HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference

11 Mar 2010


See also: IRC log


Ben_Caldwell, Dick_Bulterman, Eric_Carlson, Geoff_Freed, Gregory_Rosmaita, Janina, Matt, Michael_Cooper, Mike, Mike_Barta, Rich, Stevef, paulc
Kelly_Ford, Aurélien_Levy, Jon_Gunderson, Markku_Hakkinen, Denis_Boudreau, Laura_Carlson, Marco_Ranon


<trackbot> Date: 11 March 2010

<MikeSmith> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Mar/0186.html

<MikeSmith> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Scribe_List

<MichaelC> Meeting: HTML-A11Y telecon

<oedipus> FYI canvas subgroup telecon minutes (2010-03-08)

<oedipus> FYI canvas subgroup telecon minutes (2010-03-08) http://www.w3.org/2010/03/08-html-a11y-minutes.html

<MichaelC> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Mar/0186.html

<MikeSmith> scribe: Stevef

decision on Canvas navsubstree proposal to HTML WG: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Mar/0014.html

<oedipus> canvas subgroup telecon minutes (2010-03-08) http://www.w3.org/2010/03/08-html-a11y-minutes.html

Mike: navsubtree has greater agreement at this point, anyone object to sending ot html wg for wider review

<oedipus> discussion of ADom and imagemap approaches: http://www.w3.org/2010/03/08-html-a11y-minutes.html#item02

janina: will be couple of additional pieces coming later including focus proposal

<oedipus> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/canvasaccessibility

<oedipus> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/Map4NotAdom

<oedipus> rich's proposal email: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-canvas-api/2010JanMar/0276.html

rich: 2 other proposals 1 focus and caret tracking and image map 2. image map, need to work on with chaals,

<oedipus> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/12

<oedipus> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/19

mike: record a resolution to put navsubtree proposal forward, and give people 48 hours to object, but needs more wider discussion
... will put in language for proposed resolution as placeholder until agreed

<MikeSmith> PROPOSED RESOLUTION: The a11y TF resolves that the canvas navsubtree proposal is ready for wider review by the HTML WG, with the understanding that the a11y TF supports it principle and the related proposals needed to fully resolve the issue are still under discussion and will be forthcoming.

<oedipus> plus 1

<richardschwerdtfe> +1

<oedipus> plus 1 with removal of "in principle"

<inserted> scribnick: oedipus

<inserted> scribenick: oedipus

SF: Rich asking for change proposal for HTML WG wiki? this is spec ready text, right?

RS: Maciej said need justification for why we are doing it on the wiki

<MikeSmith> PROPOSED RESOLUTION: The a11y TF resolves that the canvas navsubtree proposal is ready for wider review by the HTML WG, with the understanding that the a11y TF supports it and that related proposals needed to fully resolve the issue are still under discussion and will be brought to the HTML WG later.

SF: i can create the necessary wiki page -- then get input required for rationale

MS: do need the wiki page, if you can volunteer, it would be great

SF: will mock it up today

RS: SteveF, you'll set up

SF: yes -- will send URI to TF list -- need to reveiew rationale to ensure has all required info

RS: reveiw period?

MS: 48 hours

RS: ok

MC: 48 hour period -- web based survey or call for objections on mailing list

<MikeSmith> RESOLUTION: The a11y TF resolves that the canvas navsubtree proposal is ready for wider review by the HTML WG, with the understanding that the a11y TF supports it and that related proposals needed to fully resolve the issue are still under discussion and will be brought to the HTML WG later.

MS: call for objections on list
... action for SteveF to write up change proposal in way HTML WG requires

status of Canvas focuse proposal: http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/canvasaccessibility

<inserted> scribenick: Stevef

mike: rich please update us

<oedipus> RESOLVED: The a11y TF resolves that the canvas navsubtree proposal is ready for wider review by the HTML WG, with the understanding that the a11y TF supports it and that related proposals needed to fully resolve the issue are still under discussion and will be brought to the HTML WG later.

