EOWG 18 Feb 2011


  1. WCAG 2.0 at a Glance
  2. WAI flyer - update on status (Flyer Notes, another approach (draft coming), draft resources list)
  3. WAI Outreach Planning - discuss comments from EOWG perspective


Helle, Ian


<shawn> Scribe: Sharron

<shawn> ScribeNick: Sharron

<scribe> scribe: Sharron

WCAG2 At A Glance

Shawn: wanted everyone to have a week to consider and hope for a brilliant brainstorm
... are you happy with proposeed changes?

Sharron: Yes

Liam: yes

Sandi: yes

<shawn> http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/changelogs/cl-quicktips#a13

Sylvie: What is the proposed change for 1.3?

Shawn: It is the only one still open

<sylvie> ok with all others

<shawn> sharron: Meaning and structure persist with any technology.

Shawn: Any other thoughts?

Liam: Present content in different ways without losing meaning or structure

Shawn: Puts responsibility on the author

Liam: Don't lose meaning if content is presented in different ways

Sharron: Don't lose meaning if content is reconfigured
... reformatted?

<shawn> Make content that can be reconfigured without losing meaning

<shawn> Make content that can be presented in different ways without losing meaning

<sylvie> reconfigured sounds strange to me

Jennifer: differently?

<shawn> Make content with meaning independt of presentation

Liam: meaning is independent of presentation

<LiamM> keep meaning independent of presentation

Shawn: Make content that can be presented in different ways without losing meaning

Jennifer: differently rather than in different ways

<shawn> Make content presentable differntly without losing meaning :-)

Sharron: 'keep meaning independent of presentation' really gets at the crux of it

Shawn: Will people know what it means? Will it be confused with 'separate content from presentation'? does it cover what is actually in the Success Criteria?

Jennifer: seems like it would map to keep content separate from presentaiton

Shawn: is that good?
... people who don't know the phrase may not understand it

Liam: We like it becasue it is old school but the thing is that content does not equal meaning so it is clearer to say separate meaning from presentation

<sinarmaya> Ensure that the meaning is maintained in any medium or mode of presentation

Jennifer: Maintain meaning regardless of presentation

Liam: maintain meaning acrosee different presentations

<shawn> Make content mean the same in different presetnations

Shawn: Propose that we sit on the original language though its longer and think of how to shorten it.
... Make content maintain meaning when presented in different ways.

Jennifer: retain rather than maintain?

Shawn: Make content retain meaning when presneted in different ways.

Sharron: or regardless of presentation?

Shawn: whould people understand?

Sandi: Have content retain meaning however presented
... Make rather than have...Make content retain meaning however presented

Liam: Make content retain meaning

Sandi: However presented implies the different possibilities

Liam: but seems onerous

Shawn: reads all current brainstorm possibilities

Liam: structure content wiht underlying meaning
... add meaning to content

Shawn: I will send updated email with link for your further pondering.

WAI Flyer

Shawn: There is some reaction that says, great lively flyer. Another reaction is a concern with the marketing approach in that W3C/WAI is traditionally quietly authoritative. Concern with marketing approach.
... not wanting to step on others toes

Sharron: Whose toes?

Shawn: other organizations that provide information and support for web accessibility.

Sharron: I think its silly for other organizations to mind that the approach is lively and engaging

Shawn: "Home" to accessibility.

Jennifer: well, the fact is that the W3C is the stands making body

Sandi: Yes they are making the standards, no other organziations makes and maintains standards. Why would everyone not be happy for that to be recognized?
... others can say "most authoritative," best presented, most comprehensive etc

Liam: The other side is that other organziations are not just reworking what WAI does, they are also contributing to the body of knowledge.
... I kind of get where we are coming from in terms of wanting to proclaim ourselves as foundamental but we are not a house alone, we are part of a village. Maybe we are the town hall
... the source of web accessibility. W3C has an reputation for arrogance, underserved perhaps but not something we want to paly into.

Shawn: There is much information that we want to provide but don't yet and other information that we will never provide.
... like a tools evaluation - which one is best?
... Shadi can you better articulate some of the concerns about putting a marketing face forward?

Liam: suggests: 'W3C: Accessibility's Mum'

Jennifer: The mother of all accessibility

<LiamM> Suggest: 'W3C: Accessibility's Mum'

<shawn> Jennifer: WAI: The Mother of all Accessibility

Sandi: The godfather

<shawn> [comments in jest]

Jennifer: the goddess

Shadi: There is a concern about overclaiming what we actually do as opposed to what we hope to do.
... no need to upset others unless necessary
... Some of the discussion was that the marketing claims could backfire. The approach can be counter reactive deoending on the audience
... no need to be dull and boring, but must look for the golden middle.

