See also: IRC log
<giuseppep> francois are you online?
<giuseppep> actions?
<giuseppep> issues?
<francois> Hi giuseppe, playing with RRSAgent? ;)
<trackbot> Date: 24 May 2011
<scribe> scribe: Kaz
<scribe> scribenick: kaz
<giuseppep> http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/HNTF/Agenda_Telco_24th_May_2011
giuseppep: how to
structure?
... one proposal is from Jan
... Jean-Claude provided high-level ones
... while Russel gave rather specific ones
igarashi: agree with Jan
... details and high-level topics should be discussed
separately
giugeppep: tx
Matt: use cases I proposed is application level
<giuseppep> ack
fd: adding actual scenario would be useful
<rberkoff> cant dial-in???
giuseppep: would be useful to better understanding
<rberkoff> no conf code was posted?
giuseppep: let's continue
giuseppe: (to Russel)
... we'll separate the use case document into two parts,
generic part and specific part
giuseppep: people have different
image for some terms
... is our description generic enough?
... opinion?
Clarke: application is a good
term
... another for home network would be service
giuseppep: HTML5 type of
definition of "document" might be confusing
... we could use "web application" as a term
... we need to clarify what "application" means
clarke: can try
fd: we prefer to use
"application"
... rather than "document"
... I personally prefer "web application"
... if we use the same definition (as HTML5), it would be easy
to map our use cases to HTML5
giuseppep: would suggest your definition to the ML and share your ideas with everybody
[ +1 w/ giuseppep ]
<giuseppep> http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/track/products/2
<giuseppep> http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/HNTF/Home_Network_TF_Discussions/ServiceMigration
<giuseppep> issue-7?
<trackbot> ISSUE-7 -- Use case: Service Migration -- open
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/track/issues/7
giuseppep: Jean-Claude's use
case
... "document" could describe "application"
<inserted> giuseppep: this originally included two pieces, and another part is issue-15
<giuseppep> http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/HNTF/Home_Network_TF_Discussions/DocumentMigration
issue-15?
<trackbot> ISSUE-15 -- Document Migration -- raised
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/track/issues/15
kaz: regarding issue-7, the
description is confusing
... "music" is rather capability/feature
... "device" should be Audio, TV, music player, computer,
etc.
giuseppep: agree the description is confusing
jan: two questions
... 1 is example implementations
... 2 is that this is similar to multi-screen use case
giuseppep: that's something "document migration" use case would capture
russell: same concern as
Kaz
... device capability like camera, etc. is captured by this
"service migration"?
... how is application captured?
giuseppep: "how" is not yet discussed
russell: services use documents
giuseppep: if your application
use audio on some device which doesn't have audio capability,
it doesn't work
... I proposed to JCD to rephrase the description
MattH: concrete scenario would be useful to me
<dcorvoysier> The way it is described, the web page itself seems to be transferred from one device to the other ...
[ yeah... ]
giuseppep: talking with radio could be one use case scenario
<francois> [ The definition of "application state" looks very application specific and difficult to generalize. ]
igarashi: relationship between 7
and 15
... now got it
... second question is that this is not migration, but just
using multiple devices
giuseppep: "widget running on some device and an application on another device" might be what JCD is thinking
<inserted> ... how do you move state from device to device?
<Clarke> Migration seems to be service delivery with "multiple devices" with state
<Clarke> With a video, for example, you could retain the playback position
<giuseppep> ISSUE-16?
<trackbot> ISSUE-16 -- Web and Device Interworking -- raised
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/track/issues/16
jan: (explains the use case)
[[
A personal device list available in the home is invoked on any web page and devices in the list can be used for consuming the contents on a web page, e.g. video clip on a page can be redirected to a TV or recorded on a network attached storage.
]]
<Zakim> kaz, you wanted to suggest "state transition from one device to another"
jan: you can see some example
JavaScript scripts
... comments welcome
giuseppep: any comments?
-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-web-and-tv/2011May/0050.html Jan's message
giuseppep: people need some more
time
... my comment is that more examples are needed
jan: ok
fd: difference between device and service?
giuseppep: some use case differentiate device and service
jan: different devices have different capability
fd: do you need list of
devices?
