09:02:19 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #mediafrag
09:02:19 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/09/08-mediafrag-irc
09:02:21 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
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09:02:23 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be IA_MFWG
09:02:23 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see IA_MFWG()5:00AM scheduled to start 2 minutes ago
09:02:24 <trackbot> Meeting: Media Fragments Working Group Teleconference
09:02:24 <trackbot> Date: 08 September 2010
09:05:17 <Zakim> IA_MFWG()5:00AM has now started
09:05:24 <Zakim> + +329331aaaa
09:08:45 <Zakim> +Yves
09:09:48 <Yves> Regrets: Jack
09:13:23 <raphael> oups, sorry, I notice indeed that the numbers have changed and paste the wrong ones in the agenda
09:13:32 <raphael> Present+ raphael (irc)
09:13:43 <raphael> zakim, code?
09:13:43 <Zakim> the conference code is 3724 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), raphael
09:14:34 <raphael> this should be the correct numbers Yves, right ?
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09:16:09 <Zakim> + +61.2.801.2.aabb
09:18:37 <erik> scribe: Silvia
09:18:38 <Yves> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-fragment/2010Sep/0001.html
09:18:44 <erik> ScribeNick: Silvia
09:18:51 <erik> chair: Erik
09:19:00 <erik> present: Yves, Raphael, Erik, Davy, Silvia
09:19:05 <silvia> Topic 1. ADMIN
09:19:18 <erik> Date: 08 September 2010
09:19:23 <silvia> PROPOSED to accept the minutes of the 07 July 2010 telecon:
09:19:24 <silvia> http://www.w3.org/2010/07/07-mediafrag-minutes.html
09:19:27 <erik> +1
09:19:30 <davy> +1
09:19:46 <silvia> +1
09:19:51 <silvia> accepted
09:20:01 <silvia> LC Period: extension?
09:20:13 <silvia> erik: should be extended till the end of the month
09:20:25 <silvia> … we have to close everything for TPAC
09:21:03 <silvia> Yves: extending till the end of the month beyond TPAC is good to get feedback
09:21:14 <silvia> ACTION: raphael to send reminders to all gropus
09:21:14 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - raphael
09:22:05 <silvia> ACTION: troncy to send reminders to all relevant groups
09:22:06 <trackbot> Created ACTION-183 - Send reminders to all relevant groups [on Raphaël Troncy - due 2010-09-15].
09:23:13 <silvia> erik: there will be a meeting at TPAC
09:23:35 <silvia> … Davy, Raphael and Yves will be there - Yves can only make it on Tuesday
09:24:27 <Yves> http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35125/TPAC2010reg/
09:25:48 <silvia> TOPIC 2. SPECIFICATION
09:26:08 <silvia> Discussion (Philip+Yves): media fragment syntax grammar (why segment production rule is not normative?), extensibility, pseudo algorithm code
09:26:15 <silvia> … has not yet happened
09:26:58 <silvia> close ACTION-175
09:26:58 <trackbot> ACTION-175 Update the grammar parsing automatically generated code for the URI syntax closed
09:27:45 <silvia> Yves: we need to discuss extension points
09:27:57 <silvia> … that will trigger what we define as valid media fragments
09:28:09 <silvia> … will have to wait until next week when we can talk with Philip
09:28:35 <Yves> related also to http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-fragment/2010Sep/0000.html
09:29:16 <silvia> erik: we'll discuss it next week
09:29:32 <silvia> TOPIC 3. PUBLIC COMMENTS
09:29:44 <silvia> Image sprite in HTML5: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-fragment/2010May/0061.html
09:30:04 <silvia> erik: this is related to a discussion on the WHATWG
09:30:34 <silvia> Yves: this is about what to do in the UI with spatial media fragments
09:31:03 <silvia> erik: the point made is that cropping is requested as the UI effect of media fragments
09:31:21 <raphael> please, consider the use case bring by Europeana and sent yesterday
09:31:22 <silvia> Yves: we may need to support both, highlighting and cropping, and need to differentiate between them
09:31:37 <silvia> davy: I think it's application-dependent
09:31:47 <silvia> … I think we should leave that open
09:31:50 <raphael> ... they are very keen to implement the spec and they really would like to have a keyword in the URI that can refer to a description of any arbitrary spatial shape
09:32:07 <silvia> Yves: in that case we are not controlling what is presented to the user
09:32:16 <raphael> ... the usage would not be retrieval as for the current spatial media fragment, but address and highlight on client a particular shape
09:33:14 <silvia> silvia: the WHATWG doesn't want to specify the presentation of media fragment URIs in the HTML spec, but wants it to be in our spec
09:33:19 <silvia> … that's where it belongs in their mind
09:33:48 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/09/08-mediafrag-minutes.html davy
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09:34:42 <raphael> ... what Europeana wants is a way to address any spatial region, with a media fragment URI
09:34:44 <silvia> silvia: yes, what raphael says - we may need to introduce another means of specifying arbitrary shapes which can then only be used for highlighting
09:35:36 <silvia> http://lists.whatwg.org/htdig.cgi/whatwg-whatwg.org/2010-July/026937.html
09:38:50 <silvia> Davy: they should just use the query parameter
09:39:11 <silvia> silvia: no, they don't want the cropping to happen on the server, they just want the effect to be specified
09:40:22 <silvia> http://lists.whatwg.org/htdig.cgi/whatwg-whatwg.org/2010-August/027581.html <- the key thread
09:41:21 <silvia> http://lists.whatwg.org/htdig.cgi/whatwg-whatwg.org/2010-August/028163.html
09:43:35 <silvia> davy: do you agree with Ian?