Shawn: So much as we like this, we must take time to consider, encourage the group to think aobut what we can do in the manitme since we are looking for materials for March conferences.
... From the agenda, item 2 link to the flyer notes
... consider what we were trying to do with this. WAI is tha place for international standards. Guess what? we have materials you can use and finally how to participate.
... Goal of flyer is not the Business Case, but just to let people know of the resources available. Reactions?

Liam: yes, sounds reasonable

Shawn: and after we get through March should consider if we need another flyer that does sell accessibility itself

<sylvie> One question while reading this doc, is WAI singular or plural?

Shawn: for now, go to your email, you should have one that says flyer content. Everyone have it? The task was to use wording from existing site, that had already been vetted.
... Quick reactins, feedback on this direction overall for handouts for March

Jennifer: Question #1 any chance for WCAG at a glance being ready?

Shawn: yes, we are planning on it.
... one side will be the flyer info and other side WCAG at a glance

Jennifer: Not sure what the W3C writing style is at this point, but there are a few British plural/singular issues

Shawn: thanks will count on you for this but not there yet

Liam: It reads well, would like to throw in the suggestion for a bit more about UAAG, ATAG and ARIA

Sandi: In the first one we actually did include more of that, can send

Shawn: and there is more in resources list

Shadi: There is often confusion between WAI-ARIA and WCAG. Having them in the same list may contribute to the confusion.
... I was missing any reference to the business case or others looking at costs.
... instead of planning and policy can we focus on planning and implmentation.

Shawn: any additional comments on this or the resources list?

Jennifer: Is the resources list separate?

Shawn: Not yet known.

Jennifer: WCAG AT A Glance, will it eventually be on a business card?

<Sandi> I had WCAG - Web Content Accessibility Guidelines

<Sandi> For creating accessible content in websites and Internet applications

<Sandi> ATAG - Authoring Tool Accessibility Guidelines

<Sandi> For developing software to create accessible websites

<Sandi> UAG - User Agent Accessibility Guidelines

<Sandi> For ensuring web browsers, media players and assistive technologies are accessible

Shawn: Hoping to, the QuickTips was very popular

Jennifer: It was fine, quickly skimmable, conforms to other things we have distributed

Liam: Looking at Sandi's comments on ATAG, I would like to see that expanded further.

<LiamM> making writing to the web accessible

<Zakim> LiamM, you wanted to ask about atag

WAI Outreach Planning

Shawn: want to consider, prioritize and recruit additional members to help based on the priorities we agree upon.
... reveiw the suggestions, comment on the high level.

Liam: Looks good to me.

Sharron: Looks good to me

Jennifer: fine too

Shwn: if we look at the individual sections, have we left anything out? soemthing that should go to the top of the list, etc

Liam: The general intro to accessibility, a challenge is to nail the intro to current W3C work.

Shawn: Look at old intro and make the W3C intro into Step 1 and the WAI one would be step 2.

Liam: It's no longer an intro if it is step 2

... Also did logo redesign attempt and did not succeed in finding one we liked.
... the HTML5 logo redesign some liked very much, some hated

Liam: That's a great reaction, as long as people don't give a big 'don't care'

Shawn: May try to resurrect the logo work.

Sandi: I think there is a mis-match between some of the goals and some of the reservations. There needs to be recognition of the fact that WAI is a brand. And needs appropriate management for correct positioning.
... it is an exercise to get to the core of mission, vision and then those other things will fall into place.

Sharron: I agree

Shawn: WAI staff does that kind of visioning and mission revision. Don't think it would be effective in EO without staff paticipation.
... anything else on this list?
... next section "Outreach to PWD"

Liam: It is critical.
... in that list probably most critical is Develop & implement awareness campaign - write short articles & get them placed

Shawn: Think about which of these you can directly help with

Jennifer: I am thinking of BAD demo and how that might be valuable reused for this audience.

Shawn: Getting accessibility into education.

Sharron: Very high priority in my opinion

Jennifer: Isn't someone else woking on this?

Sandi: Open Web Education Alliance and I am involved

Shawn: Key players who initiated ran out of time and steam so Sandi has stepped up to work with them

Sandi: Seems to be activity in different places, but not coordinated
... interest and opportunity.

Shawn: anything else about this? Next is other priorities. First two are big projects - updating the Quick ref and then others would be lower.
... looking at this list overall, anything seem like Top Priority or things that should be moved. What can you volunteer for? Ideas for recruiting others to help?

Sandi: I'm up for writing the Basic - WCAG2 for beginners

Sharron: Would it be useful to bring some of those from the CODE committee into EO?

Shawn: Maybe
... that ends the agenda for today. Will update brainsorms, please review.

Summary of Action Items

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WARNING: No "Present: ... " found!
Possibly Present: IPcaller Jennifer Liam LiamM P13 P6 P9 Sandi ScribeNick Shadi Shwn Suggest Sylvie aaaa aabb eo joined sHAWN sharron sinarmaya
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Regrets: Helle Ian
Got date from IRC log name: 18 Feb 2011
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2011/02/18-eo-minutes.html
People with action items: 

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