15:55:02 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #rdb2rdf
15:55:02 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/09/14-rdb2rdf-irc
15:56:03 <juansequeda> juansequeda has joined #rdb2rdf
15:58:28 <nunolopes> nunolopes has joined #RDB2RDF
15:59:03 <Ashok> zakim, this will be RDB2RDF
15:59:03 <Zakim> ok, Ashok; I see SW_RDB2RDF()12:00PM scheduled to start in 1 minute
15:59:12 <Ashok> chair:  Ashok
15:59:21 <Ashok> meeting: RDB2RDF
15:59:51 <Zakim> SW_RDB2RDF()12:00PM has now started
15:59:53 <Zakim> + +3539149aaaa
16:00:12 <nunolopes> Zakim, aaaa is me
16:00:12 <Zakim> +nunolopes; got it
16:00:37 <juansequeda> It seems that I can't dial in on a voip phone
16:00:46 <Zakim> + +1.512.471.aabb
16:01:10 <Zakim> +Ashok_Malhotra
16:01:38 <Zakim> + +1.781.273.aacc
16:02:02 <juansequeda> Zakim, aabb is me
16:02:02 <Zakim> +juansequeda; got it
16:02:07 <Souri> Souri has joined #rdb2rdf
16:02:08 <MacTed> Zakim, aacc is OpenLink_Software
16:02:08 <Zakim> +OpenLink_Software; got it
16:02:08 <MacTed> zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me
16:02:08 <MacTed> zakim, mute me
16:02:09 <Zakim> +MacTed; got it
16:02:09 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted
16:02:24 <hhalpin> hhalpin has joined #rdb2rdf
16:02:32 <Zakim> + +1.603.897.aadd
16:02:42 <Souri> zakim, aadd is me
16:02:43 <Zakim> +Souri; got it
16:03:10 <Zakim> +??P41
16:03:19 <hhalpin> Zakim, ??P41 is hhalpin
16:03:19 <Zakim> +hhalpin; got it
16:03:40 <hhalpin> scribe: hhalpin
16:03:44 <MacTed> is anyone else getting that crazy echo?
16:03:46 <hhalpin> scribenick hhalpin
16:03:51 <MacTed> Zakim, who's here?
16:03:51 <Zakim> On the phone I see nunolopes, juansequeda, Ashok_Malhotra, MacTed (muted), Souri, hhalpin
16:03:54 <Zakim> On IRC I see hhalpin, Souri, nunolopes, juansequeda, RRSAgent, Zakim, Ashok, MacTed, LeeF, iv_an_ru, ericP, trackbot
16:03:58 <hhalpin> Zakim, mute me
16:03:58 <Zakim> hhalpin should now be muted
16:04:30 <hhalpin> Zakim, unmute me
16:04:30 <Zakim> hhalpin should no longer be muted
16:04:42 <Seema> Seema has joined #rdb2rdf
16:05:18 <hhalpin> chair: aschok
16:05:21 <hhalpin> trackbot, start meeting
16:05:23 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
16:05:25 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 7322733
16:05:25 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDB2RDF()12:00PM scheduled to start 5 minutes ago
16:05:26 <trackbot> Meeting: RDB2RDF Working Group Teleconference
16:05:26 <trackbot> Date: 14 September 2010
16:05:30 <Ashok> 1. Admin PROPOSAL: Accept the minutes of last meeting, see http://www.w3.org/2010/09/07-rdb2rdf-minutes.html
16:05:36 <hhalpin> +1
16:05:52 <juansequeda> +1
16:05:57 <Souri> s/aschok/ashok/
16:06:37 <hhalpin> APPROVED: Meeting minutes http://www.w3.org/2010/09/07-rdb2rdf-minutes.html
16:06:37 <hhalpin> 2. Name of standard
16:06:58 <MacTed> Zakim, who's noisy?
16:06:58 <Zakim> sorry, MacTed, I don't know what conference this is
16:07:15 <MacTed> Zakim, this is 9322933
16:07:15 <Zakim> sorry, MacTed, I do not see a conference named '9322933' in progress or scheduled at this time
16:07:27 <hhalpin> hhalpin: the name suggestion was half in humor but it is catchy.
16:07:31 <MacTed> Zakim, this is RDB2RDF
16:07:31 <Zakim> ok, MacTed; that matches SW_RDB2RDF()12:00PM
16:07:35 <MacTed> Zakim, who's here?
16:07:35 <Zakim> On the phone I see nunolopes, juansequeda, Ashok_Malhotra, MacTed (muted), Souri, hhalpin, +1.603.897.aaee
16:07:37 <Zakim> On IRC I see Seema, hhalpin, Souri, nunolopes, juansequeda, RRSAgent, Zakim, Ashok, MacTed, LeeF, iv_an_ru, ericP, trackbot
16:07:41 <MacTed> Zakim, who's noisy
16:07:43 <Zakim> I don't understand 'who's noisy', MacTed
16:07:43 <MacTed> Zakim, who's noisy?