09:43:44 <silvia> silvia: I didn't but I think he has a point
09:44:05 <silvia> … maybe we have to specify it and it may even apply to all applications
09:44:22 <silvia> … or we may need to put an extra mechanism in to specify if we want cropping or highlighting
09:44:38 <silvia> davy: or we can just specify it as cropping for the browser
09:44:58 <silvia> Yves: it depends on the application and we need to explain that better
09:46:06 <silvia> silvia: but the problem is that the researchers in Europe also want to use it in the browser, so it's still the same application
09:46:17 <Yves> effect=highlight (with a default of cropping)
09:47:19 <silvia> … maybe we should create a new scheme for arbitrary selections and they would just be for highlighting
09:48:03 <silvia> Yves: I was thinking of adding a parameter
09:48:16 <silvia> Davy: how does that work with multiple dimensions
09:49:22 <silvia> silvia: we could do that in the temporal domain, too
09:49:29 <silvia> Yves: I want Jack's input on this
09:49:52 <silvia> silvia: this discussion is different to what we looked at before: it's only about what is being presented in the application
09:50:40 <silvia> .. we could do something like add an extension to the region, e.g. xywh=x,y,w,h_crop or xywh=x,y,w,h_highlight
09:50:52 <silvia> erik: we need to discuss in a larger group
09:51:03 <silvia> … this is only about how to render something, nothing to do with what goes over the wire
09:51:18 <silvia> … this in fact relates to all three of the comments we received
09:51:39 <silvia> Robert Sanderson: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-fragment/2010Jul/0010.html <- also
09:51:51 <silvia> … but the Chris Double comment is different
09:53:03 <silvia> Chris Double: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-fragment/2010Jun/0099.html
09:53:38 <silvia> Yves: answer to Chris is: it should always send the header, because in the worst case it will send the whole resource
09:53:52 <silvia> ACTION: Yves to email Chris the reply on when to send the range header
09:53:52 <trackbot> Created ACTION-184 - Email Chris the reply on when to send the range header [on Yves Lafon - due 2010-09-15].
09:54:50 <silvia> Yves: Robert wants to be able to extend stuff
09:55:36 <silvia> … the main issue is that you have no control of what you see on the other end, since the reference URI changes all the time
09:55:45 <silvia> … this may be an issue
09:56:02 <silvia> … apart from this, I think it's ok
09:57:11 <silvia> silvia: I think adding extra name-value parameters to the URI is ok - that's how we built it
09:57:21 <silvia> … but they want to change the spatial fragment spec, so that's not ok
09:57:30 <silvia> … they should just add another name-value parameter
09:57:40 <silvia> erik: seems we need to discuss this next week
09:57:52 <silvia> TOPIC . Media Fragments in RTSP
09:57:57 <silvia> TOPIC 4. Media Fragments in RTSP
09:57:58 <Zakim> +??P2
09:58:06 <silvia> close ACTION-182
09:58:06 <trackbot> ACTION-182 Include summary into wiki page closed
09:59:01 <silvia> zakim, +??P2 is philip
09:59:01 <Zakim> sorry, silvia, I do not recognize a party named '+??P2'
09:59:32 <silvia> erik: philip cannot make it next week - let's have the grammar discussion in two weeks
09:59:59 <silvia> … next week we will focus on the public comments
09:59:59 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/09/08-mediafrag-minutes.html davy
10:00:14 <silvia> TOPIC 5. TEST CASES
10:00:26 <silvia> nobody here for it
10:00:36 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/09/08-mediafrag-minutes.html Yves
10:00:44 <silvia> erik: let's close it here
10:01:05 <davy> davy has left #mediafrag
10:01:05 <Zakim> -philip
10:01:07 <Zakim> -Yves
10:01:08 <Zakim> -Erik
10:05:00 <Yves> we should consider meeting in southern hemisphere during (our) winter ;)
10:06:09 <Zakim> disconnecting the lone participant, Silvia, in IA_MFWG()5:00AM
10:06:11 <Zakim> IA_MFWG()5:00AM has ended
10:06:14 <Zakim> Attendees were +329331aaaa, Erik, Davy, Yves, +61.2.801.2.aabb, Silvia, philip
10:08:08 <silvia> Yves: can you check if I am still registered for TPAC?
10:08:18 <silvia> I just removed my reply, so hopefully it's gone
10:08:38 <silvia> YVes: yes, I'd be happy to have meetings here in January or February!
10:08:51 <silvia> btw: we didn't mention OVC, where several of us will be there
10:26:47 <silvia> ah bummer
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