... maybe we can say "this service and that service work on a
device"
<mav_> that was clarke
clarke: don't think PCs care
about "what capability is working on which device" but devices
themselves do care
... "service" is more appropriate to "devices"
<francois> [yes, we could use both "device" and "service" in the use cases]
clarke: not sure we have to have
one specific word
... a "device" contains something
<igarashi> +q
giuseppep: UPnP like
definition?
... use cases from user perspective
MattH: user centric view vs. device centric view
jan: how can we use the terms with technical consistency
giuseppep: I can provide some initial idea, and you can provide comments
igarashi: using "device" might be
good
... but how to handle "service" on the Internet?
giuseppep: it's important to have
terms list to share people's views
... we'll use same terminology once we've got consensus
<inserted> UPnP Home Network UA
<giuseppep> ISSUE-17?
<trackbot> ISSUE-17 -- Use Case: DLNA/UPnP Home Network Enabled User-Agent (Browser) -- raised
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/track/issues/17
giuseppep: more generic use case description would be better
russell: reference to specific
technology?
... can remove DLNA/UPnP
giuseppep: this will go back to
the previous discussion
... you need some generic framework to let devices interact
with each other
russell: ok. will restructure the description
<igarashi> +q
giuseppep: we've decided we'll split the use case documents into generic part and specific part, so you can say "we'd support this specific service"
jan: several possible scenarios
giuseppep: we could include both (1) list of generic use cases and (2) list of specific use cases
<giuseppep> ?
<inserted> ... you can generate another use case if you need
jan: will restructure my use case
igarashi: use cases should be use
specific
... detailed procedure on each use case would be helpful for
people to understand
+q to suggest we have optional "concrete scenario" which includes detailed procedure on each use case description
jan: if we adapt a specific use case, which includes user process steps, it would be fine
<giuseppep> http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/HNTF
jan: btw, could you please send the conf code publicly?
giuseppep: it's available on the Wiki page
<giuseppep> http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/HNTF/Telco
jan: need info on IRC channel etc. as well
giuseppep: also available on the Wiki page
[ adjourned ]
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.136 of Date: 2011/05/12 12:01:43 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/fd:/Clarke:/ Succeeded: i/http:/topic: open actions Succeeded: s/application/"application"/ Succeeded: i/http:/giuseppep: this originally included two pieces, and another part is issue-15 Succeeded: s/russel:/russell:/ Succeeded: s/... how do you move state from device to device?// Succeeded: i/Migration seems/... how do you move state from device to device? Succeeded: s/comments is/comment is/ Succeeded: i/ISSUE-17?/UPnP Home Network UA Succeeded: i/jan: will/... you can generate another use case if you need Succeeded: s/Web and TV Interest Group Teleconference/Home Networking Task Force Teleconference/ Succeeded: s/JanL?// Found Scribe: Kaz Inferring ScribeNick: kaz Found ScribeNick: kaz WARNING: Replacing previous Present list. (Old list: Kazuyuki, MarkVickers, francois, +46.1.07.13.aaaa, JanLindquist, DongHyun, DongHyun_Kang, +82.10.26.09.aabb, Matt_Hammond, +81.90.146.3.aacc, Tatsuya_Igarashi, Giuseppe, aizu, MattH, Clarke?, Bjorn_Bringert, Russel, dcorvoysier, +358.405.74aadd, Panu_Markkanen) Use 'Present+ ... ' if you meant to add people without replacing the list, such as: <dbooth> Present+ Kazuyuki, Mark_Vickers, Francois, JanLindquist, DongHyun_Kang, +82.10.26.09.aabb, Matt_Hammond, Tatsuya_Igarashi, Giuseppe, Aizu, MattH, Clarke, Russel, David_Corvoysier, Panu_Markkanen Present: Kazuyuki Mark_Vickers Francois JanLindquist DongHyun_Kang +82.10.26.09.aabb Matt_Hammond Tatsuya_Igarashi Giuseppe Aizu MattH Clarke Russel David_Corvoysier Panu_Markkanen Regrets: JeanClaude Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/HNTF/Agenda_Telco_24th_May_2011 Found Date: 24 May 2011 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2011/05/24-webtv-minutes.html People with action items:[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]