<juansequeda> It seems that I can't dial in on a voip phone

<scribe> scribe: hhalpin

<MacTed> is anyone else getting that crazy echo?

scribenick hhalpin

<scribe> chair: ashok

trackbot, start meeting

<trackbot> Meeting: RDB2RDF Working Group Teleconference

<trackbot> Date: 14 September 2010

<Ashok> 1. Admin PROPOSAL: Accept the minutes of last meeting, see http://www.w3.org/2010/09/07-rdb2rdf-minutes.html

+1

<juansequeda> +1

APPROVED: Meeting minutes http://www.w3.org/2010/09/07-rdb2rdf-minutes.html

2. Name of standard

hhalpin: the name suggestion was half in humor but it is catchy.

ashok: name doesn't really matter but would be happy to hear other opinions

juan: could be confused with SQL

<Souri> +1 on waiting to think more ...

ashok: but ends in QL not RL.

hhalpin: would be happy to follow the spec editors here

ashok: no strong opinions, it can wait

3. First public working draft update

souri: have started setting up cvs
... would like to share one point
... as regards xml syntax rdf
... in xml, we have cardinality restrictions
... richard has created a rdf syntax mapping
... we need to get it at the schema level
... for xml schema we'd like to transfer every bit to RDF schema
... which means to get cardinality we'd have to with OWL
... but then we can do mapping
... validation

<Ashok> Harry: Advantage of XML schema is that it provides validation

<Ashok> ... RDFS and OWL does not give us that because they are based on open-world assumption

Turtle syntax

even something really drafty is fine.

feel free to e-mail me as well if eric doesn't get back quickly re cvs issues.

<Seema> sure thanks!

4. Semantics debate

ashok: there should be one default mapping document
... could you guys get together and unify things.

juan: I think this document does it.
... folks who have read and understood Eric's document
... would see that it would expense
... I've also ran it by Microsoft, but the reaction was
... was to make sure the notation is something people would be comfortable.
... hoping to get more feedback from Microsoft.

ashok: how about other companies?

juan: I'm working with IBM now

ashok: can help with contacts here.

<juansequeda> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/wiki/Default_Mapping

ashok: would like to run

<Ashok> I suggest Juan, Eric and Marcelo to go off and create a single default mapping document

Juan: we use a datalog notation
... we have some predicates that build these URIs
... stemURI/name of relation, URI for key of that relationship, you can concat all the primary keys
... the precise default generation is up for further discussion

souri: you include foreign key URIs in attribute URIs for that scheme

juan: we have that as a tuple URI
... we could have that as a tuple URI

souri: a foreign key is like a virtual column
... more like an attribute URI so to speak
... four subsections
... x is rdf:type y

mapping template

[juan goes through document in detail]

juan: these rules seem to cover all the defaults
... will write it all down in R2RML syntax

ashok: the difference is you guys use Datalog and Eric uses a set-oriented syntax, that's it?

juan: the rules he are using are like a BNF, and we are using production rules
... only 4 cases
... eric has 20 cases
... we all should have done that
... and it's taken me time
... two weeks working on this

<juansequeda> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/wiki/Default_Mapping_to_RDFS/OWL

juan: schema = ontology, we need both.

souri: that document is fairly simple to understand
... they can understand it.
... they may not want to spend more than 5 minutes
... so they can see the different kinds
... if we have an example, then we get it.
... if there is an accompanying document like this, then if we can get a formal semantics.

<juansequeda> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/directGraph/

souri: I don't remember Eric's document too well...

LeeF, you there?

iv_an_ru?

MacTed: datalog seems better overall.

<juansequeda> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/wiki/Semantics_of_R2RML

nuno: fine with datalog semantics, but can't speak for implementers

souri?

juan: IBM and Microsoft seem to prefer datalog as well.

souri: datalog seems simpler to me, a bit more precise

<Ashok> Harry: We should produce FPWDs first then create some test cases that people can play with

<MacTed> +1

ashok: we seem to get have consensus with.

<MacTed> OpenLink is likely to implement both.

souri: we already have a prototype that works with both, including R2RML syntax
... a few months

<Ashok> Souri: Oracle will implement

juan: we will do mapping language, but we plan to implement the mapping languge

<Souri> At Oracle, we plan to implement the mapping language

ashok: probably d2rq
... what about microsoft?

juan: will ask

<MacTed> crazy talk!

anyways, just a thought MacTed :)

<Souri> I am at risk for next week's telecon

trackbot, end meeting

This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.135  of Date: 2009/03/02 03:52:20  
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Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Succeeded: s/aschok/ashok/
Succeeded: s/Mareclo/Marcelo/
Found Scribe: hhalpin
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Default Present: +3539149aaaa, nunolopes, +1.512.471.aabb, Ashok_Malhotra, +1.781.273.aacc, juansequeda, MacTed, +1.603.897.aadd, Souri, hhalpin
Present: Souri Seema Juan Lee Harry Ted Ashok Nuno
Found Date: 14 Sep 2010
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2010/09/14-rdb2rdf-minutes.html
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<dbooth> Topic: Review of Amy's report