Rich: 1 tried to be inline with 2d spec, merged caret/focus. and maciej had same concern , asking to spereate caret out. bit in spec about who draws focus ring waiting for clarification. will then write proposal update, hopeing to have it ready in the next couple of weeks

<oedipus> SF: need clarification from hixie

<oedipus> RS: sent to maciej - first canvas implementation by apple

decision on Multitrack API proposal to HTML WG: http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Media_MultitrackAPI

<oedipus> http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/44061/multitrack-api/results

mike: eric please summarise state of agreement

eric: sylvia sent out a summary of things that need to be changed in the spec in regards to multitrack api
... believe it had consensus

mike: to do resolution

<oedipus> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Mar/0177.html

<oedipus> http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/44061/text-associations/

<MikeSmith> PROPOSED RESOLUTION: The a11y TF resolves that the Multitrack API proposal -- after Silvia makes the changes she outlined by e-mail -- is ready for wider review by the HTML WG, with the understanding that the a11y TF supports it and that related proposals needed to fully resolve the related issue are still under discussion and will be brought to the HTML WG later.

<oedipus> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Mar/0178.html

<MikeSmith> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Mar/0199.html <- Dick's message

dick: minority opinion re tracks proposal, form our SMIL experienece, things being merged, not particularly clean and locks into approach, should decouple slection and synchronization, proposal doesn't handle it cleanly, not a wise combination from SMIL experienec

<MikeSmith> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Mar/0203.html <- Philip's reply

eric: i don't think we are too far down the path to change, if something else makes more sens, maybe we hold of on sending to html wg to discuss further

<oedipus> plus 1 to eric

janina: also would like discussion on TF call before sending to WG

eric: hoped people who had an opinion would have jumped in on mailing list discussion

dick: will provide SMIL examples of approach, design philosophy
... do not want to obstruct but think there are things current proposal does not cover

mike: more discussion is good, so go for it
... better to take more mature proposal

eric: issue will come up so need to talk more

Mike: would be nice to expidite it and value in getting wider discussion
... will look at it start of next week status check

status of TextAssociations proposal: http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Media_TextAssociations

mike: text association proposal, eric summary?

<oedipus> http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/44061/media-text-format/?

eric: sylvia went through all emails, summarised issues that need to eb addressed before we send to wider group, not a long list of changes

<oedipus> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Mar/0177.html

<MikeSmith> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Mar/0177.html

mike: more discussion on formats is neceserry, will need to move file formats from change request
... some people won't support this

<oedipus> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Media_TextAssociations

mike: we have a choice, the file formats part is what we don't have agreement on, but sylvia thinks this won't happen soon, so remove from proposal
... anybody on the call today object from removing the formats section for now?

<oedipus> sylvia: "not clear what requirements would necessitate more than just srt - I am planning on a separate discussion thread as soon as the format survey is closed. For now we will probably need to remove the section about file formats from the change request "

eric: if we remove ot from the propsoal, have to have wording to say why , with a goal to coming up with some format requirment as this will never fly unless we have some sort of format reuirement

<oedipus> http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/44061/text-associations/

<oedipus> http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/44061/text-associations/results

dick: formatting issue, what is mandated, needs to be a set of requirements for short to middle term, other part of proposal from my perspective links selection and synchronization together same problem as previouys
... many synchronization concerns glossed over, have these things been talked about, are we interetsed in feedback?

mike: does seem we have agreement that the requirements aren't clear, what would neccesitate more than SRT, does not ste what format is needed

<oedipus> FWIW: strongly believe that the popularity of SRT is NOT a reason for it to supersede other formats in HTML5; its widespread use warrants consideration for its inclusion but NOT at the expense of other formats -- especially SmilText -- which support advanced text-display features which are NOT part of SRT

mike: if we do remove then put disclaimer in to say that this cannot be implemented unless we decide on formats. we are waiting on sylvia to change proposal

dick: multicolored text, or styled text has this disucssion taken place or have the issues been resolved

eric: don't think we have had discussions about whether styling is a requirement

GeoffF: need to discuss these to resiolve format issue, i think to move things forward good idea to move format discussion out of current proposal

mike: need to list iut the potential set of format requirements, but it is pretty clear the proposal is not ready, take some more time, sylvia needs to make chnages and back out to list for more discussion

dick: can this be discussed at f2f

mike: yes we can, nee to discuss f2f agenda

<paulc> the TF should have a concrete plan to decide what to do at the F2F and what NOT to do at the F2F and will be done separately.

dick: don't know who is going to be there

f2f planning for April 6-7 meeting

mike: f2f agenda planning: topics?
... jeff will not be ther inperson, but via phone, eric will be there, philip from opera may not be there
... should be high on agenda, but may not get much done if right people are not attending
... MC , JS agendas?

