See also: IRC log
<trackbot> Date: 19 May 2011
<JAllan> zakim close item 2
<kford> trackbot, start meeting
<trackbot> Meeting: User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference
<trackbot> Date: 19 May 2011
<kford> http://accessibilitycampseattle.org/blog/
<kford> http://accessibilitycampseattle.org/blog/
<kford> 2.7.1 (former 4.7.7) Discover navigation and activation keystrokes from Simon Harper - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2011AprJun/0033.html
<kford> 1.2.3 Repair Missing Associations: from Simon Harper - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2011AprJun/0032.html
<kford> speech input blog. http://blogs.sitepoint.com/html5-speech-input-fields/
<JAllan> all, discussion of events, rants, and a11y in html-next
<kford> Scribe: kford
<JAllan> http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/work/wiki/Keyboard,_Focus,_and_Navigation_Restructuring
GL: I am going to give an overview of the issue that Simon is talking about.
<Greg> 2.7.1 has some overlaps with 2.1.6 and 2.1.7 but there are also key differences:
<Greg> a) 2.7.1 described by Simon as mouseless browsing, but it's not...
<Greg> b) 2.7.1 talks about programmatic access
<Greg> c) 2.7.1 gives both UI and content Level A (vs. different on 2.1.6/7)
<Greg> 2.7.1 (former 4.7.7) Discover navigation and activation keystrokes: Direct navigation and activation keystrokes are discoverable both programmatically and via perceivable labels. (Level A)
<Greg> 2.1.6 (former 4.1.6) Present Direct Commands in Rendered Content: The user can have any recognized direct commands (e.g. accesskey) in rendered content be presented with their associated elements (e.g. "[Ctrl+t]" displayed after a link whose accesskey value is "t", or an audio browser reading the value or label of a form control followed by "accesskey control plus t"). (Level A)
<Greg> 2.1.7 (former 4.1.7) Present Direct Commands in User Interface: The user has the option to have any direct commands (e.g. keyboard shortcuts) in the user agent user interface be presented with their associated user interface controls (e.g. "Ctrl+S" displayed on the "Save" menu item and toolbar button). (Level AA)
<Greg> In Kim's and my proposal we moved everything relating to direct navigation and activation into a new guideline, which we numbered 2.3:
<Greg> Guideline 2.3: Provide direct navigation and activation [includes former 2.1.6, 2.1.7, 2.1.11]
<Greg> * 2.3.1 Direct Navigation to Important Elements [former 2.7.4, before that 4.7.2, name change] (Level A)
<Greg> * 2.3.2 Direct Activation [former 2.7.6, before that 4.7.5] (Level AA)
<Greg> * 2.3.3 Present Direct Commands in Rendered Content [former 2.1.6, before that 4.1.6, also 2.7.1] (Level A)
<Greg> * 2.3.4 Present Direct Commands in User Interface [former 2.1.7, before that 4.1.7, also 2.7.1] (Level AA)
<Greg> * 2.3.3 User Override of Accesskeys [former 2.1.11, before that 4.1.11]
<JAllan> http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/work/wiki/Keyboard,_Focus,_and_Navigation_Restructuring
Group talking about sorting out various proposals on these topics.
<JAllan> simons original proposal in the wiki - http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/work/wiki/Guideline_2.7#Proposed_2.7.1_Discover_navigation_and_activation_keystrokes:
JA: I'm hearing that you want
2.7.1 to go away bgecause it is in 2.3.3 and 2.3.4.
... Do the new 2.3.3 and 2.3.4 cover the mouseless browsing
example.
GL: It would be these in conjunction with 2.3.1.
KP: We did change the title but
at the time we were doing this, we did think this would cover
this.
... That is mouseless browsing would be covered by 2.3.1.
JA: Are there objections to removing 2.7.1 and just living with 2.3.1, 2.3.3 and 2.3.4.
<JAllan> +1
<sharper> +1
Group consensus seems to be that eliminating 2.7.1 is the way to go.
JS: When moving things around in the wiki, please us numbers like A, B and such rather than numbers so I know things are being inserted.
Resolved: 2.7.1 to be dropped in favor of 2.3.1, 2.3.3 and 2.3.4
<scribe> ACTION: JS to update document appropriately to eliminate 2.7.1. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/05/19-ua-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-557 - Update document appropriately to eliminate 2.7.1. [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2011-05-26].
<JAllan> http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/work/wiki/Keyboard,_Focus,_and_Navigation_Restructuring#Related_Resources_for_Success_Criterion_2.1.6_.28former_4.1.6.29:
JA asking gfroup about this text.
Group is good with it.
<jeanne> ACTION: Jeanne to Jeanne with Greg and Kim work together to renumber the document. Jeanne to add the approved text for 2.2.3 to the new 2.2.3 SC. (Save existing text to be renumbered) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/05/19-ua-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-558 - Jeanne with Greg and Kim work together to renumber the document. Jeanne to add the approved text for 2.2.3 to the new 2.2.3 SC. (Save existing text to be renumbered) [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2011-05-26].
JA giving overview of group on American Publishers association and an accessibility effort.
JA: Group going to be reviewing ATAG and UAAG.
GL: RElated to all these off topic discussions we've talked about a central place for known browser bugs.
<JAllan> something similar to www.quirksmode.org/css/quirksmode.html
<jeanne> http://www.w3.org/wiki/Testing/Requirements
<JAllan> scribe: jallan
sh: IBM Raven,
<sharper> http://www.alphaworks.ibm.com/tech/raven
list of UA issues that impact a11y: inpage links, tooltips, longdesc, accesskeys, generated content
W3 has a working group on JavaScript API, which is a huge a11y issue
action jallan to create a wiki page for list of UA issues that impact a11y: inpage links, tooltips, longdesc, accesskeys, generated content
<trackbot> Created ACTION-559 - Create a wiki page for list of UA issues that impact a11y: inpage links, tooltips, longdesc, accesskeys, generated content [on Jim Allan - due 2011-05-26].
http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/work/wiki/Guideline_1.2
<sharper> http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/work/wiki/Guideline_2.7#Proposed_2.7.2_Access_Relationships
<sharper> http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/work/wiki/Guideline_1.11
2.7.2 (former 4.7.3) Access Relationships: The user can access explicitly-defined relationships based on the user's position in content (e.g., show form control's label, show label's form control, show a cell's table headers). (Level A)
1.2.3 Repair Missing Associations: The user can specify whether or not the user agent should attempt to predict associations from author-specified presentation attributes (i.e. position and appearance). (Level AAA)
sh: I did IER for 1.2.3. reviewed
UAAG2 and found 2.7.2.
... proposing remove 2.7.2 and replace with 1.2.3
http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2011/ED-IMPLEMENTING-UAAG20-20110428/
KP: these seem different.
sh: prefers 'associations' to 'relationships'
gl: +1
kp: need to be explicit.
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.136 of Date: 2011/05/12 12:01:43 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/abot/about/ Found Scribe: kford Inferring ScribeNick: kford Found Scribe: jallan Inferring ScribeNick: JAllan Scribes: kford, jallan ScribeNicks: kford, JAllan Default Present: JAllan, Greg, kford, Jeanne, KimPatch, sharper Present: JAllan Greg kford Jeanne KimPatch sharper Simon Kim Jim Kelly Regrets: Jan MarkH Found Date: 19 May 2011 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2011/05/19-ua-minutes.html People with action items: jeanne js[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]