HTML-A11Y telecon

18 Mar 2010


See also: IRC log


+0154558aabb, Ben_Caldwell, Gregory_Rosmaita, Janina, John_Foliot, Joshue, Mike, Rich, Sean_Hayes, kford
Denis_Boudreau, Dick_Bulterman, Eric_Carlson, Geoff_Freed, Laura_Carlson, Sylvia_Pfieffer


<LeifHS> Hi. I will try to present at 16:30. Leif

hi y'all

<scribe> scribe: Joshue

JS: Lets get the agenda going

<janina> agenda: this

JS: I suggests skipping ACTION review
... We are getting good feedback from the wider group re:canvas etc

RS: We made some progress re:boolean att in HTML 5

<richardschwerdtfe> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/canvasaccessibilitynonav

RS: This is a proposal we have, there is good feedback. We have modified to nonav as a boolean @. Its not written as a conformance statement, but advice for authors. Well recieved by wider HTML group.
... We still are working on Chaals proposal and some API mods to 2D.

JS: So this is a perfecting amendment to what we agreed last week? Unless anyone disagrees?
... Is it largely editorial.
... The next step is the 2D focus change proposal

RS: There are diffs in the way Apple implement things vs Windows
... For example, the blink rate, we have to be careful about triggering seizures etc, am busy with SXSW and CSUN etc

JS: Yes, there is a lot of traffic about his, excellent.

RS: I have a question for the HTML WG chairs, how do we position Issue 72?

MS: No one on call at the mo.

JS: I said last week that this is a partial resolution.
... There will be three parts, Focus, 2D and Chaals proposal
... The subteam thought the first two would be acceptable and then enhanced by Chaals

<oedipus> agree with JS' synopsis

RS: I would agree with that

JS: This is a strong proposal in toto
... Anything else?

<oedipus> GJR: chaals' suggestion involves changing HTML5 definition of imagemap in order to work properly -- the prognosis for that is not very good

RS: Its a lot of work for an attribute!

Media Sub Team

JS: We spoke on this last week
... We talked about media in the PF call yest, also in WAI CG call. We are a little blocked, we discussed what may be resolutions and the result was..lets take another look at the wiki requirements doc. We assigned some action items etc, put out a call for changes and edits etc and or ommissions.
... That should take a couple of weeks, may not resolve but will help.

Is this time stamps or media codecs?

JS: We didn't talk codecs
... We tried to understand everyones positons.
... If we do too little, it could be a prob
... We need the right balance, the media group, PF , HTML so we have some extra people looking.
... On the API there was a chance to move this a little, I wasn't fully up to speed and some of us may not be, but we have some actions to remedy this.

<oedipus> GJR has action item to reveiw API and solicit review from DAISY

JS: We are not delaying by much to ask for people to look at this for us, based on past experience it is useful.
... Is there more to say JF?

JF: Not that I am aware of, the biggest issue seems to be time stamp. I am a little out of the loop but I don't see a lot of action.
... Dick is working on a proposal, don't know where to go from here.
... Sylvias idea also needs to be worked on.

JS: As Mike pointed out the big issue may be styling.
... There are some disagreements.

JF: There is not structure to SRT time etc, we need something extensible. So the question is what can we do to provide one?

JS: Right

JF: We need something beside SRT but we don't know what it is.

<oedipus> GJR still maintains that SRT is a non-starter

JS: Also worried that we can save in extra features, it is a reasonable idea but may be an issue with standards developement. If experience is correct.

JF: Yes.
... DFXP has some appeal, as with profiles we can evolve greater support.

<oedipus> GJR whatever is used needs to meet a11y requirements NOW -- SRT would need an add-on / work to integrate what one gets with SMILText for free

JF: There are issues, this would be a good start that we can build upon.

<MikeSmith> a couple points: the styling mechanism in DFXP -- even if it is profiled -- is not compatible with browsers; and it is imaginable that SRT could be extended to include styling

JF: So the standard can be the W3C DFXP format.

<Zakim> oedipus, you wanted to say SRT extension is a non-starter

JS: Sounds like a possibilty, any comments?

GJR: I am against SRT (strongly)..if implemented there is no a11y capabilities like with SMIL

MS: Yes, but if everyone takes a strong position then we won't reach agreement.

<Zakim> MikeSmith, you wanted to comment

MS: So it is not prudent to say that SRT is a non-runner, we won't reach agreement.

JF: We have to provide an extensible mechanism from the get go.

MS: If we agree to start with a profile DFXP, we will not get that implemented.
... The browser maker say that is not the ideal soltuion for them

<oedipus> MikeSmith, if SRT is used it has to meet the a11y requirments identified by the TF BEFORE it is implemented in HTML5 -- otherwise, we are codifying a less-than-accessible alternative with only the promise of future work on SRT to support a11y features/requirements

<oedipus> http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/44061/media-text-format/results

JF: We can't just have one, this is a standard. We are writing a standard.

MS: <disagrees>

GJR: John and I are saying of SRT gets into HTML, SRT itself must be tweaked to support a11y

<LeifHS> @oedipus Chaals has said that it is *not* /necessary/ to change the HTML5 definition of image maps

GJR: SRT can create a black hole

JF: There is a lot of stuff in HTML that is not implemented.
... We need to ensure that an extensible format is locked in.

<LeifHS> oedipus: I think he said so 2 weeks ago, in this meeting.

<LeifHS> (I will call in if the @summary comes up ...)

SH: We have an implementation of DFXP, that is almost complete and would be happy to put it in the spec. So I don't see it as a non starter.
... The biggest thing is to get something in the spec, we are against shipping deadlines.

