HTML Weekly Teleconference

11 Feb 2010


See also: IRC log




trackbot, start meeting

<trackbot> Date: 11 February 2010

<anne> I don't have a working Skype so I won't be able to attend

<anne> If any more updates to html5-diff are needed please email, I'll get to it tomorrow or so.

<paulc> Thanks, anne.

<paulc> I will mention the diffs status for you when we get to agenda item 3

<paulc> who is CAI-1?


<scribe> scribe: rubys

1. ACTION items due by Thu Jan 28

<paulc> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2010Feb/0261.html

ACTION-127 on Maciej Stachowiak

paulc: there's been one comment, but no other comment. Can we close the action now?

masinter: I'm trying to figure out at what point do people get to make comments?

paulc: is that a comment you can make on the thread?

masinter: we should see the final result before we approve it

paulc: this is a never ending loop... it is out for comments

masinter: it wasn't clear to me

<Julian> are we all talking about the same issue?

paulc: I believe that the plan is to start to use this policy, and I expect that we will need some changes in the future

close action-127

<trackbot> ACTION-127 establish process for "official WG response" to other WG's RFC on LC drafts closed

ACTION-163 on Michael(tm) Smith

MikeSmith: it is done, we can close the item. Everything is moved over. The old wiki is readonly now.

Paulc: link to the new wiki?

<MikeSmith> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/Main_Page

close action-163

<trackbot> ACTION-163 MediaWiki successor for current MoinMoin based wiki closed

<masinter> when there are comments on a document, the editor makes edits to respond to the comments, and the editor's response is reviewed by the group to make sure the group agrees to the editor's edit. If Maciej is editor of this document, then he should update it to respond to the comments on it. The comment was: the working group doesn't have an opportunity to review the proposed working group response before the working group's response is

<masinter> set.

action-168: H:TML

paulc: I made some comments

MikeSmith: I believe I've addressed them

<masinter> The TAG had requested that it contain the RELAX-NG schema visible

MikeSmith: some parts won't show up until I flip the status to FPWD. I need a date.

PaulC: I'm not going to predict the date

<MikeSmith> http://dev.w3.org/html5/markup/

close action-168

<trackbot> ACTION-168 Prepare H:TML for First Public Working Draft closed

<masinter> i updated the status of the action

ACTION-172 open Insure Change Proposal for ISSUE-4 (versioning) also covers ISSUE-84

<masinter> action-172?

<trackbot> ACTION-172 -- Larry Masinter to insure Change Proposal for ISSUE-4 (versioning) also covers ISSUE-84 (legacy doctype) -- due 2010-02-18 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/172

masinter: we are still discussing this in the tag
... I updated the date to the 18th
... that discussion is occuring on www-tag

<masinter> uoting: 2010-02-10 17:49:18: Looks like I might get help from TAG, see, for example, TAG action 388 http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/388 and http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/368, and "goals" for this change proposal at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2010Feb/0095.html

<masinter> [Larry Masinter]

masinter: I updated the action to point to this discussion

ACTION-174 open Send info about IETF IRI working group

<masinter> action-174?

<trackbot> ACTION-174 -- Larry Masinter to send info about IETF IRI working group, next meeting, mailing list, status of documents, etc., to HTML WG -- due 2010-02-15 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/174

masinter: I postponed this by a few days

paulc: other action items will be convered in the i11y tf discussion

Update on publishing new drafts

paulc: we now have a diffs doc and a call for consensus
... all of the comments on the diffs document are being worked

<paulc> CfC: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2010Feb/0262.html

paulc: any questions?

<masinter> do I need to repeat objections?

paulc: the co-chairs are aware of the formal objection

rubys: it would be helpful to repeat the objection

paulc: it would be helpful to people who aren't reading w3-archive email

plh: we won't approve the FPWDs until the FO is resolved

<masinter> sure, i'll forward my comment on scope

paulc: plh and larry, can you post the FO on the public-html list and the affects on the plans?

(plh and larry each agree)

4. WG Decision Policy

paulc: people should look at the bugzilla entries


<Laura> HTML WG Process Bug List

<Laura> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/buglist.cgi?product=HTML+WG&component=working+group+Decision+Policy

paulc: any questions?

larry: it is baffling to me what the process is for dealing with the bugzilla bugs. Feels like Nomic.

