develop some code examples, and janina will invite the Daisy folk to help us review
FO; I s multi-level navigation an absolute requirement?
(JF and janina echo yes at the same time)
JS: We need to ensure that the spec is able to support these user-requirements, we've not discussed implementation details
<silvia> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Media_Navigation#3._Single-track.2C_multiple_cues
WCAG Guideline 2.4 "Navigable" http://www.w3.org/TR/UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20/navigation-mechanisms.html
1.3.1 Info and Relationships: Information, structure, and relationships conveyed through presentation can be programmatically determined or are available in text. (Level A)
http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/REC-WCAG20-20081211/#content-structure-separation
1.3.2 Meaningful Sequence: When the sequence in which content is presented affects its meaning, a correct reading sequence can be programmatically determined. (Level A)
+Q
<silvia> I've not given up on aria-describedby, but I think at this point we will get nowhere unless we do an implementation and prove it one way or the other
discussion of perhaps usiing meta-data file for specifying multiple images "stills" (chapter points)
JS: a few weeks back, we discussied the longer text description and the video is paused, we were trying to figure out how this was processed
SP: it depends on the screen reader user, so we need to let the end-user decide
so we almost need to think of *all* extended descriptions as potentiallly going beyond fixed time-lines
so Silvia has taken this to the iAccessible list, and it is under discussion there
from HTML however everything else is in place
JS: agree, after that it is user-agent behavior
<silvia> zaim, mute me
http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/128
Follow-up on @transcript attribute on Silvia
<silvia> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=12964
ACTION - 128 closed
<trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - -
<silvia> close action-128
<trackbot> ACTION-128 Follow-up on @transcript attribute closed
queack sil
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.136 of Date: 2011/05/12 12:01:43 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/jong/jin/ Succeeded: s/jin/join/ No ScribeNick specified. Guessing ScribeNick: JF Found Scribe: John_Foliot Default Present: John_Foliot, +44.844.800.aaaa, +28012aabb, silvia, Sean_Hayes, frankolivier Present: John_Foliot +44.844.800.aaaa +28012aabb silvia Sean_Hayes frankolivier Found Date: 06 Jul 2011 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2011/07/06-html-a11y-minutes.html People with action items: WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]