See also: IRC log
<trackbot> Date: 01 April 2010
<dboudreau> mornin' everyone
<MichaelC> zakiim, +1.514 is Denis_Boudreau
<MichaelC> drop item 1
<MichaelC> drop item 2
<MichaelC> drop item 3
<MichaelC> drop item 4
<MichaelC> drop item 5
<MichaelC> drop item 6
<MichaelC> drop item 7
<MichaelC> drop item 8
<trackbot> ACTION-1 -- Cynthia Shelly to write overall approach HTML support of ARIA -- due 2009-12-17 -- CLOSED
<MichaelC> scribe: kford
<scribe> Scribe: KFord
We have a lot on the agenda so starting with priority items.
<trackbot> ACTION-2 -- Cynthia Shelly to deliver draft of change proposal for ARIA additions to HTML 5 by 2009-12-24 -- due 2010-04-01 -- OPEN
Starting with action 2.
Any update from CS on this?
Group believes it will take to the summer to finish.
MS: Can we break this up a bit?
JS: We don't want to dribble in suggestions. What we do with one item may impact others. We've seen this in PF.
MS: Anything is better than saying July.
<oedipus> putting artificial time-constraints on the HTML TF is NOT going to help anyone -- we are WORKING on these issues and have been since HTML5 arrived within w3c
More discussion of implications of keeping actions open for extended time periods.
<JF> +1 there oedipus
CS: We are actively working. It will just take time.
PC: The working group isn't seeing your progress.
GR: That cuts both ways.
PC: It would be helpful to show progress..
<oedipus> GJR: a11y can't be addressed piecemeal
MC: Explains how the group has been making progress. We have some work in a spreadsheet. Maybe we can make this available.
CS: We couold do this but I don't
want to debate with the working group line by line.
... Debating details at this point is a concern.
... Maybe we could set a date for providing a higher level framework, such as the groups of mappings.
... Having the higher level discussion would be good, debating if anchor should override button now isn't.
<oedipus> problem is that HTML5 is being implemented piecemeal without addressing a11y concerns -- case in point CANVAS implementations BEFORE an accessible solution for CANVAS is available -- THAT is NOT helpful
<oedipus> look at the participants who are sponsored and those who are not
<oedipus> getting to last call means re-achieving the HTML4
MS: HTML5 chairs are tasked with getting to last call.
<JF> So why are we pushing this? A timeline was proposed - July - and thta's an answer
JS: You are picking one of the more complicated issues. DEoes this represent a larger frustration?
<oedipus> any entity that wants to pay for dedicated HTML5 a11y work is more then welcome to ante up some funds
More discussion between PC and JS around dates.
<kliehm> I understand the need to progress, but I do not appreciate putting such emotional pressure on people.
<JF> Q: do we want "success" or do we want to meet a deadline?
<oedipus> why is there a double-standard for what the TF does and what the WG does?
<oedipus> amen, JF - we want and DEMAND success
PC: I want people to understand what happened at the AC meeting last week.
<oedipus> the chairs also need to LISTEN to the tf members, not just top-down "do this according to my schedule"
PC: There is material in the
report that calls the progress slow and steady.
... Issues owned by the accessibility task force have been identified as the long trail.
<oedipus> we are being punished for the dysfunctionality of the HTML WG prior to the present change in chairs, editors
CS: Do we need to shift more effort to this and put other items on the back burner like summary?
<oedipus> while this is going on, we are NOT addressing any of the agenda items -- this meta-discussion EVERY week isn't helpful at all
Discussion around whether accessibility mappings should get talked about at F2F.
JS Outlines goals of F2F.
<oedipus> process has now monopolized HALF the meeting time
<Zakim> MichaelC, you wanted to say we could have sub-groups for part of the agenda next week and to say I'm concerned that some of the frustrations expressed in IRC will escalate tension
MC: Proposes that that subgroups are used to help make progress.
<oedipus> i stand by my comments in IRC and by voice
<JF> then let's plan for progress, not for hitting some artificial deadline
MS: We've spent a lot of time here. We should get back to the agenda.
/me who is speaking?
<oedipus> dick bulterman
/me GR can you summarize his comment?
<oedipus> DB: how can i help advance discussion on media issues -- will there be time at the f2f if i push issues to the public-html list
<oedipus> MS: that would be useful
<MikeSmith> take up item 2
DB: Asks how to make progress on some of his issues. Suggestion is to bring it to the list.
