LLD XG -- 28 Oct 2010

<emma> Previous minutes: http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/14-lld-minutes.html

<emma> Previous: 2010-10-14 http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/14-lld-minutes.html

<scribe> Scribe: Peter Murray

<scribe> Scribenick: pmurray

<ww> bah. grrr.

<ww> bristol number network busy

<ww> ... boston number no dtmf

<ww> ... nice doen't answer

<ww> P48 is ww

<ww> zakim mute me

<ww> is there a way to call into these meetings directly with SIP?

<Asaf> @ww +1

<digikim> lots of noise...

<edsu> sounds like a job for a computer :-)

<digikim> edsu: yes, Babbage's machine is working! ;)

<ww> source of noise: http://bit.ly/aEFZTd ?

Admin

Proposed: To accept minutes of previous telecon:

http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/14-lld-minutes.html

Resolved: Accept minutes of previous telecon

RESOLUTION: Accept minutes of previous telecon

<jodi> Daytime savings FAIL week :(

Report on the face-to-face meeting in Pittsburgh

emma: Two meetings. one joint with DCMI and one separate

<ww> we can hear you TomB

Minutes for Friday are in the draft stages.

TomB: Meeting about application profiles
... review of the DCAM and questions about what should be done with the DCAM
... options: deprecated or continued
... discussion was not definitive

<Marcia> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/wiki/JointMeeting2010

TomB: had a presentation by Jeff Young using OWL
... presentation by Marcia and Gordon using application profiles
... big issues as to whether it is useful to have a formal model of application profiles
... TomB hopes to continue the discussion on the public mailing list

<TomB> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-lld/2010Oct/0098.html - Mikael Nilsson

<markva> michael panzer showed software to do checking using OWL: http://clarkparsia.com/pellet/icv/

TomB: Jon is going to respond to Mikael
... need to tease out the advantages and disadvantages of documenting versus validating style
... whether such a model needs to be grounded in RDF as opposed to being neutral with respect to RDF

<emma> (that's Jon Phipps Phipps)

TomB: TomB is going to read back through the minutes and try to keep the discussion going
... wants to summarize this discussion in our final deliverable

<Marcia> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/F2F_Pittsburgh

antoine: Started with the use case discussion and presentation of the use cases by all of the people who volunteered to champion them

<markva> yes we can hear you

antoine: discussed vocabularies with the starting point of going through the use cases to see what vocabularies were used
... this work can be found in the minutes of the meeting
... ??? from ??? has been trying to keep track of vocabulary usage

Ed and Paul

<emma> Ed and Paul Walk

<edsu> here's paul's app http://github.com/paulwalk/lldvis

scribe: Paul's app harvests information from the wiki to see usage of vocabularies
... this could be a good way to make the vocabularies visible to a wider audience
... also discussed the format and content of the final report
... some outreach activities identified as well.
... for deliverbles, an inventory of library linked data that is available. This is a bit of a moving target, but it would be useful to provide a snapshot
... also identify actors in the community that are harvesting data

<Asaf> +1 for using CKAN

scribe: use CKAN to identify the data sets

ww: Reinforces suggestion to use CKAM

antoine: Asks ww to lead a discussion at a future session on CKAN

<scribe> ACTION: ww to present on how to use CKAN [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/10/28-lld-minutes.html#action01]

<edsu> ww++

<antoine> +1

<ww> :)

antoine: continuing with discussion on the YouTube video. Stay tuned for further information
... sunday morning discussion on the topics
... trying to get an idea of what is at stake with the topics
... outcome is a categorization of the topics
... need to find use cases that ground each topic
... talked about requirements for producing and consuming library linked data
... making requirements and suggesting solutions may be out of scope of this group.
... may just identify issues
... next talked about pieces of the deliverable
... what needs to be documented in more depth for our reports

emma: there is a page on the wiki with photographs of the meeting

emma: what came out of the discussions of the face-to-face

Use cases and use case clusters

emma: Use cases grouped into use case clusters
... during the face-to-face meeting.
... created six clusters that came out of the meeting to start the work.
... the intent is to have a small group of curators work on each cluster to make something consistent out of it: scenarios, etc.

<antoine> Slides for case presentation (partial, not everyone had slides which was perfectly ok ;-) ) -> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/F2F_Pittsburgh_UCslides

emma: idea of the clusters is that it is easier to extract the scenario from the cluster rather than from each use case
... analyze the main topic of each use case and to cluster them
... minutes have the beginning of groups for each use case cluster, starting with two identified curators
... others that were not at the f-to-f meeting should join one or more clusters

markva: volunteered for the citations

<emma> digital objects

<jodi> I can join the digital objects cluster

markva: it is handy to have someone else (Mark is going away for two weeks)

<antoine> jodi++

<Asaf> Being a curator of digital texts, I may well join. :)

emma: authority and bibliographic clusters are big and will need other voluneers

<antoine> oops mark's cluster is indeed not citations but dig. objects. the agenda was incomplete

<scribe> ACTION: emma, kcoyle, GordonD, Marcia, bvatant to structure the discussion of use cases in light of the topic list [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/09/23-lld-minutes.html#action01] [DONE] [DONE]

<scribe> ACTION: People who were not at the face-to-face meeting volunteer to join a cluster [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/10/28-lld-minutes.html#action03]

emma: We still have seven use cases that are not in the clusters.
... we will also need shepherds for these use cases.

