<shawn> Scribe: Sharron
<shawn> ScribeNick: Sharron
<scribe> scribe: Sharron
Shawn: wanted everyone to have a
week to consider and hope for a brilliant brainstorm
... are you happy with proposeed changes?
Sylvie: What is the proposed change for 1.3?
Shawn: It is the only one still open
<sylvie> ok with all others
<shawn> sharron: Meaning and structure persist with any technology.
Shawn: Any other thoughts?
Liam: Present content in different ways without losing meaning or structure
Shawn: Puts responsibility on the author
Liam: Don't lose meaning if content is presented in different ways
Sharron: Don't lose meaning if
content is reconfigured
<shawn> Make content that can be reconfigured without losing meaning
<shawn> Make content that can be presented in different ways without losing meaning
<sylvie> reconfigured sounds strange to me
<shawn> Make content with meaning independt of presentation
Liam: meaning is independent of presentation
<LiamM> keep meaning independent of presentation
Shawn: Make content that can be presented in different ways without losing meaning
Jennifer: differently rather than in different ways
<shawn> Make content presentable differntly without losing meaning :-)
Sharron: 'keep meaning independent of presentation' really gets at the crux of it
Shawn: Will people know what it means? Will it be confused with 'separate content from presentation'? does it cover what is actually in the Success Criteria?
Jennifer: seems like it would map to keep content separate from presentaiton
Shawn: is that good?
... people who don't know the phrase may not understand it
Liam: We like it becasue it is old school but the thing is that content does not equal meaning so it is clearer to say separate meaning from presentation
<sinarmaya> Ensure that the meaning is maintained in any medium or mode of presentation
Jennifer: Maintain meaning regardless of presentation
Liam: maintain meaning acrosee different presentations
<shawn> Make content mean the same in different presetnations
Shawn: Propose that we sit on the
original language though its longer and think of how to shorten
... Make content maintain meaning when presented in different ways.
Jennifer: retain rather than maintain?
Shawn: Make content retain meaning when presneted in different ways.
Sharron: or regardless of presentation?
Shawn: whould people understand?
Sandi: Have content retain
meaning however presented
... Make rather than have...Make content retain meaning however presented
Liam: Make content retain meaning
Sandi: However presented implies the different possibilities
Liam: but seems onerous
Shawn: reads all current brainstorm possibilities
Liam: structure content wiht
... add meaning to content
Shawn: I will send updated email with link for your further pondering.
Shawn: There is some reaction
that says, great lively flyer. Another reaction is a concern
with the marketing approach in that W3C/WAI is traditionally
quietly authoritative. Concern with marketing approach.
... not wanting to step on others toes
Sharron: Whose toes?
Shawn: other organizations that provide information and support for web accessibility.
Sharron: I think its silly for other organizations to mind that the approach is lively and engaging
Shawn: "Home" to accessibility.
Jennifer: well, the fact is that the W3C is the stands making body
Sandi: Yes they are making the
standards, no other organziations makes and maintains
standards. Why would everyone not be happy for that to be
... others can say "most authoritative," best presented, most comprehensive etc
Liam: The other side is that
other organziations are not just reworking what WAI does, they
are also contributing to the body of knowledge.
... I kind of get where we are coming from in terms of wanting to proclaim ourselves as foundamental but we are not a house alone, we are part of a village. Maybe we are the town hall
... the source of web accessibility. W3C has an reputation for arrogance, underserved perhaps but not something we want to paly into.
Shawn: There is much information
that we want to provide but don't yet and other information
that we will never provide.
... like a tools evaluation - which one is best?
... Shadi can you better articulate some of the concerns about putting a marketing face forward?
Liam: suggests: 'W3C: Accessibility's Mum'
Jennifer: The mother of all accessibility
<LiamM> Suggest: 'W3C: Accessibility's Mum'
<shawn> Jennifer: WAI: The Mother of all Accessibility
Sandi: The godfather
<shawn> [comments in jest]
Jennifer: the goddess
Shadi: There is a concern about
overclaiming what we actually do as opposed to what we hope to
... no need to upset others unless necessary
... Some of the discussion was that the marketing claims could backfire. The approach can be counter reactive deoending on the audience
... no need to be dull and boring, but must look for the golden middle.
Shawn: So much as we like this,
we must take time to consider, encourage the group to think
aobut what we can do in the manitme since we are looking for
materials for March conferences.
... From the agenda, item 2 link to the flyer notes
... consider what we were trying to do with this. WAI is tha place for international standards. Guess what? we have materials you can use and finally how to participate.