16:07:48 <hhalpin> ashok: name doesn't really matter but would be happy to hear other opinions
16:07:52 <hhalpin> juan: could be confused with SQL
16:07:55 <Zakim> MacTed, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: nunolopes (22%), Ashok_Malhotra (18%)
16:07:59 <MacTed> Zakim, must nunolopes
16:08:00 <Zakim> I don't understand 'must nunolopes', MacTed
16:08:02 <Seema> Zakim, aaee is me
16:08:02 <Zakim> +Seema; got it
16:08:04 <MacTed> Zakim, mute nunolopes
16:08:04 <Zakim> nunolopes should now be muted
16:08:12 <Souri> +1 on waiting to think more ...
16:08:13 <hhalpin> ashok: but ends in QL not RL.
16:08:40 <MacTed> Zakim, unmute me
16:08:40 <Zakim> MacTed should no longer be muted
16:08:52 <hhalpin> hhalpin: would be happy to follow the spec editors here
16:09:03 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me
16:09:03 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted
16:09:04 <hhalpin> ashok: no strong opinions, it can wait
16:09:23 <hhalpin> 3. First public working draft update
16:09:58 <hhalpin> souri: have started setting up cvs
16:10:03 <hhalpin> ... would like to share one point
16:10:11 <hhalpin> ... as regards xml syntax rdf
16:10:22 <hhalpin> ... in xml, we have cardinality restrictions
16:10:35 <hhalpin> ... richard has created a rdf syntax mapping
16:10:44 <hhalpin> ... we need to get it at the schema level
16:10:57 <hhalpin> ... for xml schema we'd like to transfer every bit to RDF schema
16:11:11 <hhalpin> ... which means to get cardinality we'd have to with OWL
16:11:17 <hhalpin> ... but then we can do mapping
16:11:20 <hhalpin> ... validation
16:11:42 <Ashok> present: Souri, Seema, Juan, Lee, Harry, Ted, Ashok, Nuno
16:11:54 <hhalpin> q+
16:12:14 <hhalpin> ack hhalpin
16:13:09 <Ashok> Harry:  Advantage of XML schema is that it provides validation
16:13:43 <Ashok> ... RDFS and OWL does not give us that because they are based on open-world assumption
16:14:07 <hhalpin> Turtle syntax
16:15:41 <hhalpin> even something really drafty is fine.
16:16:36 <hhalpin> feel free to e-mail me as well if eric doesn't get back quickly re cvs issues.
16:16:54 <Seema> sure thanks!
16:17:16 <hhalpin> 4. Semantics debate
16:17:53 <hhalpin> ashok: there should be one default mapping document
16:18:00 <hhalpin> ... could you guys get together and unify things.
16:18:12 <hhalpin> juan: I think this document does it.
16:18:30 <hhalpin> ... folks who have read and understood Eric's document
16:18:40 <hhalpin> ... would see that it would expense
16:18:56 <hhalpin> ... I've also ran it by Microsoft, but the reaction was
16:19:10 <hhalpin> ... was to make sure the notation is something people would be comfortable.
16:19:18 <hhalpin> ... hoping to get more feedback from Microsoft.
16:19:23 <hhalpin> ashok: how about other companies?
16:19:36 <hhalpin> juan: I'm working with IBM now
16:19:40 <hhalpin> ashok: can help with contacts here.
16:21:38 <LeeF> LeeF has joined #rdb2rdf
16:25:46 <juansequeda> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/wiki/Default_Mapping
16:26:06 <hhalpin> ashok: would like to run
16:26:09 <Ashok> I suggest Juan, Eric and Mareclo to go off and create a single default mapping document
16:26:41 <Ashok> s/Mareclo/Marcelo/
16:26:42 <hhalpin> Juan: we use a datalog notation
16:26:54 <hhalpin> ... we have some predicates that build these URIs
16:27:26 <hhalpin> ... stemURI/name of relation, URI for key of that relationship, you can concat all the primary keys
16:27:46 <hhalpin> ... the precise default generation is up for further discussion
16:27:56 <hhalpin> souri: you include foreign key URIs in attribute URIs for that scheme
16:28:00 <hhalpin> juan: we have that as a tuple URI
16:28:17 <hhalpin> ... we could have that as a tuple URI
16:28:24 <hhalpin> souri: a foreign key is like a virtual column
16:28:30 <hhalpin> ... more like an attribute URI so to speak
16:28:44 <hhalpin> ... four subsections
16:28:50 <hhalpin> .. x is rdf:type y
16:28:54 <hhalpin> mapping template 
16:31:21 <hhalpin> [juan goes through document in detail]
16:32:28 <hhalpin> juan: these rules seem to cover all the defaults
16:32:40 <hhalpin> ... will write it all down in R2RML syntax
16:33:35 <hhalpin> ashok: the difference is you guys use Datalog and Eric uses a set-oriented syntax, that's it?