<MikeSmith> take up item 18
MS: Please look at the agenda, if you have proposed changes we should know about them.
<MikeSmith> take up item 17
MS: Note F2F venue has changed.
<oedipus> the bentley suite = http://www.holidayinn.com/hotels/gb/en/birmingham/bhxwm/hoteldetail
MC: Meeting page has details.. Meeting is at Holiday Inn, couple blocks from original location.
MC: May also be a possible rail strike. Be aware if this could impact you.
<MikeSmith> item 3
<oedipus> ISSUE-85 escalated from bug: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=8000
<oedipus> ISSUE-85 escalated from bug: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=8000
CS: We are cranking through this. We made progress at a recent PF F2F.
MS: Rich, for canvas we are waiting for work around focus to be done.
RS: What we need to do expose
blink rate to the API so we don't cause issues.
... Hope to be working on this during travel.
<oedipus> change proposal (SteveF) http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Mar/0088.html
RS: The item at
has been sent to the list. Haven't heard much, what's the
status. Can we propose this?
... A change may be coming but that shouldn't block this item.
<paulc> which wg isse is being discussed?
<oedipus> for focus rectangle and caret http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Mar/0088.html
<oedipus> action-12 paulc
<MikeSmith> this is for HTML WG issue 74
<MikeSmith> take up item 5
MS We have a couple proposals that are out there.
/me not hearing EC, can someone capture what he said?
<oedipus> EC: hope to have something written up for face2face on Media Text Associations
<oedipus> MS: Media Text Associations?
<oedipus> EC: correct
<oedipus> EC: this is issue we've been talking about
<oedipus> MS: not clear where blockage is on this proposal
MS: Not clear what this proposal is blocked on.
<oedipus> MS: would like to send out CFC on it
MS: Thinking we should send this out for call for consensus.
DB: Our concerns are that video container has evolved into mixing timings that is beyond presentation of a given piece of media.
MS: I don't think it is too early to send out call for consensus. Dick you should then respond with your points.
Dick: Fine with me.
MS: Please look through bug report and bring any that we should look at in the meeting.
MC: We want this to be an agenda item at F2F.
MS: No new business aside from F2F venue change.
CS: We talked about this at a
high level. On PF call we agreed that removing elements was a
... We were interested in putting voice of task force behind keeping these items.
SF: Eliminating these items is a good idea - allows author to use native semantics without having to add ARIA markup.
JS: I saw one that was out of
scope for us perhaps.
... We should make a list that are accessibility related, review at F2F and make a proposal from task force to take to WG.
<JF> I agree with Janina, there is a fair bit to digest here
PC: It would be helpful to know which of these task force thinks need to keep around.
<oedipus> 2 MINUTE WARNING
MS: Anyone who does comment on these has an obligation to read the full proposal and not just react to titles.
/me MS is breaking up, can anyone else scribe his comment?
MS: I think we need to consider Cynthia's idea of moving mappings higher and also breaking into groups.
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.135 of Date: 2009/03/02 03:52:20 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/level of a11y in HTML5/HTML4/ Succeeded: s/DD: Asks/DB: Asks/ Succeeded: s/rrsagent, amke minutes// Succeeded: s/blick/block/ FAILED: s/blick/block/ Succeeded: s/DD:/DB:/G Succeeded: s/is not a good idea/is a good idea - allows author to use native semantics without having to add ARIA markup/ Succeeded: s/rrsagent, amke minutes//G Found Scribe: kford Inferring ScribeNick: kford Found Scribe: KFord Inferring ScribeNick: kford Default Present: Gregory_Rosmaita, +1.408.307.aaaa, John_Foliot, paulc, Mike, +1.514.312.aabb, Janina, Michael_Cooper, kford, Erik_Carlson Present: +1.408.307.aaaa +1.514.312.aabb Cynthia_Shelly Denis_Boudreau Dick_Bulterman Erik_Carlson Gregory_Rosmaita Janina Jim_Allen John_Foliot Michael_Cooper Mike Rich_S Steve_Faulkner kford paulc Regrets: Slyvia_Pfieffer Aurlien_Levy Dave_Singer Laura_Carlson Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Mar/0566.html Found Date: 01 Apr 2010 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2010/04/01-html-a11y-minutes.html People with action items: WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]