<masinter> "Nomic"

paulc: we documented your questions as bugs, and decided to track transparently the comments we receive and how we are disposing of them.
... this is no different than the W3C Process document. If a person makes a comment, a bug is opened.

larry: who processes bugs on the bug reports?

paulc: we documented this in public, put out a call for consensus, and made it clear that we are going to start using it as early as possible.
... we have had comments on it. In order to track those comments, we are simply using bugzilla to create a transparent history.

<Laura> Will the process bugs have an escalation process to the tracker?

paulc: I put this on the agenda to ensure that everybody is aware. There was somebody not aware last week, and I pointed him to bugzilla, and there is a new bug.

masinter: the answer to my question is that the chairs will make changes

<masinter> got it

paulc: the chairs will propose changes and come back to the wg

<Laura> thanks

paulc: (re Laura's q) the chairs haven't discussed this, but we would certainly consider doing that...

<masinter> i think the issue is that the working group process needs to follow the W3C Process, and that escalation should go to the AB

paulc: maybe you should open a bug

<masinter> escalation of process issues

rubys: that would be a reasonable next step after the WG decision

Call For Consensus that close by Feb 11

ISSUE-83: I believe that this is still in process

<trackbot> ISSUE-83 Use of the dt and dd elements in figure and details content models notes added

paulc: issue-83 is resolved

close issue-83

<trackbot> ISSUE-83 Use of the dt and dd elements in figure and details content models closed

Call for Proposals that close


New Calls for Proposals/Consensus this Week

paulc: there has been discussion about issue 27 as to whether we can resolve this issue until the registry has been tested
... I've sent some emails to get some status. The IETF doc is in 2nd last call. It is only after the doc is closed that the registry can be created

Julian: after it has been updated, it needs to to the IESG and then to the RFC editor and then to IANA... we at least are talking 6-8 weeks

paulc: so the question is whether we keep this in limbo for that time
... please update the thread with this info

<masinter> i don't think it's "limbo" when there's a clear path

paulc: we'll leave issues 27 in it current state for now.


paulc: maciej has the ball...

<masinter> issue-88?

<trackbot> ISSUE-88 -- Should meta/@content allow a list of languages instead of just a single language? -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/88

paulc: leave this in its current status and decide next week if a CfC or amicable resolution is the right next step

New Calls for Counter Proposals this Week

ISSUE-66 image-analysis

<paulc> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2010Feb/0260.html

masinter: Matt is on vacation

rubys: this is for counters to Matt's proposal...

paulc: that's useful data, so that we don't misinterpret silence from Matt.

masinter: perhaps others from the a11y tf can help

Testing Task Force

<krisk> We met as a group on 2/9 (see http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-testsuite/2010Feb/0002.html)

<krisk> In addition to reviewing the tracker items and status (see http://www.w3.org/html/wg/test/track/actions/)

<krisk> The biggest discussion was around leveraging the old DOM HTML Test suite.

<krisk> The suite contains a number of tests that are part of HTML5.

<krisk> Though it appears that some tests are not correct or interoperable with current modern browsers.

<krisk> I expect that the testing task force will report back and create a bug, if we indeed need to clarify the HTML5 spec.

paulc: questions? comments?

Accessibility Task Force

<MikeSmith> http://www.w3.org/2010/02/11-html-a11y-minutes.html#item03

paulc: acitons 138, 170, 173...

<MikeSmith> action-138?

<trackbot> ACTION-138 -- Steve Faulkner to produce an ARIA matrix based on Henri's work -- due 2010-02-11 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/138

Mike: the media TF is just getting going, and will have a telecon on the 16th (17th in australia). Sylvia has sent out an agenda.
... the canvas TF is also having a telecon later today. After those telecons, we will have progress to report. Until then no new progress to report on.

<MikeSmith> action-170?

<trackbot> ACTION-170 -- Janina Sajka to update A11Y timeline for tracker related issues -- due 2010-02-11 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/170

<paulc> 170: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2010Feb/0293.html

<MikeSmith> action-173?

<trackbot> ACTION-173 -- Steve Faulkner to update Change Proposal for ISSUE-31 missing-alt -- due 2010-02-10 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/173

paulc: when does the task force intend to bring back specific proposals for specific issues?

mike: I'm not sure when we will have further resolution on summary. As far as canvas... they are still working on details. I can't give a firm date.

cyns: we expect to have a proposal for summary ready for the TF next tuesday, and this should be ready for the next WG call

<MikeSmith> issue-33?

