W3C

Media Fragments Working Group Teleconference

08 Sep 2010

Agenda

See also: IRC log

Attendees

Present
Yves, Raphael, Erik, Davy, Silvia
Regrets
Jack
Chair
Erik
Scribe
Silvia

Contents


<trackbot> Date: 08 September 2010

<erik> scribe: Silvia

<erik> ScribeNick: Silvia

ADMIN

<erik> Date: 08 September 2010

PROPOSED to accept the minutes of the 07 July 2010 telecon:

http://www.w3.org/2010/07/07-mediafrag-minutes.html

<erik> +1

<davy> +1

+1

accepted

LC Period: extension?

erik: should be extended till the end of the month
... we have to close everything for TPAC

Yves: extending till the end of the month beyond TPAC is good to get feedback

<scribe> ACTION: troncy to send reminders to all relevant groups [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/09/08-mediafrag-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-183 - Send reminders to all relevant groups [on RaphaŽl Troncy - due 2010-09-15].

erik: there will be a meeting at TPAC
... Davy, Raphael and Yves will be there - Yves can only make it on Tuesday

<Yves> http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35125/TPAC2010reg/

SPECIFICATION

Discussion (Philip+Yves): media fragment syntax grammar (why segment production rule is not normative?), extensibility, pseudo algorithm code

scribe: has not yet happened

close ACTION-175

<trackbot> ACTION-175 Update the grammar parsing automatically generated code for the URI syntax closed

Yves: we need to discuss extension points
... that will trigger what we define as valid media fragments
... will have to wait until next week when we can talk with Philip

<Yves> related also to http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-fragment/2010Sep/0000.html

erik: we'll discuss it next week

PUBLIC COMMENTS

Image sprite in HTML5: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-fragment/2010May/0061.html

erik: this is related to a discussion on the WHATWG

Yves: this is about what to do in the UI with spatial media fragments

erik: the point made is that cropping is requested as the UI effect of media fragments

<raphael> please, consider the use case bring by Europeana and sent yesterday

Yves: we may need to support both, highlighting and cropping, and need to differentiate between them

davy: I think it's application-dependent
... I think we should leave that open

<raphael> ... they are very keen to implement the spec and they really would like to have a keyword in the URI that can refer to a description of any arbitrary spatial shape

Yves: in that case we are not controlling what is presented to the user

<raphael> ... the usage would not be retrieval as for the current spatial media fragment, but address and highlight on client a particular shape

silvia: the WHATWG doesn't want to specify the presentation of media fragment URIs in the HTML spec, but wants it to be in our spec
... that's where it belongs in their mind

<raphael> ... what Europeana wants is a way to address any spatial region, with a media fragment URI

silvia: yes, what raphael says - we may need to introduce another means of specifying arbitrary shapes which can then only be used for highlighting

http://lists.whatwg.org/htdig.cgi/whatwg-whatwg.org/2010-July/026937.html

Davy: they should just use the query parameter

silvia: no, they don't want the cropping to happen on the server, they just want the effect to be specified

http://lists.whatwg.org/htdig.cgi/whatwg-whatwg.org/2010-August/027581.html <- the key thread

http://lists.whatwg.org/htdig.cgi/whatwg-whatwg.org/2010-August/028163.html

davy: do you agree with Ian?

silvia: I didn't but I think he has a point
... maybe we have to specify it and it may even apply to all applications
... or we may need to put an extra mechanism in to specify if we want cropping or highlighting

davy: or we can just specify it as cropping for the browser

Yves: it depends on the application and we need to explain that better

silvia: but the problem is that the researchers in Europe also want to use it in the browser, so it's still the same application

<Yves> effect=highlight (with a default of cropping)

silvia: maybe we should create a new scheme for arbitrary selections and they would just be for highlighting

Yves: I was thinking of adding a parameter

Davy: how does that work with multiple dimensions

silvia: we could do that in the temporal domain, too

Yves: I want Jack's input on this

silvia: this discussion is different to what we looked at before: it's only about what is being presented in the application
... we could do something like add an extension to the region, e.g. xywh=x,y,w,h_crop or xywh=x,y,w,h_highlight

erik: we need to discuss in a larger group
... this is only about how to render something, nothing to do with what goes over the wire
... this in fact relates to all three of the comments we received

Robert Sanderson: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-fragment/2010Jul/0010.html <- also

scribe: but the Chris Double comment is different

Chris Double: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-fragment/2010Jun/0099.html

Yves: answer to Chris is: it should always send the header, because in the worst case it will send the whole resource

<scribe> ACTION: Yves to email Chris the reply on when to send the range header [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/09/08-mediafrag-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-184 - Email Chris the reply on when to send the range header [on Yves Lafon - due 2010-09-15].

Yves: Robert wants to be able to extend stuff
... the main issue is that you have no control of what you see on the other end, since the reference URI changes all the time
... this may be an issue
... apart from this, I think it's ok

silvia: I think adding extra name-value parameters to the URI is ok - that's how we built it
... but they want to change the spatial fragment spec, so that's not ok
... they should just add another name-value parameter

erik: seems we need to discuss this next week

Media Fragments in RTSP

close ACTION-182

<trackbot> ACTION-182 Include summary into wiki page closed

erik: philip cannot make it next week - let's have the grammar discussion in two weeks
... next week we will focus on the public comments

TEST CASES

nobody here for it

erik: let's close it here

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: troncy to send reminders to all relevant groups [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/09/08-mediafrag-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: Yves to email Chris the reply on when to send the range header [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/09/08-mediafrag-minutes.html#action02]
 
[End of minutes]

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$Date: 2010/09/08 12:14:37 $