<scribe> ACTION: Use-case owner(s) to check table and matches [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/09/30-lld-minutes.html#action03] [DONE]

<scribe> ACTION: Topic owners to check table and think about supplying additional use-cases [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/09/30-lld-minutes.html#action04] [DONE]

(Fill in completion of other actions here...)

<scribe> ACTION: People who didn't attend the face-to-face should volunteer to shepherd a new use case. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/10/28-lld-minutes.html#action06]

Vocabularies

<kcoyle> ++ jodi

<jodi> :)

emma: Created a wiki page for listing vocabularies

antoine: THe action is really meant to fuel the reporting application
... if the action is carried out, we can make a public display

<scribe> ACTION: for each use case champion: on the Vocabularies page, link toeach URL use case that uses it [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/23-lld-minutes.html#action01] [CONTINUES]

Requirements

emma: Have started a page for the initial listing of requirements
... this page is a placeholder for requirements extracted from the use case cluster

Topics

<scribe> ACTION: Karen to add short names to the topics page [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/07-lld-minutes.html#action09] [DONE]

emma: Suggestions recorded in the agenda for the topics

<jodi> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Libraries

<jodi> [[Category:Libraries]]

jodi: Taking inspiration from wikipedia, use tags on a wiki page to create categories in the wiki

<jodi> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Category:Bibliographic_data

jodi: did this for a couple of the use cases in the bibliographic cluster
... can be used to make a note of the vocabularies

<Asaf> +1

<jodi> finally, there's a little info about MediaWiki software's use of categories: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Category

<TomB> Under http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/TopicsDiscussed#LLD.AUTHORITIES, click on http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Category:LLD.AUTHORITIES, which links to http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Use_Case_AGROVOC_Thesaurus

markva: Jodi: the idea is to create a category for each cluster?

<Asaf> for each topic!

jodi: Yes and for other factors that we want to take into consideration

markva: Would we need a separate page for each kind of category?

jodi: More information can be put into the category page

<Asaf> On one hand, they are automatically populated, but on the other, you can add introductor text/links at the top.

<jodi> exactly, thanks Asaf. :)

emma: Also for each topic

<Asaf> (and many such links already exist, from [[TopicsDiscussed]]

TomB: This approach would also use the category pages.
... the idea is that each topic on the topic page would have its own URI because each topic discussed would be a section heading and section headings are clickable from the table of contents

<Asaf> quick sample: -> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Category:LLD.PERSON-METADATA

<Asaf> i.e. categories are nestable

jodi: Categories can be categorized in the same was as other wiki pages

<jodi> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Libraries

<jodi> (there are subcategories in the wiki libraries category, for instance)

<jeff_> This discussion of wiki categories sounds a lot like SKOS

<jodi> jeff_: indeed!

jodi: envisoions that part of curating each cluster is adding it to a category

<markva> jodi suggests that cluster editors do categories

<markva> which is what I wanted to say :)

TomB: The job of adding categories should be the use case shepherd

<jodi> edsu: interesting point!

<edsu> TomB: my advice would be to stay focused on the report then, perhaps putting together the report structure to be filled in

<markva> I'd say it's about curating and homogenizing the texts

<jodi> we may not know the parts, but we know that we'll talk about requirements, use cases, ...

<jodi> more of a skeleton than a table of contents

<jodi> thanks! bye all!

<Asaf> Cheers, everyone.

<ww> thank you everyone!

<scribe> ACTION: Karen and Emma to curate archive cluster for end of december [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/23-lld-minutes.html#action02] [CONTINUES]

<scribe> ACTION: Kai and Ed to curate citations cluster for end of december [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/23-lld-minutes.html#action03] [CONTINUES]

<scribe> ACTION: Mark (and someone else) to curate digital objects cluster for end of december [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/23-lld-minutes.html#action04] [CONTINUES]

<emma> replace "mark and someone else" by "mark and jodi"

<scribe> ACTION: Gordon and Martin to curate bibliographic data cluster for end of december [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/23-lld-minutes.html#action05] [CONTINUES]

<scribe> ACTION: Jeff and Alexander to curate authority data cluster for end of december [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/23-lld-minutes.html#action06] [CONTINUES]

<scribe> ACTION: Antoine and Michael to curate vocabulary alignment cluster for end of december [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/23-lld-minutes.html#action07] [CONTINUES]

<scribe> ACTION: Tom to re-categorize AGRIS under Bibliographic Data. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/24-lld-minutes.html#action02] [DONE]

<scribe> ACTION: GordonD and antoine to study use cases that relate to vocabulary merging use case [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/24-lld-minutes.html#action01] [DONE]

<scribe> ACTION: Jeff to review the UK eGovernment document on identifiers. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/24-lld-minutes.html#action03] [CONTINUES]

<scribe> ACTION: Alex, Jeff, Martin, MichaelP elaborate on general purpose IT architecture for dealing with linked data with caching feature [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/24-lld-minutes.html#action04]

--CONTINUE

<scribe> --CONTINUES

<scribe> ACTION: Emma and Antoine to create use case DATA.SEARCH-OPTIMIZATION [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/24-lld-minutes.html#action06] [CONTINUES]

<scribe> ACTION: on everyone to update the Events page (http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/wiki/LLD/Events) on the wiki regularly [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/24-lld-minutes.html#action05] [CONTINUES]

<scribe> ACTION: Ross to create a page with LLD data sets on the wiki [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/07-lld-minutes.html#action11] [CONTINUES]

- DRAFT -

LLD XG

28 Oct 2010

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