<trackbot> ISSUE-33 -- [WITHDRAWN] spec requires non-compliant Referer header -- CLOSED

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/33

<MikeSmith> action-33?

<trackbot> ACTION-33 -- Chris Wilson to investigate an HTML WG blog, a la the way the I18N WG does it -- due 2008-02-05 -- CLOSED

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/33



<trackbot> ISSUE-32 -- how to provide a summary of a table, e.g. for unsighted navigation? -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/32

<MikeSmith> actually, it seems it's issue 32

<MikeSmith> issue-32?

<trackbot> ISSUE-32 -- how to provide a summary of a table, e.g. for unsighted navigation? -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/32

cyns: any member who is interested in this topic should watch the tf mailing list

paulc: it would help with confidence once we start seeing results.... it would also help to give people more heads up.
... thank you to the TF

MichaelC: We have gone into bugzilla, and grouped them into related bugs, and would like to be able to do 5-10 bugs per week

<paulc> A11Y F2F will be Apr 6-7 in UK

Michaelc: We plan to have a F2F meeting in early April, and progress will accelerate after that meeting

paulc: any other comments?

action 170 is due in 2 weeks

<trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - 170

action-170 due in 2 weeks

<trackbot> ACTION-170 Update A11Y timeline for tracker related issues due date now in 2 weeks

paulc: action 138 and action 173 needs new dates

laura: action 173 is done

close action-173, the change proposal is now in the hands of the task force

close action-173

<trackbot> ACTION-173 Update Change Proposal for ISSUE-31 missing-alt closed

cyns: action-138 is a long term work item

action-137 due in 1 month

<trackbot> ACTION-137 Update IRI spec based on comments to Public-IRI (Including those from HTML-WG members), due date now in 1 month

action-137 due in 1 month

<trackbot> ACTION-137 Update IRI spec based on comments to Public-IRI (Including those from HTML-WG members), due date now in 1 month

<masinter> action-137?

<trackbot> ACTION-137 -- Larry Masinter to update IRI spec based on comments to Public-IRI (Including those from HTML-WG members), -- due 2009-10-21 -- CLOSED

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/137

<masinter> action-137 is closed

action-138 due in 1 month

<trackbot> ACTION-138 Produce an ARIA matrix based on Henri's work due date now in 1 month

kris: as the a11y tf brings forward proposals, it would be useful if they would also identify instances where test cases are required

cyns: we are not quite there yet

11. Discussion Items

paulc: we are continuing to discuss F2F meeting with other chairs and are looking at a date in April and are well aware of the feedback on the public-html list

cyns: looking for hosts?

paulc: we have several offers, so that is not a concern.

Scribe for next meeting

Paulc volunteers to scribe

masinter: re: the F2F, are you accepting suggestions for agenda items?

paulc: post suggestions to the list

masinter: a prioritized list of issues on which we haven't made progress would be a good place to start

paulc: we seem to be making good progress, people are welcome to propose specific issues
... it is highly unlikely that we will be making decisions at a F2F

masinter: I'm not tracking all of the issues that are open

paulc: I understand the criteria
... any other comments
... adjourned

'trackbot, publish minutes

trackbot, publish minutes

<trackbot> Sorry, rubys, I don't understand 'trackbot, publish minutes'. Please refer to http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc for help

Summary of Action Items

[End of minutes]

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Possibly Present: Andrew12 Apple CIA-1 CfC Cynthia_Shelly Dashiva Eliot_Graff Hixie ISSUE-83 Julian Lachy Laura Mark Michael_Cooper Michaelc Microsoft Mike MikeSmith PaulC Philip ROBOd Radhika_Roy Sam Shunsuke Yudai aa aaaa aabb aacc adrianba anne aroben arronei bryan_sullivan cyns drry dsinger dsinger_ ed_work franko gavin gavin_ gsnedders hober hsivonen html-wg inimino jgraham jmb johndrinkwater joined karl kliehm krijnh kris krisk larry mamund masinter miketaylr mjs paul_irish plh rubys sbublava shepazu syp tH tlr trackbot uoting webben
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Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-wg-announce/2010JanMar/0012.html

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Found Date: 11 Feb 2010
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2010/02/11-html-wg-minutes.html
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