... Goal of flyer is not the Business Case, but just to let people know of the resources available. Reactions?
Liam: yes, sounds reasonable
Shawn: and after we get through March should consider if we need another flyer that does sell accessibility itself
<sylvie> One question while reading this doc, is WAI singular or plural?
Shawn: for now, go to your email,
you should have one that says flyer content. Everyone have it?
The task was to use wording from existing site, that had
already been vetted.
... Quick reactins, feedback on this direction overall for handouts for March
Jennifer: Question #1 any chance for WCAG at a glance being ready?
Shawn: yes, we are planning on
... one side will be the flyer info and other side WCAG at a glance
Jennifer: Not sure what the W3C writing style is at this point, but there are a few British plural/singular issues
Shawn: thanks will count on you for this but not there yet
Liam: It reads well, would like to throw in the suggestion for a bit more about UAAG, ATAG and ARIA
Sandi: In the first one we actually did include more of that, can send
Shawn: and there is more in resources list
Shadi: There is often confusion
between WAI-ARIA and WCAG. Having them in the same list may
contribute to the confusion.
... I was missing any reference to the business case or others looking at costs.
... instead of planning and policy can we focus on planning and implmentation.
Shawn: any additional comments on this or the resources list?
Jennifer: Is the resources list separate?
Shawn: Not yet known.
Jennifer: WCAG AT A Glance, will it eventually be on a business card?
<Sandi> I had WCAG - Web Content Accessibility Guidelines
<Sandi> For creating accessible content in websites and Internet applications
<Sandi> ATAG - Authoring Tool Accessibility Guidelines
<Sandi> For developing software to create accessible websites
<Sandi> UAG - User Agent Accessibility Guidelines
<Sandi> For ensuring web browsers, media players and assistive technologies are accessible
Shawn: Hoping to, the QuickTips was very popular
Jennifer: It was fine, quickly skimmable, conforms to other things we have distributed
Liam: Looking at Sandi's comments on ATAG, I would like to see that expanded further.
<LiamM> making writing to the web accessible
<Zakim> LiamM, you wanted to ask about atag
Shawn: want to consider,
prioritize and recruit additional members to help based on the
priorities we agree upon.
... reveiw the suggestions, comment on the high level.
Liam: Looks good to me.
Sharron: Looks good to me
Jennifer: fine too
Shwn: if we look at the individual sections, have we left anything out? soemthing that should go to the top of the list, etc
Liam: The general intro to accessibility, a challenge is to nail the intro to current W3C work.
Shawn: Look at old intro and make the W3C intro into Step 1 and the WAI one would be step 2.
Liam: It's no longer an intro if it is step 2
sHAWN: nEXT SECTION - AWARENESS
OF wai AND RESOURCES
... Also did logo redesign attempt and did not succeed in finding one we liked.
... the HTML5 logo redesign some liked very much, some hated
Liam: That's a great reaction, as long as people don't give a big 'don't care'
Shawn: May try to resurrect the logo work.
Sandi: I think there is a
mis-match between some of the goals and some of the
reservations. There needs to be recognition of the fact that
WAI is a brand. And needs appropriate management for correct
... it is an exercise to get to the core of mission, vision and then those other things will fall into place.
Sharron: I agree
Shawn: WAI staff does that kind
of visioning and mission revision. Don't think it would be
effective in EO without staff paticipation.
... anything else on this list?
... next section "Outreach to PWD"
Liam: It is critical.
... in that list probably most critical is Develop & implement awareness campaign - write short articles & get them placed
Shawn: Think about which of these you can directly help with
Jennifer: I am thinking of BAD demo and how that might be valuable reused for this audience.
Shawn: Getting accessibility into education.
Sharron: Very high priority in my opinion
Jennifer: Isn't someone else woking on this?
Sandi: Open Web Education Alliance and I am involved
Shawn: Key players who initiated ran out of time and steam so Sandi has stepped up to work with them
Sandi: Seems to be activity in
different places, but not coordinated
... interest and opportunity.
Shawn: anything else about this?
Next is other priorities. First two are big projects - updating
the Quick ref and then others would be lower.
... looking at this list overall, anything seem like Top Priority or things that should be moved. What can you volunteer for? Ideas for recruiting others to help?
Sandi: I'm up for writing the Basic - WCAG2 for beginners
Sharron: Would it be useful to bring some of those from the CODE committee into EO?
... that ends the agenda for today. Will update brainsorms, please review.
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