<MikeSmith> paulc, can you speak briefly on the call today to give some suggestions about how best to plan for the f2f?

janina: list of topcs, may be useful to look at the list, also poepl to adopt items from list

<MichaelC> Topic List

cyns: is API mapping on there/

paulC; how is it that mapping is an issue?

cyns: indivdiual bugs for individual issues

<paulc> See http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/138

<oedipus> SF: been response to some of statement of issues; some sorted, some unsorted; action for production of matrix still in progress; will work on it second day of PF face2face at CSUN

<oedipus> CS: easier to do in person

<paulc> If this action is generating bugs rather than related to existing bugs that is a good explanation.

can somebody scribe now, i have to go


<oedipus> scribenick: oedipus

<paulc> Paul suggests that the facilitators clearly define what issues will be on the F2F agenda and what actions the TF plans to take at the F2F.

MS: trying to figure out if specific action anyone can take on f2f planning; Janina and i need to get proposed agenda out A.S.A.P.; prior to that, more specific info about what needed to do to get agenda ready?

CS: phone bridge?

MC: made sure is a possibility for them

CS: can't travel to england that week

JS: there is a U.K. phone number to access Zakim

MS: Cooper, anything else to do in last 7 minutes to get closer to prep for f2f

CS: something that might help is to ask those who can't attend or call in to submit position paper or similar if want to make point; find a champion who is attending

JS: list that MSmit read off -- first half have tackled and are at some stage of resulution
... bottom half of list haven't started on at all -- some of those might move forward if can get volunteers to come up with proposals

MS: sounds possible; worry about adding more stuff to f2f discussion plans because don't want it to be overwhelming;

<paulc> I have to leave to get ready to scribe the HTML WG meeting. Thanks.

MS: adding more topics may risk productivity

JS: long, prolonged controversial items, yes, but some low-hanging fruit like headers/id, and summary

MS: have starting point for list of f2f topics
... paul advised to distill down to specific topics
... about to loose a lot of partipants due to commencement of HTML WG telecon
... Janina, chair next week?

JS: yes; may be a lot of people missing in 2 weeks due to CSUN

MS: will be in cambridge, mass on 25 march 2010

JS: try to hold meeting or skip?

MS: decide next week
... make agenda item for next week -- meeting on 25 march 2010

JS: reminder - U.S. goes to Daylight Savings Time on Sunday, 14 march 2010 - meetings an hour earlier (w3c time pegged to E.S.T.)

CS: unable to participate much before CSUN



Summary of Action Items

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Succeeded: i/SF: Rich asking for change/scribnick: oedipus
Succeeded: i/mike: rich please update/scribenick: Stevef
Succeeded: i/SF: Rich asking for change/scribenick: oedipus
Succeeded: s/wbgh: need to/GeoffF: need to/
Succeeded: s/mike@ f2f/mike: f2f/
Found Scribe: Stevef
Inferring ScribeNick: Stevef
Found ScribeNick: oedipus
Found ScribeNick: Stevef
Found ScribeNick: oedipus
ScribeNicks: Stevef, oedipus
Default Present: Janina, Stevef, Michael_Cooper, Mike, Gregory_Rosmaita, Dick_Bulterman, Rich, Eric_Carlson, Matt, Ben_Caldwell, paulc, +1.617.300.aaaa, Geoff_Freed, Mike_Barta
Present: Ben_Caldwell Dick_Bulterman Eric_Carlson Geoff_Freed Gregory_Rosmaita Janina Matt Michael_Cooper Mike Mike_Barta Rich Stevef paulc
Regrets: Kelly_Ford Aurélien_Levy Jon_Gunderson Markku_Hakkinen Denis_Boudreau Laura_Carlson Marco_Ranon
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Mar/0186.html
Found Date: 11 Mar 2010
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2010/03/11-html-a11y-minutes.html
People with action items: 

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