16:33:49 <hhalpin> juan: the rules he are using are like a BNF, and we are using production rules
16:34:01 <hhalpin> ... only 4 cases
16:34:16 <hhalpin> ... eric has 20 cases
16:34:28 <hhalpin> q+
16:34:37 <hhalpin> ... we all should have done that
16:34:41 <hhalpin> ... and it's taken me time
16:34:45 <hhalpin> ... two weeks working on this
16:34:45 <juansequeda> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/wiki/Default_Mapping_to_RDFS/OWL
16:35:15 <hhalpin> juan: schema = ontology, we need both.
16:35:23 <hhalpin> ack hhalpin
16:37:21 <hhalpin> souri: that document is fairly simple to understand
16:37:25 <hhalpin> ... they can understand it.
16:37:32 <hhalpin> ... they may not want to spend more than 5 minutes
16:37:48 <hhalpin> ... so they can see the different kinds
16:37:53 <hhalpin> ... if we have an example, then we get it.
16:38:28 <hhalpin> ... if there is an accompanying document like this, then if we can get a formal semantics.
16:38:53 <hhalpin> q?
16:38:58 <hhalpin> Zakim, who's on the phone?
16:38:58 <Zakim> On the phone I see nunolopes (muted), juansequeda, Ashok_Malhotra, MacTed (muted), Souri, hhalpin, Seema
16:39:15 <juansequeda> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/directGraph/
16:39:23 <hhalpin> souri: I don't remember Eric's document too well...
16:39:46 <hhalpin> LeeF, you there?
16:39:48 <MacTed> Zakim, unmute me
16:39:48 <Zakim> MacTed should no longer be muted
16:39:50 <hhalpin> iv_an_ru?
16:39:56 <nunolopes> Zakim, unmute me
16:39:56 <Zakim> nunolopes should no longer be muted
16:40:14 <hhalpin> MacTed: datalog seems better overall.
16:40:19 <juansequeda> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/wiki/Semantics_of_R2RML
16:40:24 <nunolopes> Zakim, mute me
16:40:24 <Zakim> nunolopes should now be muted
16:40:46 <nunolopes> Zakim, unmute me
16:40:46 <Zakim> nunolopes should no longer be muted
16:41:00 <Souri> q+
16:41:12 <hhalpin> nuno: fine with datalog semantics, but can't speak for implementers
16:41:15 <hhalpin> ack Souri
16:41:20 <hhalpin> souri?
16:41:32 <nunolopes> Zakim, mute me
16:41:32 <Zakim> nunolopes should now be muted
16:41:35 <hhalpin> juan: IBM and Microsoft seem to prefer datalog as well.
16:41:51 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me
16:41:51 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted
16:41:51 <hhalpin> souri: datalog seems simpler to me, a bit more precise
16:46:58 <Ashok> Harry:  We should produce FPWDs first then create some test cases that people can play with
16:47:01 <MacTed> +1
16:47:14 <hhalpin> ashok: we seem to get have consensus with.
16:47:57 <MacTed> OpenLink is likely to implement both.
16:48:11 <hhalpin> souri: we already have a prototype that works with both, including R2RML syntax
16:48:14 <hhalpin> ... a few months
16:48:36 <Ashok> Souri:  Oracle will implement
16:49:31 <hhalpin> juan: we will do mapping language, but we plan to implement the mapping languge
16:49:44 <hhalpin> Zakim, who's on the phone?
16:49:44 <Zakim> On the phone I see nunolopes (muted), juansequeda, Ashok_Malhotra, MacTed (muted), Souri, hhalpin, Seema
16:49:48 <Souri> At Oracle, we plan to implement the mapping language
16:50:03 <hhalpin> ashok: probably d2rq
16:50:09 <hhalpin> ... what about microsoft?
16:50:15 <hhalpin> juan: will ask
16:51:14 <MacTed> crazy talk!
16:51:34 <hhalpin> anyways, just a thought MacTed :)
16:52:00 <Souri> I am at risk for next week's telecon
16:52:50 <Zakim> -Souri
16:52:53 <Zakim> -Seema
16:52:54 <Zakim> -MacTed
16:52:56 <hhalpin> trackbot, end meeting
16:52:56 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
16:52:56 <Zakim> -nunolopes
16:52:56 <Zakim> -Ashok_Malhotra
16:52:57 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
16:52:57 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/09/14-rdb2rdf-minutes.html trackbot
16:52:57 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been +3539149aaaa, nunolopes, +1.512.471.aabb, Ashok_Malhotra, +1.781.273.aacc, juansequeda, MacTed, +1.603.897.aadd, Souri, hhalpin,
16:52:58 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
16:52:58 <RRSAgent> I see no action items