MS: I agree
... I asked JF, what styling mech does it use?

<JF> Adobe is already supporting DFXP today

SH: It is a self contained system. DFXP has an advantage as it doesn't rely on browser components.

JS: So Microsoft would be ok with a spec that relied on DFXP.

SH:Yes, I can't speak for the people at IE, but in my conversations with them it seems our main issue is getting something concrete into the spec.

JS: What about SMIL?

SH: We would prefer DFXP.

<oedipus> http://www.w3.org/TR/smil/

SH: SMIL is huge, I would have to look at it.
... DFXP is based a lot on SMIL, it is a subset.

JS: This is important info.
... Any other comments?
... We will talk about his in B'mingham.
... Also on the phone
... We need a resolution that works on many levels.

<LeifHS> @oedipus Here is what Chaals said 4th of march: "Chaals: HTML5 imagemap model actually can support Chaals"

JF: I will be on the phone

<oedipus> http://www.w3.org/TR/ttaf1-dfxp/#dfxp-content-doctype

<MikeSmith> expensive because of Easter holiday, I think

SH: I will be back for the next media installment.

I'll be there

<MikeSmith> I will be there

<oedipus> GJR will remotely participate

<JF> JF remotely attending

JS: Who is coming?
... We need people who are participating here, we needs champs, we'll do that via mail.
... I don't know if he is.

<LeifHS> @oedipus But he added that "HTML5 spec doesn't yet work, HTML4 does". (Me: May be both could need some tuning ...)

JS: Lets look at Lauras latest bug report

Bug report

<oedipus> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Mar/0354.html

GJR: I got it.

<oedipus> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Bugs/Weekly_Resolved_and_Rejected_Bugs_Reports

JS: We need to look at Bug 7721: "Drag and Drop is not keyboard accessible" reported by Rich



<oedipus> drag and drop: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=7721

JS: Can some tag these as we go.
... Mike

<oedipus> audio and video syncronization: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=5758

They seem to be all tagged btw

<oedipus> canvas needs a11y fallback: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=7011

<oedipus> title where alt ommited: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=7362

<oedipus> @summary not obsoltete: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=7539

MS: Whats happening, along with some others, discussed this with Maciej. There are a lot of bugs that have changed to verify status and there is a note saying that a response is requested in two weeks. That is why this is on the list.

<oedipus> encourage use of @summary: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=7633

JS: We should just re-open?

MS: Yes, just re-open them.

JS: Ok
... What Laura is saying the other bugs were re-opened by Maciej?

MS: I will check them one by one

<oedipus> closed bug progress element should be labelable with label: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=8554 (Maciej)

MS: 7011 is the same, am re-opening
... 7632, 7539 same

<MikeSmith> 8554

MS: What about 8554, we need someone to evaluate?

<MikeSmith> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=8554

MS: Is there much more that needs to be done with this?
... Seems to be resolved.
... Lets leave that one.

JS: Yup
... Now, re-opened bugs, lets jump to Cat 5 and see if we agree with tagging them.

<MikeSmith> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=9241

JF: 9231 and 9233 are somewhat linked.

sorry John, I got the second bug wrong, please edit

<kford> Zakim/me can someone post the bug link again, my IRC lost the buffer

JS: In the W3C schema should come from WAI and WCAG, authoring tools etc. We are missing techniques for other things.

MS: These are a little different, as JF said.
... Lets take that to the list

JS: The consensus seems to be lets just link to the appropriate document as required.
... Would you do that?

JF: Yup

MS: There is a non trivial cost to taking up these issues with the TF.
... We need to agree criteria for our descisions to take on issues.

Is that not just based on importance?

MS: Could you take that to the list, that would be great?

I get ya

JS: Yes, it takes time

MS: At one extreme we just take them all on.
... But we should decide where and how to draw the line.

JS: Michael did try to group them to make it easier.

MS: It is a matter of cycles

JF: We are all going to be very busy for the next few weeks.

RS: the new 508 draft came out yest

MS: 9216 has been discussed a lot lately, that is a priority. What do people think?

9216: "Provide a CAPTCHA example that is in accord with WCAG 2 or

Defer to "HTML5: Techniques for providing useful text alternatives'"

JS: We can tag it as an issue and take it up with the group.

<oedipus> laura's email delineating process on CAPTCHA: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Mar/0391.html

JF: Laura mailed me on this.
... Would it be useful to do a survey?

JS: Yes

MS: If Laura has done the work..

JF: The questions are there.

MS: Ok, I can do this

<oedipus> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Mar/0391.html

MS: Should we wait a little?
... Or do it today?

JF: Late next week may be better

JS: Yes

MS: Ok

<MikeSmith> so I will get a WBS survey drafted up, using Laura's message as the basis, with plan to get it out at the end of next week

JS: We are at the hour, no meeting next week. Tune in on 1st April.
... Anything else?

Summary of Action Items

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Default Present: +1.650.862.aaaa, Gregory_Rosmaita, +0154558aabb, Janina, Ben_Caldwell, Rich, John_Foliot, kford, Joshue, Sean_Hayes, Mike
Present: +0154558aabb Ben_Caldwell Gregory_Rosmaita Janina John_Foliot Joshue Mike Rich Sean_Hayes kford
Regrets: Denis_Boudreau Dick_Bulterman Eric_Carlson Geoff_Freed Laura_Carlson Sylvia_Pfieffer
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Mar/0379.html
Got date from IRC log name: 18 Mar 2010
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2010/03/18-html-a11y-minutes.html
People with action items: 

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